5000 series drawbar capacity???

[kentuckydiesel]

I found out the other day that the drawbar capacity on my '95 5200 is only 1600-1700lbs. I thought it odd that they made the drawbar this weak, especially considering the 3pt hitch is rated for something like 3400lbs.

Did Deere ever offer a high-capacity drawbar kit for the 5200?

As the tractor is set up to be over 8' wide for my hilly ground, I really need at least a 10' mower...but 10'+ solid deck mowers are terrible to run on uneven terrain. If I get into a 12'+ batwing, I am going to need more drawbar capacity as only the lightest of the light batwings have 1700lb or lower drawbar weight.

I will have my tractor making around 75hp soon (set up like the 5400 which is the same basic tractor with small changes such as fuel system adjustments and a turbo), so hp is a non issue. Between the ballast and the loader, the tractor weighs in at over 8000lbs, plus it now has 10 ply rear tires on it, so weight (aside from the low drawbar capacity) won't be a problem either.

I guess if deere didn't make any higher capacity drawbar kits, I'll have to build my own. Anyone have any input on this subject?

Thanks,
Phillip

 

[buickanddeere]

That is static weight pressing down on the drawbar in situations such a single axle trailer loaded front heavy. Draft load on the drawbar is as much as the tractor can pull.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

That is static weight pressing down on the drawbar in situations such a single axle trailer loaded front heavy. Draft load on the drawbar is as much as the tractor can pull.

That is correct. I am referring to vertical static load. The 5000 series has a low (in my mind) static load capacity, to the point that just about any batwing mower would "overload" the drawbar according to deere specs.

Man, if the drawbar on the 5000 series couldn't pull more than 1700lbs, I would just hang it up!

-Phillip

 

[cowski]

i pull a bush hog 15 ft cutter with my 5510 john deere. never had a drawbar problem.same drawbar as 5200.

 

[Verticaltrx]

IMO, the 'lightest of light' batwings are all you should be considering behind that size tractor. Either one of these new, small 12' models or a 10' with a single wing. The big 15' units are more suited to a 6000/7000 series size tractor that can handle the drawbar weight (and have the hp to run it.) We have a 15' woods batwing and I wouldn't want to try to use it with our 2550 Deere, which is an all around bigger tractor than a 5x00 series. IMO it sounds like you are expecting too much from a small utility tractor.

 

[vtsnowedin]

OK let's consider this question?
If you over load the draw bar on a tractor with a excessive vertical load what fails? Or how do you find out you've gone too far? Do the rear tires pop? does the draw bar snap off of the tractor frame? Does the front end get light or come off the ground. Does The excessive weight push the rear tires into the ground so hard that the engine can't turn them?
Your answer is??

 

[jd110]

OK let's consider this question?
If you over load the draw bar on a tractor with a excessive vertical load what fails? Or how do you find out you've gone too far? Do the rear tires pop? does the draw bar snap off of the tractor frame? Does the front end get light or come off the ground. Does The excessive weight push the rear tires into the ground so hard that the engine can't turn them?
Your answer is??

The answer to all of the above can be Yes!. The immediate danger is failure of the drawbar or drawbar support. The tire capacity is probably well above drawbar capacity depending on tire equipment. The front end could get light, but with extra front ballast, that is probably not an issue. Horsepower is not an issue. The drawbar or support will probably not fail for short term, occasional overloading, but constant overloading or even short term grossly overloading it will cause failure. I have seen it many times over the years. Not necessarily on 5000 series, but on any model. The manufacturers put limits on the capacities for a reason. Some models do offer heavier duty options, but none are listed for the 5000 or 5010 series. The 5025 series does offer a heavy duty drawbar option. The standard duty is the same part as the 5000, 5010, and 5020 series, so I assume the heavy drawbar will also fit earlier models. Not sure of weight rating though. Will try to look it up.

 

[cowski]

larger jd 5000 series pull 15 ft cutters all the time.the standard drawbar is plenty.a medium duty 15 ft cutter weighs around 4000 lbs this would put about 1400 lbs on the drawbar.that is way under max drawbar rating.max drawbar rating is 2470 lbs.the heaviest 15ft landpride cutter rcb6615 weighs 5738 lbs with a hitch weight of 1842 lbs and with a minimum of 50 pto horsepower.well within jd 5000 specs.landpride specifications taken from their literature.jd drawbar specifications taken from operators manual.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

IMO, the 'lightest of light' batwings are all you should be considering behind that size tractor. Either one of these new, small 12' models or a 10' with a single wing. The big 15' units are more suited to a 6000/7000 series size tractor that can handle the drawbar weight (and have the hp to run it.) We have a 15' woods batwing and I wouldn't want to try to use it with our 2550 Deere, which is an all around bigger tractor than a 5x00 series. IMO it sounds like you are expecting too much from a small utility tractor.

Actually, with the exception of the 2550 being an older (and therefore heavier) tractor and having a 4cyl because 3cyl wasn't used yet...it is very comparable to the 5000 series. Ballasted weight is about 8400lbs, about the same as my tractor. HP is around 65, about the same as my tractor. One thing that does stand out is the 2550's 3pt capacity is about 1000lbs less than the 5000 series.

OK let's consider this question?
If you over load the draw bar on a tractor with a excessive vertical load what fails? Or how do you find out you've gone too far? does the draw bar snap off of the tractor frame?

Yes, the drawbar can snap off, but that is hardly a major issue...especially since I am trying to find out how Deere or others have increased capacity prior to going past that part's load limit. BTW, capacity of the drawbar at short setting is about 2500lbs, but most mower manufacturers specify a longer drawbar setting.

Do the rear tires pop?

Haha...absolutely not. Rears are 10ply 18.4-26 (think high capacity).

Does the front end get light or come off the ground.

Say what? People who actually use tractors use ballast. I have 1400lbs of suitcase weights to ballast as needed. For the often heavy loader work I do, I have about 650lbs of liquid ballast in each rear, along with about 1500lbs of ballast on a 3pt carrier which centers the weight about 1' behind the ends of the lower links. Works great!

Does The excessive weight push the rear tires into the ground so hard that the engine can't turn them?
Your answer is??

This is very imaginative, but no amount of weight "pushing down" on the rear tires (short of that which would blow out tires, crush the wheels themselves, or that which was too much for the tractor to physically move in the first place) would ever be so much that the engine could not turn them. Ever seen those videos of groups of people pulling jumbo jets, class 8 trucks, and train cars? It's actually pretty easy to move rolling weight. This tractor pulls a 14' wheel-transport disc harrow through heavy (sometimes wet) soil in 1st gear-high range with no problems. I think it has the ability to get a batwing mower moving.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I wasn't tyring to put any of those possibilities forward as good answers just cover the range of possibilities. Given that good steel today has yield strengths above 70,000 pounds per square inch I wouldn't expect the bar or the mounting bolts to snap nor would I expect tires to fail.
What I expect happens is that the weight on the bar plus the weight of the base tractor and wheel weights adds up to the maximum rated load for the rear axle and any increase above that will cause excessive wheel bearing wear up to and including wheel bearing failure.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

I wasn't tyring to put any of those possibilities forward as good answers just cover the range of possibilities. Given that good steel today has yield strengths above 70,000 pounds per square inch I wouldn't expect the bar or the mounting bolts to snap nor would I expect tires to fail.
What I expect happens is that the weight on the bar plus the weight of the base tractor and wheel weights adds up to the maximum rated load for the rear axle and any increase above that will cause excessive wheel bearing wear up to and including wheel bearing failure.

Luckily wheel/tire ballast aid in traction and stability without putting any further strain on the wheel bearings. As far as the wheel bearings are concerned, it would still be like carrying the base tractor with a sub-capacity load on the 3pt hitch.

I don't mean to be offensive toward you in any way, but I am curious to know why people on TBN seem to be so concerned with "wheel bearings". Bearings are wear items, just like brake pads/shoes, engine belts, tires, etc, etc. It especially baffles me when some folks say that they are uncomfortable or have even tipped their tractors over on small side-hills, but they won't space the wheels out because it will strain their "wheel bearings". :0

Just for fun, I just checked JD parts to see what the rear axle bearings cost. Depending on wether both outer and inner bearings/races go bad, I would be looking at $50-$90 per side. Sure beats the cost of buying a new tractor to mow with (especially since my current tractor works great for everything else).


-Phillip

 

[cowski]

i have a 5510 with the wheels set all the way out.it increases stability.i also have the cast rears with wheel weights and power reverser.it is a great tractor on a hay and cattle farm.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

i have a 5510 with the wheels set all the way out.it increases stability.i also have the cast rears with wheel weights and power reverser.it is a great tractor on a hay and cattle farm.

Sounds like a nice setup. I sure would like to have the 4cyl and power reverser.
I'm currently planning to switch my tractor over from the collar shift to the TSS tranny (changing to hydraulic reverser would force me to just about replace the whole tractor)....and if this 3cyl ever goes south, I'm gonna put the 4cyl in.

-Phillip

 

[vtsnowedin]

I don't mean to be offensive toward you in any way, but I am curious to know why people on TBN seem to be so concerned with "wheel bearings". Bearings are wear items, just like brake pads/shoes, engine belts, tires, etc, etc. It especially baffles me when some folks say that they are uncomfortable or have even tipped their tractors over on small side-hills, but they won't space the wheels out because it will strain their "wheel bearings". :0




-Phillip

None taken. I'm not too worried about bearing wear myself but it is a possible method of failure as is a broken housing or cracked rim. Much more likely then the other implausible options I put forward. The real danger is that an over loaded tractor will not be able to hold back the load going down grade and run away on the operator causing a crash. A towed load that puts more then 1600 lbs tongue weight on a draw bar probably weighs more then the tractor plus ballast and once you pitch over the top of the hill gravity is not your friend.
For myself I'm having my 5045E set out as wide as it will go with four inch hub extensions. In fact I'm waiting on sixteen bolts they didn't realise they needed to order to attach them. Beginning to have a bad feeling about this dealer. Mechanic didn't know the proper way to measure tread width so now I have to wonder what else he doesn't know and how much that will cost me.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

The real danger is that an over loaded tractor will not be able to hold back the load going down grade and run away on the operator causing a crash. A towed load that puts more then 1600 lbs tongue weight on a draw bar probably weighs more then the tractor plus ballast and once you pitch over the top of the hill gravity is not your friend.

Very true if it was a tandem or tri-axle equipment trailer with most of the weight on the trailer axles and no trailer brakes. In the case of a rotary cutter tho, their wheels are all the way to the rear which puts almost half of the total weight on the tractor itself. This is good for traction. If I were to start out with a 8000lb tractor and a 6000lb cutter, I would end up with about 11,000 lbs on the tractor's treads (which is not too much), and about 3000lbs on the cutter's wheels.

For myself I'm having my 5045E set out as wide as it will go with four inch hub extensions. In fact I'm waiting on sixteen bolts they didn't realise they needed to order to attach them. Beginning to have a bad feeling about this dealer. Mechanic didn't know the proper way to measure tread width so now I have to wonder what else he doesn't know and how much that will cost me.

I have to agree...I would be disappointed in the dealer if I ordered spacers and didn't get what I needed, but I wouldn't be concerned about the tread width deal. There is no "proper way" to measure. Most of the time people are far more worried about inside to inside measurements and/or outside to outside measurements than they are about center to center. The center to center is nothing more than a reference which covers all tire sizes.

-phillip

 

[vtsnowedin]

Very true if it was a tandem or tri-axle equipment trailer with most of the weight on the trailer axles and no trailer brakes. In the case of a rotary cutter tho, their wheels are all the way to the rear which puts almost half of the total weight on the tractor itself. This is good for traction. If I were to start out with a 8000lb tractor and a 6000lb cutter, I would end up with about 11,000 lbs on the tractor's treads (which is not too much), and about 3000lbs on the cutter's wheels.
I have to agree...I would be disappointed in the dealer if I ordered spacers and didn't get what I needed, but I wouldn't be concerned about the tread width deal. There is no "proper way" to measure. Most of the time people are far more worried about inside to inside measurements and/or outside to outside measurements than they are about center to center. The center to center is nothing more than a reference which covers all tire sizes.

-phillip

The JD manual clearly states that tread width is measured from center of tire to center of tire. that sets the standard. Every other measure is a confusion and has to be properly identified with it's pecular paramiters. If what concerns you is outside edge to outside edge you need to include the tread width of your tires. The fact that the mechanic working on setting up my tractor did not know how to properly measure this dimension leaves me to be very uneasy to say the least.

 

[cowski]

kentuckydiesel on a 15 ft cutter only about 1/3 of the cutter weight will be on the drawbar.you can look up cutter specs ,some manufacturers give the drawbar loads on their cutters.or you can weigh it .on most cutters the drawbar weight will be about a 1/3.

 

[kentuckydiesel]

The JD manual clearly states that tread width is measured from center of tire to center of tire. that sets the standard.....The fact that the mechanic working on setting up my tractor did not know how to properly measure this dimension leaves me to be very uneasy to say the least.

I realize that JD does that, but it is because each different tire size and even the same size in different tire models will have a different tread widths. The one reliable measurement across all tire sizes/models is the center of the tire tread at certain wheel settings.
That said, tractor owners, unlike John Deere, already know what size tires they have. Most of them will tell the dealer/mechanic something like "I want to widen my tractors stance as much as I can without the wheels going out past the edges of my loader bucket or my mower." The dealer will then measure outside to outside of the tires and make the wheel adjustments or get axle extensions which give the owner the outside to outside spacing they desire. Even in setting tractors up to track between crop rows, you still are most concerned with inside to inside and outside to outside measurements. Center to center is nothing more than a reference point.

-Phillip