Flail Mower Caroni TM1900 offset

   / Caroni TM1900 offset #1  

BukitCase

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,753
Location
Albany OR
Tractor
Case 580B, Long 460, Allis-Chalmers 160
Getting within hours of pulling the trigger on this unit, but need to know what the available offsets from dead center are - I have a 45 horse Long tractor that's 70" outside the rear tires, and am trying to find info (other than just pix) on offset choices. It appears that the mower offsets either "some", or "some more", but that's about all I can tell so far.

Also considering the hydraulic shift kit, but at $830 if it doesn't EXTEND the available offset I'll just set the hitch to max offset and use the $$$ for another project.

Anyone with this model, especially with shift kit, I'd appreciate any dimensions you can provide - thx... Steve
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset
  • Thread Starter
#2  
Well, almost 2 weeks without a reply - guess no one has the shift kit. Not surprising - Vernon at ASC was able to answer my above question. You don't get any MORE shift to the right using the shift kit, the kit has a total range of about 14 inches, so the ONLY reason to spend that much $$$ would be if you wanted to CENTER the mower more. My Long 460 has 70 inches outside to outside rear tires, and if I had NOT mounted the hitch for max offset it would still miss covering the left tire by about 6 inches. The shift kit would probably reduce this to zero, whereas just moving the hitch over on the standard mower only buys you about 8-9 inches shift to the left.

I just tried out the flail last night (no shift kit) and it works well, did some 3-4 foot tall grass, blackberries, some light brush, etc, no problems. Couple of places my 45 horse tractor bogged down a bit in 2nd gear (not a real low-geared tractor) - other than that, I'm pretty happy. Still need to play with pitch, etc.

One thing I was NOT happy about - apparently Caroni doesn't have a copy of the spec for 3-point hitches. No big deal if you are NOT using either an iMatch or other quick hitch, but if you ARE, here's the deal -

Some 3-point hitch info -

http://www.tractorsmart.com/main/Tractor Three Point Lift Types.htm

Note that a Cat1 hitch spec for height between draw pins and top link is 18 inches vertical - The Caroni TM1900 uses correct Cat 1 dimensions in all BUT the vertical, where they (for some unknown reason) decided to adopt the VERTICAL dimension of a Cat 2 hitch (24" instead of 18")

I wondered about this when I saw other members' pix showing a couple of flat bars and an extra pin, etc, when hooked up to the Caroni - even though there was some sort of "quick hitch" installed on the tractor. Now I know why the bars...

My goal is to utilize the Harbor Freight quick hitch for ALL implements, WITHOUT having to move the upper hook which fits my 6' Priefert tiller (with correct Cat 1 spacing) - I expected to have to modify hitches on older gear (3 bottom plow, 8" 3 point disk, back blade, etc) but was surprised that a brand new mower was nearly 7 inches OFF. Oh well, moving on -

My fix - sorry, no camera avail. just yet, I'll try to get some pix when I can -

I took two pieces of 1/2" x 3" flat bar, cut to 9" long, let them hang vertically and aligned with the top edge of the existing toplink mount - I marked the front position of the slotted hole AND the upper round hole in the top mount, clamped the bar stock temporarily in place and hooked a bungee cord between the two lower draw pins (making sure the bungee was even with the top of the pins), then measured from the bungee up 18", made a mark on the new bar stock, and made THAT the top of the new 3/4" hole for the toplink pin. I clamped both pieces together, drilled pilot holes (drill press) and then enlarged the upper two holes to 5/8" and the lower (toplink pin) hole to 3/4". Works well - I can back up to the Caroni, raise the hitch and I'm DONE except for slipping the PTO shaft onto the tractor's PTO.

One caution - whichever quick hitch you're using, carefully measure how much space there is between the forward edge of the upper hook and whatever method the hook is mounted to the hitch frame with. The HF quick hitch uses two bolts and multiple drilled holes to mount the upper hook, and these only give you about 5/8" - so your hitch pin holes need to be within 5/8" from the front edge of the hole to the front edge of the bar stock or it won't clear.

It's also a REALLY good idea to buy some Cat 1 to Cat 2 sleeves if you're using most quick hitches, otherwise there's too much slop in the hookup - especially for a driven implement like a tiller or mower. I'm putting these on each implement rather than switching them from implement to implement.

Any questions, fire away - not sure when I'll find time for pix, but if I get the same response as before it won't matter :=) Steve
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset #3  
Well, almost 2 weeks without a reply - guess no one has the shift kit. Not surprising - Vernon at ASC was able to answer my above question. You don't get any MORE shift to the right using the shift kit, the kit has a total range of about 14 inches, so the ONLY reason to spend that much $$$ would be if you wanted to CENTER the mower more. My Long 460 has 70 inches outside to outside rear tires, and if I had NOT mounted the hitch for max offset it would still miss covering the left tire by about 6 inches. The shift kit would probably reduce this to zero, whereas just moving the hitch over on the standard mower only buys you about 8-9 inches shift to the left.

I just tried out the flail last night (no shift kit) and it works well, did some 3-4 foot tall grass, blackberries, some light brush, etc, no problems. Couple of places my 45 horse tractor bogged down a bit in 2nd gear (not a real low-geared tractor) - other than that, I'm pretty happy. Still need to play with pitch, etc.

One thing I was NOT happy about - apparently Caroni doesn't have a copy of the spec for 3-point hitches. No big deal if you are NOT using either an iMatch or other quick hitch, but if you ARE, here's the deal -

Some 3-point hitch info -

http://www.tractorsmart.com/main/Tractor Three Point Lift Types.htm

Note that a Cat1 hitch spec for height between draw pins and top link is 18 inches vertical - The Caroni TM1900 uses correct Cat 1 dimensions in all BUT the vertical, where they (for some unknown reason) decided to adopt the VERTICAL dimension of a Cat 2 hitch (24" instead of 18")

I wondered about this when I saw other members' pix showing a couple of flat bars and an extra pin, etc, when hooked up to the Caroni - even though there was some sort of "quick hitch" installed on the tractor. Now I know why the bars...

My goal is to utilize the Harbor Freight quick hitch for ALL implements, WITHOUT having to move the upper hook which fits my 6' Priefert tiller (with correct Cat 1 spacing) - I expected to have to modify hitches on older gear (3 bottom plow, 8" 3 point disk, back blade, etc) but was surprised that a brand new mower was nearly 7 inches OFF. Oh well, moving on -

My fix - sorry, no camera avail. just yet, I'll try to get some pix when I can -

I took two pieces of 1/2" x 3" flat bar, cut to 9" long, let them hang vertically and aligned with the top edge of the existing toplink mount - I marked the front position of the slotted hole AND the upper round hole in the top mount, clamped the bar stock temporarily in place and hooked a bungee cord between the two lower draw pins (making sure the bungee was even with the top of the pins), then measured from the bungee up 18", made a mark on the new bar stock, and made THAT the top of the new 3/4" hole for the toplink pin. I clamped both pieces together, drilled pilot holes (drill press) and then enlarged the upper two holes to 5/8" and the lower (toplink pin) hole to 3/4". Works well - I can back up to the Caroni, raise the hitch and I'm DONE except for slipping the PTO shaft onto the tractor's PTO.

One caution - whichever quick hitch you're using, carefully measure how much space there is between the forward edge of the upper hook and whatever method the hook is mounted to the hitch frame with. The HF quick hitch uses two bolts and multiple drilled holes to mount the upper hook, and these only give you about 5/8" - so your hitch pin holes need to be within 5/8" from the front edge of the hole to the front edge of the bar stock or it won't clear.

It's also a REALLY good idea to buy some Cat 1 to Cat 2 sleeves if you're using most quick hitches, otherwise there's too much slop in the hookup - especially for a driven implement like a tiller or mower. I'm putting these on each implement rather than switching them from implement to implement.

Any questions, fire away - not sure when I'll find time for pix, but if I get the same response as before it won't matter :=) Steve




I wish to welcome you as the newest member of the Flail Mower Nation.

Agrissupply has sold the shift kit for the flail mowers(the owners may not have seen your posting)

Please send me a PM via the forum here and I can forward PDF copies of the parts manuals
and owners manuals for your mower( the manuals cover the entire Caroni mower line) to your
provatre e-mail as the TBN message board does not have that much room in its mail message server.


The owners and parts manuals show the mower shift in great detail and in Millimeters of coverage.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

Only 17,989 mowers to go
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset #4  
I cannot upload the Side shift Kit PDF for you as it is too large, pleae send me a PM with your e-mail and I will send it to you shortly if you would like to have the two page PDF.

At position Zero(0) the side shift kit has 450 Millimeters of side shift (17.165 inches),
and at position two(2) the side shift kit has 800 Millimeters of side shift(31.4960 inche)
you have lots of side shift at position two.
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Leon, sorry it took so long to reply, been really busy. Thanks for your kind offer of info, but I'm pretty sure I have everything you mentioned - I downloaded the shift kit PDF from Caroni's site some time ago before I bought the TM1900, and Agri-supply sent me some english version of a "user and maintenance manual" that's a whopping 13 pages that appear to have been translated by Babel-fish or equivalent (usable, but not "english as a first language") - if you think you have different info, let me know and we can PM as necessary. Again, thanks

As to info on the shift kit, I spoke to Vernon, a tech at Agri-supply, before I ordered - he said that the shift kit wouldn't give any more side shift than using the second position for the hitch. After mounting the mower (as described in my first post) I found that the approximate 14" of travel allowed by the shift kit according to Caroni's PDF breaks down as follows - The two positions of the stock hitch are approximately 7 inches apart, and the shift kit's 14" gives you 3 more inches to the right than the MORE offset fixed position, and 4 more inches to the left than the LESS offset (fixed) position.

Although this option would be nice, it isn't worth nearly $900 to me at this time. For a bit less than that, I can buy the hydraulics necessary to build a wood splitter attachment for my Case backhoe ( I already have the steel)

Check out a similar design here

Excavator Wood Splitter - YouTube

Besides having better uses for the money than a shift kit, I'm "remote poor" on the old Long tractor - only one remote, and wanting top/tilt plus a third for the hydraulic powered rippers on my 7 foot Gannon box scraper. Starting to scheme on a power beyond source on this old tractor, wish me luck.

For now, I'm leaving the flail set on max offset, since neither position (with or without the shift kit) allows the mower to cover ALL the left rear tire anyway. This gives me 55 inches offset, which extends the cut to nearly 24 inches beyond the right rear tire... Steve
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset #6  
Hello Steve,

Please send me your E-mail via the message board and I will E-mail the ACTUAL Caroni PDF manuals to you and
more information on the shift kit do you have it if you would like it.
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset #7  
the main reason i wanted the off set on a flail that was wider than my tractor was to keep the belt housing just behind the right hand back tire for protection which leaves the left side extendedout to reach past the width of the right hand tire. If it had a hydraulic side shift it would serve me best mostly for loading on trailers where you dont want the mower extending out over the side of the trailer.
 
   / Caroni TM1900 offset
  • Thread Starter
#8  
8404, I'm not sure on your Kioti (if that's what you are using) but on my Long 460 the outside tire dimension is 70 inches - at that dimension, if I were to use the less offset position of the fixed hitch, the belt housing would be almost exactly flush with the side of the left tire - in the max offset position it's well behind the tire.

At this time I don't forsee trailering with the mower on, but you raise a good point in favor of the shift kit -

If your tractor is narrower than mine, having the shift kit might allow mowing to cover BOTH rear wheels - mine does NOT, and wouldn't quite do that even WITH the shift kit - see my measurements in previous post.

If this

TractorData.com Kioti DK40 tractor dimensions information

is your tractor, you may find using the TM1900 will have you in first gear if you mow 3-4 foot high grass - mine has about 42 HP at the PTO and was bogging down in 2nd gear. (Disclaimer - this was first test, and afterward I kicked some of the mulch aside and discovered that the factory shipping settings may be a bit low :=) - it seems I may have been attempting to slightly "rototill" instead of just mowing)

I've since re-adjusted the rear roller, but haven't tried it to see if one notch was enough - I got rained out during the "maiden voyage", and it's just now drying out enough for a second try. I also had some issues with the original toplink and haven't put the new one on yet (couldn't get the old one to adjust)

When I get time I'll get some new measurements, but I'm guessing that the overall width of the 1900 including belt housing, etc, is around 77-78 inches, and if you're wanting to trailer it the shift kit may be a good idea.

Not sure how much offset the PTO shaft can take, but with the wider mower it may even be possible to replace the kit's hydraulic cylinder with a longer stroke model to get a bit more than 14" total shift - the factory manuals' idea of "english" leaves a bit to be desired :=)...Steve
 
 

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