How would you handle this neighbor issue?

[Robert_in_NY]

We bought another farm over the winter and have been spending a lot of time there working and fixing the place up. Most of the houses around there are rentals and that is ok. The people have no say in anything so they don't bother us. The other neighbor is the widow of the guy who we bought the farm from and she still farms a smaller area. She is a great lady and is always happy to help when ever she can. But the neighbor on the opposite side has one horse, a half mile horse track, lives in a trailer and owns just under 20 acres with a few small barns on their property. Their trailer is on the opposite side of their property from our border.

About a month ago I was plowing behind the vineyard where I am going to expand the vineyard and the neighbor lady with the horse walks over to talk to me and my father (who just arrived to check on things). Her purpose of coming over to talk is to tell us we can't open up a ditch on our property because the previous owner did supposedly and it flooded the back of their property (all the land slopes to the back of their property). At the time I was plowing and we were not doing any ditch work but she made sure we knew she had a lawyer and she wouldn't be afraid to use him if we did anything she didn't like (very personable exchange).

Fast forward to today and I am on the boundry with my excavator working on digging out stumps along the road and piling pine limbs. There is a shallow swale along the boundry that I would like to clean out as I have water standing on the headland of the vineyard and would like to give it a better path away. As I was working on the stumps I see this ladies husband start mowing over towards me. He mows around the outside blowing the clippings in towards his property. I wave to him as he keeps going and he waves back. So I decide I want to verify the boundry and discuss my idea with him so that they would be included in the decision process and hopefully avoid any hard feelings. When I see him mowing towards me on his second pass around I shut down and hop out of the excavator and stand right on the edge of his first pass waiting for him so that I could introduce myself and talk with him. As he gets up to me he sees me standing there and I wave to him, his mower deck has the deflector propped up so the clippings shoot up high in the air. Anytime I see someone standing next to where I am working I stop. Well this guy says something to me as he gets close and I couldn't hear what he said over his mower but he never stopped and went right past me blowing grass clippings all over me in the process as I stood 3' away from him looking directly at him trying to be neighborly. He continued on his way and never looked back

I found it extremely rude and actually dangerous what he did and it made me mad. I wanted to try and do the right thing and discuss and include the neighbors with boundry decisions that benifit/affect both of us. I am going to call a surveyor this week and see when they can mark that boundry for me. When its marked I am going to decide my options at that point but am I wrong in feeling upset with these neighbors? The wife introduces herself just to tell me what I "can't" do on my land and the husband blows grass all over me without even stopping. Any thoughts on how I should handle or should have handled it? I keep trying to look at things from their perspective and to a point I could understand where the wife was coming from but I don't know the particulars of what happened as it was quite a few years ago but the husband just baffles me as I can't see any reason how anyone could intentionally blow grass clippings on a person standing 3' away from them on the boundry while making eye contact.

 

[MasseyWV]

she made sure we knew she had a lawyer and she wouldn't be afraid to use him if we did anything she didn't like

this guy says something to me as he gets close and I couldn't hear what he said over his mower but he never stopped and went right past me blowing grass clippings all over me in the process as I stood 3' away from him looking directly at him trying to be neighborly. He continued on his way and never looked back

I hate to say this, but it sounds like you have the neighbors from heII, and it will probably only get worse with time. Your land is their land, or so they think. Been there, done that.

Personally, I think you should get your land surveyed, and avoid them at all costs. Anything you say or do, is likely to be used against you. Even if you do nothing wrong, I guarantee you they will probably twist it so it sounds like you did. Beware!

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Actually your neighbor gave you valuable information - that they are antisocial and possibly litigious. Don't expect a leopard to change his spots and keep this in mind when dealing with them in the future.

I would just ignore the mower insult, and not attempt to engage them on their property. Find out what the law in your state is on common boundaries and fences, and proceed to do what is legal. Document thoroughly with photos and video. It might be a good idea to go to the courthouse and see if they actually filed a lawsuit about the water. They may be bluffing.

When someone tells me they have a lawyer, I always say "oh good, who is it and would you like for me to confer with him/her regarding any legal issues?" If they won't tell you who their lawyer is, they are probably lying. It doesn't cost anything to say you have a lawyer, and often times they are too cheap to hire one.

 

[k0ua]

In my opinion they are angry that you are there and wish you would go away. Not anything you did, they just don't want any neighbor there. They were pretty rude by almost any standards.


James K0UA

 

[rekees4300]

Any thoughts on how I should handle or should have handled it?

The best way to deal with idiots is to avoid them. On your property you have the right to do as you please so long as you don't break any laws.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I didn't actually go on their land. From what I can tell he is mowing up onto my ground actually. His wife walked onto my ground to talk to me as well. I know I can't intentionally divert water onto their property and I have no intentions of doing such, I just wanted to be nice and try to be freindly and hopefully help them with the ditch at the same time. The ditch can benifit both properties and will actually benifit both. But it looks like I just need to survey it and do what I am legally able to on my own property and maybe put a fence up along the boundry. I don't really want to dig a ditch and have the guy intentionally blow grass clippings into it. I may just tile it.

 

[Little_Grizzly]

I gotta tell ya... very few people can afford to "have a lawyer". In fact, it's rarely done these days. 'Having' a lawyer means you have him on retainer. You're paying all the time to keep his attention. If they mean they 'have the name of a lawyer' well... we all do. It's called the phone book.

 

[k0ua]

I gotta tell ya... very few people can afford to "have a lawyer". In fact, it's rarely done these days. 'Having' a lawyer means you have him on retainer. You're paying all the time to keep his attention. If they mean they 'have the name of a lawyer' well... we all do. It's called the phone book.

Reminds me of Kim Darby "little Mattie" in the original True Grit. and always threatening people with her lawyer J. Noble Dagget

Strother Martin-the horse dealer: "she pulls him like a gun!" :laughing:

James K0UA

 

[MasseyWV]

I didn't actually go on their land.

If you had, there's no telling what might have happened.

From what I can tell he is mowing up onto my ground actually. His wife walked onto my ground to talk to me as well.

Further proof that they think they own and control your land.

The ditch can benifit both properties and will actually benifit both.

Anti-social people don't care what benefits anyone else, they are only interested in themselves, and want everyone else to simply disappear.

But it looks like I just need to survey it and do what I am legally able to on my own property and maybe put a fence up along the boundry.

Smart move! And about that fence, make it a high privacy fence, if possible. It will drive them nuts not being able to watch your every move.

I don't really want to dig a ditch and have the guy intentionally blow grass clippings into it.

If you do, he will.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I gotta tell ya... very few people can afford to "have a lawyer". In fact, it's rarely done these days. 'Having' a lawyer means you have him on retainer. You're paying all the time to keep his attention. If they mean they 'have the name of a lawyer' well... we all do. It's called the phone book.

I agree, I felt she was trying to sound tough by mentioning "her" lawyer. These people don't appear to have much money so I doubt they have one on retainer. The wife did say she wants me to cut down a small locust grove because it blocks her view of the fireworks display the local winery puts on every year. She has lots of ideas for my ground I believe.

Also, I dont live there. We have 150 acres there now and are about to add another 35 acre parcel. We're going to have a Vineyard running almost the entire length of that boundary

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Reminds me of Kim Darby "little Mattie" in the original True Grit. and always threatening people with her lawyer J. Noble Dagget

Strother Martin-the horse dealer: "she pulls him like a gun!" :laughing:

James K0UA

The original true grit is a great movie.

 

[sandman2234]

I dont give rude people much leeway, always seems to come back to haunt me. Do what you need to after the survey and see if things get better. I can see the next thread title being "irate neighbor caught stealing grapes by the bushel".
Good luck with them
David from Jax

 

[Artisan]

IMO,

Use reverse physcology, send them a short hand written letter USPS
inviting them to dinner noting you want them to be happy, your distraught
over the past incounters and a sit down is requested, would your perfer
steak or chicken, please rsvp? (Include a phone number and a SASE)
Keep a copy of it,
If indeed they retain consel and do not rsvp have said copy of invite
ready to show the magistrate...ALSO, all communications (look up your
state laws) should be recorded until they settle down.

If you get a surveyor, if you find fencing way off, TEAR IT DOWN
as FAST AS YOU CAN w/o discussion.

Your honor, I bought THIS parcel, everything on said is MINE. It
is mine to do with as I please and I wanted it gone! At this time I am
moving for dismissial sir.

If you ask permission first you could be opening uyourself up to an
eminant domain suit, each state has different laws...
I have seen this method work MANY a time. If it is on YOUR PROPERTY
it matter not who put it there, rightfull you assumed it was yours,
because there was no paper at closing saying different.

I also suspect pre-existing flooding issues and there trying to make YOU
fix it by way of telling you DO NOT DO THAT then next time they get
flooded they tell the judge YOU MOVED DIRT.

PS, NEVER listen to anyone on this list! :confused2:

 

[zzvyb6]

Well I talked to MY lawyer (whom I retain for property line and easement issues), and she said that what he technically did could be viewed as an assault and battery (the battery is the unwanted intentional contact with grass clippings).

Do nothing until a surveyer places stakes (with his Mark) on the property line. Take a picture of them in place (because the other party(s) could be expected to pull them out in anger or dispute). They could have a surveyer, too put stakes in the ground, and you are not permitted to pull them out. Be suspicious of a quick survey done with GPS (even differential GPS using a ground station 'extra' locator). A Court can insist on a chains and theodalite survey done from the local point of beginning. Be prepared to have this all backfire, too: i.e. they may be right as far as property line location.

You are not allowed (in Michigan) to divert or create bodies of water that will cause a neighboring parcel to be flooded for a certain period of time in any season.

Be prepared for sour grapes :laughing:! This could cost you a LOT of money in the long run ($10,000 in my case, and I WON). A District Court judge is not interested in hearing any anecdotal evidence or claims of refused conversation. He just looked at the deeds, the surveys, the written findings of the County Drain Commissioner, some non-computer generated pictures and the history of title (going back to 1837 in my case). These commenst apply via Michigan law.

No lawyer wnts to go before a judeg in these cases, because they usually wind up in the Court of Appeals and those folks can use all kinds of past judgements to accept or refute the District findings (and it can make for new law via clarification). I.e. your case is never unique, so they will shoe-horn your dispute into a similar one's outcome.

Good luck. What ever you do, don't call out the Sheriff or State police, just walk away. A lot of these cases are lost because of a hot temper in front of a Deputy. (I wonder if she'll charge me for this ????)

"Good fences make for good neighbors".

 

[greasemonkeyok]

That's funny KOua, I had the mental image of an older Mattie Ross going out to confront the OP.

Great movie, also a great book with historical significance to the area where Blueriver has his place.

 

[MarkV]

Put up a fence and don't divert water on their property, end of future issues.

MarkV

 

[QRTRHRS]

Well, if nothing else works, try manure. Manure, legally applied, can make a great property barriier without a fence.

 

[IronHog]

Put up a fence and don't divert water on their property, end of future issues.

MarkV

This..........

Survey

Fence

Avoid

Visible Sidearm (I think people seeing you legally well armed on your property is one of the best things any landowner can do.....cuts down on bullies, theft, trespass, etc.)





We do a ton of land trading/dealings and never approach neighbors unless they approach us....... no contact=no conflict.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks for the replies. I have no interest in going to court over this. I'm not trying to dispute the boundry, just wanted to make sure I didn't infringe on their property. Thats the entire reason I wanted to talk to the neighbor today. There is plenty of room on the head land but if I put an open ditch there I wanted it just on my side of the boundry so that I can maintain it without any problems. I am not going to divert water onto their land, the land has a hump in the middle and the one section slopes towards the road ditch and the back section flows towards the rail road track ditch at the rear of the property. Why their property flooded is anyones guess (I would lean towards neglect) but as for my ditching and tiling I am running everything to the creeks and ditches so that the water continues flowing the natural way. I have no intentions of crossing their property or even stepping foot on it. I have no reason to. I just wanted to be a good neighbor and let them have some input into the decision just like I would do with any of my neighbors. If we both agree to something before hand there is usually a lot less hassle. Plus I don't mind helping neighbors out when I have equipment on site.

My current plan is to survey the boundry in question and from there I will decide if I am going to do an open ditch or if I will tile it. A lot will depend on where the boundry is in relation to the vineyard end posts.

As for the sheriffs or any charges those thoughts never crossed my mind. I was not hurt by the clippings (I know it could have been a different story had a stone or piece of metal hit me) and am using this rather rude act by the neighbor as a very cheap lesson to distance myself from this particular neighbor. I really don't want to put up any fence since it would serve no purpose other then to cut the wind which isn't always a good thing. Air flow in and around the vineyards is very beneficial. That is why I removed the trees along the road, putting up other trees or physical barriers doesn't really help my long term goal. I will mark the boundry with posts and keep it posted though.

Also, I am not too concerned over a couple bushels of grapes. This year is going to be a bad year (because of all the frosts we have had) and I am still expecting to have over 160 tons of grapes to take in to the processors so a couple bushels doesn't really warrant getting upset over. Plus there are vineyards on the other side of them closer to their trailer so they would really have to go out of their way to come pick mine. I would be more inclined to believe the tenants would take more grapes then anyone else.

I have been fortunate for the most part with the neighbors to our property. I was just taken back by this incident. I actually had my father and a family friend come over to try and see if we could locate a boundry marker while the guy was still mowing and he was still on that corner mowing around a barn and he would look at us and as soon as we looked at him he would look away. Even having an excavator, three guys and a truck parked right on the boundry going over maps and searching the boundry line this guy would not stop to talk to us and see what we were doing. Heck, I stop and chat with the power company guys and tree guys that maintain the high tension lines behind my house. I know what their doing but I still say hi and offer to help them if they need anything (I pulled their lowboy out after they got it stuck a couple years ago). I just can't understand the point of being rude to your neighbors for no reason. These people know we just bought this farm and are not related to the two previous owners (both had passed away). I would have looked at it as a chance for a fresh start and a potential new friend.

So I will just play nice and avoid these neighbors. Have the survey done and make sure I never cross the line. From what all you guys are saying and what my own mind keeps saying it will be the best choice as trying to talk to them most likely will only create more problems

 

[Davestc29]

In all honesty we have in a similar situation all I can say is just do your research and make sure what you do land you in trouble and if they try something as long as everything you have is straight forward your good to go, id also have the surveyor come in and make sure it accurate and put a fence faster than you can blink