Best nineties tow vehicle

[mattbatson]

I agree with most on this one. If money is an option, the diesel may be out of the question as the 5.9 cummins and 7.3 ps are bringing top dollar right now. Any big block (454/460) or V10 from this era will do you well, but they will drain your wallett on gas. I had 2 one ton 90's Chevy Duallies with the auto and 454. Went well north of 100k miles with both with no major issues. They were strong but loved fuel. I got maybe 10-11 empty, 7-8 towing.

Yes, I'm aware of the mileage

This truck will mostly sit on our land and be used to occasionally tow or haul, and maybe every once in a while a family trip where we have to tow something heavy.
I'm thinking maybe 3K miles per year usage.

So, if you figure 10mpg's compared to MAYBE 20 with a diesel, over 3K miles per year, with diesel costing more than gas, and with the cost of diesel truck being 4 or 5K more...
well...you start to see that it would take many, many years to make up that cost difference.


So, I think I'm convincing myself that gas is the way to go here...

 

[deerefan]

Yes, I'm aware of the mileage

This truck will mostly sit on our land and be used to occasionally tow or haul, and maybe every once in a while a family trip where we have to tow something heavy.
I'm thinking maybe 3K miles per year usage.

So, if you figure 10mpg's compared to MAYBE 20 with a diesel, over 3K miles per year, with diesel costing more than gas, and with the cost of diesel truck being 4 or 5K more...
well...you start to see that it would take many, many years to make up that cost difference.


So, I think I'm convincing myself that gas is the way to go here...

Agreed. If the truck will be sitting, especially in a rural environment, protect it from rodents. Don't ask me how I know. I do not feel you can go wrong with the Suburban. Heck, if it dies completely, you have close to the $4500 in parts or scrap.

 

[RobertN]

The F250 with solid front axle is good. 351 is decent. Best thing I did with my '89 F250 was dumping the "Twin I-Beam" IFS... Swapped to solid axle; night and day difference. Interestingly, the sold axle turned MUCH tighter than than the IFS... And, the front springs quit sagging. The F250/350 IFS with leaf springs really likes to sag...

The 5spd stick was not particularily strong, and 1st gear was not low; swapped mine to a granny box 4spd. real truck transmission

I would not say a F250 is great off-road. Although I had mine out many places while hunting, a full size 3/4 ton is just big.... Then again, I grew up in Jeeps; we often went places you could not even dream of taking a full size pickup. FWIW, my truck did 4-wheel much better with the solid axle; better articulation.

the 250 is a good off road truck.off road, you want to stay away from a diesel.based on your weight 351 is enough.the front end will go good down the road and it will take a beating,it will have more wear parts than a dodge.frame on the truck should be the strongest.i would buy an auto .auto is easier on the running gear.

 

[RobertN]

This is late 90's... would tow about anything.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1xzdtxqTSI]99 KENWORTH W900L LOUD JAKE BRAKES - YouTube[/ame]

 

[mattbatson]

The F250 with solid front axle is good. 351 is decent. Best thing I did with my '89 F250 was dumping the "Twin I-Beam" IFS... Swapped to solid axle; night and day difference. Interestingly, the sold axle turned MUCH tighter than than the IFS... And, the front springs quit sagging. The F250/350 IFS with leaf springs really likes to sag...

The 5spd stick was not particularily strong, and 1st gear was not low; swapped mine to a granny box 4spd. real truck transmission

I would not say a F250 is great off-road. Although I had mine out many places while hunting, a full size 3/4 ton is just big.... Then again, I grew up in Jeeps; we often went places you could not even dream of taking a full size pickup. FWIW, my truck did 4-wheel much better with the solid axle; better articulation.

Ok, thx
so I would stay away from the IFS then....

So the 5 spd isnt "towing tough" on the ford's?

think the 351 is torquey enough for towing?

thx

 

[boxygen]

Hey, on the dodge, the tranny was rebuilt by Massdiesel up in maryland. I basically told them to make it bulletproof ...I dont remember all they did, but do remember the two items mentioned.

My buddies is for certain the vortec 454. 100% certain. So it must be a 96?

I drove it and it is very fast and very torquey

He has the huge towing rear brake drums (RV drums or some such?), and they are easily the biggest drums I have ever seen. I dont know if this makes any difference, but he has had no brake problems since he has had it over 8 yrs now. We are best friends, and I have helped him work on it a couple of times...

I was going to say that 95 was the last year of the TBI which was good and bad. Good, they are dead realiable and dirt cheap to buy parts for. Essentially the last of the simple trucks. They made crap for power but made up for it in simplicity and reliability. Me and my dad and mom are both hanging on by dear life to our 95 chevy's for that reason. They became a little more complicated every year after that, but made more power and had other benefits. Sounds like you have the vortech though, they were pretty good too. THe only known problem I think they had was intake seals would go but that isnt a terribly difficult repair to make. Im a big fan of the 90's GMs but there are other good options too cummins and 7.3 powerstroke being the best if power is a concern. If you want something that can be maintained extremely cheaply and easily the Burban is a good option for you. The diesels wont be as cheap or simple to maintain most likely.

 

[ultrarunner]

My neighbor that earns his living traversing California with a 24' tag trailer has owned many vehicles over the years... all bought new.

He said, hands down the best so far was his 99 Ford Excursion with Diesel... zero problems and very comfortable plus room for passengers and gear inside.

His newer vehicles had more power... they also have had serious issues... both gas and diesel... all covered under warranty...

 

[RobertN]

My 5spd went out at 175k, and was VERY expensive to rebuild/replace.

I hauled an really heavy 11' cabover camper all over the western states and part of BC/Alberta with that 351.

Ok, thx
so I would stay away from the IFS then....

So the 5 spd isnt "towing tough" on the ford's?

think the 351 is torquey enough for towing?

thx

 

[jeffsw6]

My buddies is for certain the vortec 454. 100% certain. So it must be a 96?

If it is a Vortec, buy it. $4800 is IMO a fair price since you know he has taken good care of it. I think it will have vortec stamped into the heads. If you check the RPO sticker in the glove compartment, it will have code L29.

THe only known problem I think they had was intake seals would go but that isnt a terribly difficult repair to make.

The valve cover gasket all leak eventually also.

 

[cowski]

The F250 with solid front axle is good. 351 is decent. Best thing I did with my '89 F250 was dumping the "Twin I-Beam" IFS... Swapped to solid axle; night and day difference. Interestingly, the sold axle turned MUCH tighter than than the IFS... And, the front springs quit sagging. The F250/350 IFS with leaf springs really likes to sag...

The 5spd stick was not particularily strong, and 1st gear was not low; swapped mine to a granny box 4spd. real truck transmission

I would not say a F250 is great off-road. Although I had mine out many places while hunting, a full size 3/4 ton is just big.... Then again, I grew up in Jeeps; we often went places you could not even dream of taking a full size pickup. FWIW, my truck did 4-wheel much better with the solid axle; better articulation.

whew! i feel just opposite, first i understood we were talking about 3/4 ton pickups do you think gmc or dodge go any better? off road the twin i beam can carry more speed than a solid axle.i use a 3/4 ton truck to catch and doctor cattle,solid axles will break off.the later models twin i beam is heavier. as far as a stick it is the same brand as the gmc which are a step above a dodge [5th gear falls off].i had 5spd ford with about 300,000 on it when i sold it.i would get a auto anyway.i like the 351 ,it is strong enough to pull a 20,000 lb trailer full of hay to the barn or a 14000 lb cattle trailer to the sale barn.if going further get a diesel.empty the mileage is good for a 3/4 ton gas. for me, i like the twin i beam robertn has a point about a solid axle being cheaper to run.if you want a solid axle,get a single rear wheel 350.

 

[RobertN]

I have never broken a solid axle, in a Jeep on Rubicon, or pickup out hunting. I broke a Ford F250 IFS working on my 5 acres though...

I thought the Twin I-Beam rode fine. But

Both of the ones I had sagged like crazy. And, I see that all the time looking at F250/350 with that front end, and the leaf springs. The leaf springs do not work as well/last when the axle pivots on an arc from the center attach point. It wears the springs too much. The system works much better on the F150 with coil springs.

When I switched my F250 long bed extended cab to a straight axle, it went from turning like the Queen Mary to turning on a dime. I was shocked by the huge difference in turning radius, shocked... And, very happy.

The IFS in the F250 was a hybridized Dana-44, the Dana 50. The Dana 60 straight front axle is a lot beefier. I had the IFS apart to replace broken axle shafts; it was definitely weaker than the beefy Dana-60.

The Sterling rear axle in the Ford is a good strong axle.

I was never excited by the GM IFS. Rode nice, but sat low and limited articulation.

Mine had the ZF 5-speed. Not a very strong tranny, and 1st gear was more car like as compared to a creeper first gear.

Which 5spd are you referring to? The NV4500 was a great tranny.

whew! i feel just opposite, first i understood we were talking about 3/4 ton pickups do you think gmc or dodge go any better? off road the twin i beam can carry more speed than a solid axle.i use a 3/4 ton truck to catch and doctor cattle,solid axles will break off.the later models twin i beam is heavier. as far as a stick it is the same brand as the gmc which are a step above a dodge [5th gear falls off].i had 5spd ford with about 300,000 on it when i sold it.i would get a auto anyway.i like the 351 ,it is strong enough to pull a 20,000 lb trailer full of hay to the barn or a 14000 lb cattle trailer to the sale barn.if going further get a diesel.empty the mileage is good for a 3/4 ton gas. for me, i like the twin i beam robertn has a point about a solid axle being cheaper to run.if you want a solid axle,get a single rear wheel 350.

 

[RDrancher]

99 F-350 crew cab 7.3 PSD can't beat it room and power:thumbsup:

Yep. I tow about 11K with an early '99 (smaller turbo), 4x4 crew cab everyday. This thing just won't die! It has about 280,000 miles on it right now. The trans was the achilles heel, but once I found a good trans guy it's been an awesome truck. I've had a Hypertech programmer installed at the top setting since 90K. Excellent power...although I've always been partial to the Cummins and styling of the late 90's Dodge. Go figure.

I did have a '91 Chevy dually with a 454. Most comfortable truck I ever owned. I loved that truck and the big block, but no way could it hold a candle to the pulling power of the Powerstroke.

I have never broken a solid axle, in a Jeep on Rubicon, or pickup out hunting.

Wow Robert, I think I just coughed up a little dust from the Little Sluice. Man I miss that trail!

 

[mattbatson]

I was going to say that 95 was the last year of the TBI which was good and bad. Good, they are dead realiable and dirt cheap to buy parts for. Essentially the last of the simple trucks. They made crap for power but made up for it in simplicity and reliability. Me and my dad and mom are both hanging on by dear life to our 95 chevy's for that reason. They became a little more complicated every year after that, but made more power and had other benefits. Sounds like you have the vortech though, they were pretty good too. THe only known problem I think they had was intake seals would go but that isnt a terribly difficult repair to make. Im a big fan of the 90's GMs but there are other good options too cummins and 7.3 powerstroke being the best if power is a concern. If you want something that can be maintained extremely cheaply and easily the Burban is a good option for you. The diesels wont be as cheap or simple to maintain most likely.

I tell ya, the big block in my buddies burban feels every bit as powerful as my ole cummins...and my cummins wasnt completely stock either.
really impressive power out of that motor.
And yes, the maintenance on a diesel is more involved/costly (the water filter on the cummins was a ***** to get to)...plus the fuel is about 30 cents more expensive per gallon.

I imagine there might be a cure for the intake seals on the vortec...maybe an upgrade that reduces your problems with them?

what is your experience with the transmissions?

 

[mattbatson]

My neighbor that earns his living traversing California with a 24' tag trailer has owned many vehicles over the years... all bought new.

He said, hands down the best so far was his 99 Ford Excursion with Diesel... zero problems and very comfortable plus room for passengers and gear inside.

His newer vehicles had more power... they also have had serious issues... both gas and diesel... all covered under warranty...

I had looked at the excursions...but they are all over 11K or so.
also, they had their fair share of problems...I read that the steering boxes go out, along with the ball joints and some other things at way under 60 or 70K miles...
but I imagine the trannies and engines are pretty bulletproof.

but is the excursion worth 5 or 6 or 7K over the suburban?

 

[mattbatson]

If it is a Vortec, buy it. $4800 is IMO a fair price since you know he has taken good care of it. I think it will have vortec stamped into the heads. If you check the RPO sticker in the glove compartment, it will have code L29.


The valve cover gasket all leak eventually also.

thx
I'm beginning to think you may be right....perhaps that is the best vehicle for the price for me

 

[cowski]

on my farm we have broken a solid axle off twice.once broke the spring hangers off and once broke the lower ball joints off. i almost forgot about when the pipe came out of the chunk.you are right about the shorter turning radius on the solid axles.the 90s model 350s have solid fronts.where did your dana 50 or 44 axle shaft break? i never broke a axle shaft but have other parts. the 50 axles are heavier.the sagging is due to weakening springs and the bushings wearing on the pivot point.it is more maintenance on a twin i beam. i forgot about there being 2 different stick transmissions in those trucks.i had the heavy one.i got 2 jeeps in the barn never broke a front axle off them either.i always keep a old truck to use off road and catch cattle with,i have had the best results with twin i beam trucks.

 

[jeffsw6]

but is the excursion worth 5 or 6 or 7K over the suburban?

Depends on what you want. The Excursion is heavier, a little more roomy, with the 7.3 it will certainly tow with more confidence. Do you really want to pay a bunch more for a work truck? It does not seem like you plan on driving it that much or care about creature comforts.

I do not think the Ford V10 will compare favorably to the Vortec 454 and the smaller gas engine is not in the same class.

 

[mattbatson]

Depends on what you want. The Excursion is heavier, a little more roomy, with the 7.3 it will certainly tow with more confidence. Do you really want to pay a bunch more for a work truck? It does not seem like you plan on driving it that much or care about creature comforts.

I do not think the Ford V10 will compare favorably to the Vortec 454 and the smaller gas engine is not in the same class.

creature comforts are somewhat important.
I want working a/c and comfortable seats...but I dont need navigation, for instance.
I currently own four vehicles.
As a result, no single vehicle gets driven the national average of 12K miles per year.
They all get about 3-6K miles per year, even with the daily 35 mile roundtrip commute to work...due to the fact that the same car isnt driven all the time.

They are all used, and we have no car payments....and if one breaks down, I have three spares.
Yes, I've had two break down at the same time :laughing:

I'm not sure how much the excursion weighs, but I bet it aint that much more than the suburban...and I bet the tow capacity of that burban is pretty close too

 

[BTI]

For your uses, the 'burban would be the best bet.
It's the combination of cheap to buy and power that you are looking for.
There may be others better, but they will be more expensive.


BTI

 

[mattbatson]

For your uses, the 'burban would be the best bet.
It's the combination of cheap to buy and power that you are looking for.
There may be others better, but they will be more expensive.


BTI

agreed.
I love a pickup bed for just throwing stuff in when needed.

but I cant get over how much **** room is in that suburban...

I think my mind is made up,

thx everyone