Small Field Mowing Business?

[Jamming]

If your a illegal immigrant you can run your business free in Washington state and under bid every job and make 200k a year.

If you have a green card and hire only illegal employees it's tax free and insurance free. Really great place to mow lawns with 80" of precip a year.

Offer cash only discounts and keep your yearly income low enough you can get federal assistance and free housing. American Dream.

 

[bucktaker]

FWJ
Please dont assume any and all small operators are operating illegally. As you said its a matter of scale and i see nothing wrong with guy picking up a few odd jobs with his equipment. I do claim income and expenses of tractor related work to help justify to the tax collectors why I have the equipment I do. Not all of us are blessed to live and work on a farm...some have to pretend....have a good one..

 

[Farmwithjunk]

FWJ
Please dont assume any and all small operators are operating illegally. As you said its a matter of scale and i see nothing wrong with guy picking up a few odd jobs with his equipment. I do claim income and expenses of tractor related work to help justify to the tax collectors why I have the equipment I do. Not all of us are blessed to live and work on a farm...some have to pretend....have a good one..

Don't worry about that....I'm not assuming anything. But I do know personally, TWO "legal" smaller operators in this area, and more than 20 who mow "off the books" "under the table" and haul with passenger tags on their tow vehicles. It's far more common that not for smaller operators to be skirting legal requirements as a matter of economics.

One I know who WAS operating illegally is having his equipment and much of his personal property auctioned off week after next to satisfy a judgement against him for a relatively minor accident while towing to a job.

Ask him it it's worth it.....

 

[crashz]

FWJ - I'll be directly competing with you! Watch out, cause here comes 24 raging horse power and the biggest mower it will pull (60 inch brush hog)!

In all seriousness, I'm going for the exact opposite market. The stuff that you would not bother with. The heart of the beer money market. With a twist. I will operate and advertise as a legal company.

I fully intend to operate the business legally, carry liability insurance and pay my taxes. I have every reason to do so, because of a few factors:

- The first is that I am a professional civil engineer. I am licensed in the state of MA, and therefore I cannot risk losing my license due to unethical dealings. It also requires me to have an umbrella policy. I've had a seperate landscaping policy in the past for snow work, but I'm going to work with my insurance agent to come up with the appropriate policies to cover us.

- While all of my trucks are able to registered as "personal" vehicles legally, my dumptruck is a big target. The personal tags just look odd, and it痴 not really worth an argument with a LEO on the side of the road. I'm best off registering it commercially, as the overall cost is not much more. I have taken it off the road for now (its under repair at the moment also) and will register under the company once I have a business license.

- As I stated before, I really need to speak to an accountant about the tax thing. My wife and I both have good paying jobs. We qualify for virtually no tax benefits. I hate to say this, but a small business in the red may help us.

I'm looking for a way to use the equipment that I have (most of it sits around too much), have some fun, get a tax break, and not spend more money than I make. I will be sure to charge enough to cover all my costs, pay myself and maybe make a small profit. I guess I expect to make some money and maybe save some through tax credits, but I don't expect to become a millionaire mowing weeds.

 

[bigtiller]

FWJ - I'll be directly competing with you! Watch out, cause here comes 24 raging horse power and the biggest mower it will pull (60 inch brush hog)!

In all seriousness, I'm going for the exact opposite market. The stuff that you would not bother with. The heart of the beer money market. With a twist. I will operate and advertise as a legal company.

I fully intend to operate the business legally, carry liability insurance and pay my taxes. I have every reason to do so, because of a few factors:

- The first is that I am a professional civil engineer. I am licensed in the state of MA, and therefore I cannot risk losing my license due to unethical dealings. It also requires me to have an umbrella policy. I've had a seperate landscaping policy in the past for snow work, but I'm going to work with my insurance agent to come up with the appropriate policies to cover us.

- While all of my trucks are able to registered as "personal" vehicles legally, my dumptruck is a big target. The personal tags just look odd, and it痴 not really worth an argument with a LEO on the side of the road. I'm best off registering it commercially, as the overall cost is not much more. I have taken it off the road for now (its under repair at the moment also) and will register under the company once I have a business license.

- As I stated before, I really need to speak to an accountant about the tax thing. My wife and I both have good paying jobs. We qualify for virtually no tax benefits. I hate to say this, but a small business in the red may help us.

I'm looking for a way to use the equipment that I have (most of it sits around too much), have some fun, get a tax break, and not spend more money than I make. I will be sure to charge enough to cover all my costs, pay myself and maybe make a small profit. I guess I expect to make some money and maybe save some through tax credits, but I don't expect to become a millionaire mowing weeds.

I am one of those guys that would probably hire you. I have a waterway in my field that is 6 tenths of an acre and in CRP that I am required to mow once a year after the crops are out. The first year the neighbor just happened by and he did it for me just to be neighborly. Last year I did it with the lawn mower but that was a lot of work for it.

IF I was under 10 miles from you, how much would you charge me?

 

[crashz]

I saw this yesterday and had to think about my response. I would need to see the property first. 6/10ths of an acre, assummed to be flat without to many obstacles, should be done in less than an hour. I haven't accurately timed myself, but I'm assuming in flat open fields, long grass, about 1 acre per hour. Thats on my To Do list this spring.

I'm thinking that I will charge a minimum of one hour of service (which from the calc's above) equal $45/hr. A mobilization/demob fee of 1 hour will be charged as well. Travel time greater than 1/2 hr away will be charged at the same rate. So it looks like my minimum fee to show up with my equipment would be $90.

So my response to you BT would most likely be $90, depending on what I saw on your property. Seems high though, doesn't?

Of course this doesn't include the TBN discount!

 

[bigtiller]

I saw this yesterday and had to think about my response. I would need to see the property first. 6/10ths of an acre, assummed to be flat without to many obstacles, should be done in less than an hour. I haven't accurately timed myself, but I'm assuming in flat open fields, long grass, about 1 acre per hour. Thats on my To Do list this spring.

I'm thinking that I will charge a minimum of one hour of service (which from the calc's above) equal $45/hr. A mobilization/demob fee of 1 hour will be charged as well. Travel time greater than 1/2 hr away will be charged at the same rate. So it looks like my minimum fee to show up with my equipment would be $90.

So my response to you BT would most likely be $90, depending on what I saw on your property. Seems high though, doesn't?

Of course this doesn't include the TBN discount!

I would most likely give you the $90, but if you had all John Deere equipment I would give you a hundred dollar bill just to keep the counting easy.

 

[jltii]

I do this and have for over ten years now in Oregon operating as Oregon Field & Brush Mowing. It is enjoyable work, but you need to earn $20-30/hour at least before you can be fair to yourself and cover costs and make money. If you are not willing to be fair to yourself as well as fair to your customers, it will not sustain you. Many of my competitors charge $50 and hour and up. They find work.I am dealing with properties mostly under 10 acres and urge you to not grow too quickly. 3-6 new customers a year without advertising is for me a sustainable rate as properties turn over and I have 38 customers. I find that serving the 30mile radius around Portland is plenty to keep me busy without too much travel time. I have found people are price sensitive, yet loyal if you are reliable and do good work. Code service for keeping down vegetation will serve as your friend as will fire risk abatement. Help other, help yourself, have fun doing it but only do it as long as you enjoy it. Most people find that after their 50's that bumping around on a tractor is not so much fun anymore. Hire your friends neighbors and family. Pay them well and good luck!

 

[wcampbell47]

Of all the things I do with the tractor mowing requires more fuel and seems to be the hardest on the tractor as the engine is running at 2000 rpm's or more. With that said there are a lot of folks that think mowing should not cost much - yet they are unwilling to get out there and do it or their equipment is not up to the task.

I'll soon be 65 and I enjoy my seat time!

 

[jenkinsph]

Of all the things I do with the tractor mowing requires more fuel and seems to be the hardest on the tractor as the engine is running at 2000 rpm's or more. With that said there are a lot of folks that think mowing should not cost much - yet they are unwilling to get out there and do it or their equipment is not up to the task.

I'll soon be 65 and I enjoy my seat time!

Having been in the service business for about thirty years I have found it is more desirable to sell people what they wan't to buy and that is not necessarily what they need. As an example most guys here may want a new tractor and are willing to buy it, but very few want to pay the dealer for ongoing repairs and maintenance. Same with landscapes, customers get excited to see their new landscape job but dread to pay for lawnmowing and trimming.

 

[Ford tractor]

Having been in the service business for about thirty years I have found it is more desirable to sell people what they wan't to buy and that is not necessarily what they need. As an example most guys here may want a new tractor and are willing to buy it, but very few want to pay the dealer for ongoing repairs and maintenance. Same with landscapes, customers get excited to see their new landscape job but dread to pay for lawnmowing and trimming.

I really had to chuckle at your comment. It's so very true, yet so very few of us want to admit it (even to ourselves!).

Unlike some, I do nearly all of my own repairs including hydraulics, engines, transmissions, etc. It's been far more economically advantageous to do that even with buying expensive tools, than taking it to a dealer or having one come out. Plus after 35 years of doing it, the shop has a lot of tools and there are few things that I can't repair cheaply by spending a bit of time. It's good too as these days there seems to be far more time than money...

 

[trook]

crashz,

Some have some good advise here and some seem a little bitter. I do exactly what you are talking about with a 4x4 JD 4320 48/40hp with FEL and a mx6 cutter. This is not done to put food on the table, but rather to make enough to pay my note, have some attachments and help with my tax situation. Besides, I enjoy the seat time. It would be very difficult to depend on this to make a living. This is my take on the situation:

1. Definitely buy liability insurance. Failure to do so in today's environment is completely ridiculous...and dumb.

2. You WILL find the occasional piece of property that has partially burried chunks of concrete, rebar, steel, fence posts, rolls of barbed wire, or the engine block the property owner forgot was there. Oh yeah, don't forget about the holes that your entire front end can fall into... Therefore, you must have medium to heavy duty equipment if you expect it to last. You will be disappointed if you try to get by with cheap equipment (been there, done that). Further, you MUST be prepared to deal with some repairs, no matter how good your equipment is. Keeping this in mind, sometimes, you have to pass on some jobs. They just aren't worth the risk.

3. I keep it small. Most of my work is brush cutting property less than 5 acres. I look for small pieces of commercial property that have to abide by the city landscape ordinance and keep their property within reasonable standards. I look for property/conditions that the local landscaping companies either don't have the tractor equipment to deal with or don't want to bother with. Conversly, I look for property too small for the large equipment operators to bother with. I realize this is a small niche, and therefore, I am not swamped with work....but I don't want to be... I have a "regular" job and a family.

4. I don't try to compete with the lowballers or those who don't follow the law. If you want me to maintain your property, you are gonna have to pay. I evaluate the property and give a total price for the work the owner wants performed. My minimum is $100. I don't care if you want me to bush hog 1/4 acre. I will not show up for less than $100. My goal, when determining a price, is to figure $100 for the 1st hour/acre and $65 for every acre/hour after that. I'm not gonna waste my time for $40 (about $10 profit) per hour when I have to pay for fuel, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc. I have a "real" job that takes care of my families primary needs.

5. I follow the laws of the state of Mississippi and actually pay taxes on all my income!! I know this may be a little unusual, but I feel it is the right thing to do. However, there are some substantial tax benefits for MY situation. So far, for the last 3 years, when counting all expenses and depreciation, this part-time tractor business has had a fairly significant positive impact on my overall tax situation.

If any of this makes since to you, and you are selective as I am, you may find this type of work enjoyable. However, please beware and considerate of the many pitfalls that can take something enjoyable and turn it into a nightmare.

 

[jenkinsph]

crashz,

Some have some good advise here and some seem a little bitter. I do exactly what you are talking about with a 4x4 JD 4320 48/40hp with FEL and a mx6 cutter. This is not done to put food on the table, but rather to make enough to pay my note, have some attachments and help with my tax situation. Besides, I enjoy the seat time. It would be very difficult to depend on this to make a living. This is my take on the situation:

1. Definitely buy liability insurance. Failure to do so in today's environment is completely ridiculous...and dumb.

2. You WILL find the occasional piece of property that has partially burried chunks of concrete, rebar, steel, fence posts, rolls of barbed wire, or the engine block the property owner forgot was there. Oh yeah, don't forget about the holes that your entire front end can fall into... Therefore, you must have medium to heavy duty equipment if you expect it to last. You will be disappointed if you try to get by with cheap equipment (been there, done that). Further, you MUST be prepared to deal with some repairs, no matter how good your equipment is. Keeping this in mind, sometimes, you have to pass on some jobs. They just aren't worth the risk.

3. I keep it small. Most of my work is brush cutting property less than 5 acres. I look for small pieces of commercial property that have to abide by the city landscape ordinance and keep their property within reasonable standards. I look for property/conditions that the local landscaping companies either don't have the tractor equipment to deal with or don't want to bother with. Conversly, I look for property too small for the large equipment operators to bother with. I realize this is a small niche, and therefore, I am not swamped with work....but I don't want to be... I have a "regular" job and a family.

4. I don't try to compete with the lowballers or those who don't follow the law. If you want me to maintain your property, you are gonna have to pay. I evaluate the property and give a total price for the work the owner wants performed. My minimum is $100. I don't care if you want me to bush hog 1/4 acre. I will not show up for less than $100. My goal, when determining a price, is to figure $100 for the 1st hour/acre and $65 for every acre/hour after that. I'm not gonna waste my time for $40 (about $10 profit) per hour when I have to pay for fuel, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc. I have a "real" job that takes care of my families primary needs.

5. I follow the laws of the state of Mississippi and actually pay taxes on all my income!! I know this may be a little unusual, but I feel it is the right thing to do. However, there are some substantial tax benefits for MY situation. So far, for the last 3 years, when counting all expenses and depreciation, this part-time tractor business has had a fairly significant positive impact on my overall tax situation.

If any of this makes since to you, and you are selective as I am, you may find this type of work enjoyable. However, please beware and considerate of the many pitfalls that can take something enjoyable and turn it into a nightmare.

I think that is a good way to look at it, good post.

 

[8404]

Trook your are doing things exactly the same way i do in that i work a full time job and cut feilds on the side. I get 100.00 the first hour or just to show up on the job and 55.00 hour after that. and ive never run out of work. I mow people all the time who have a 100 hp tractor in the barn but is to big for the areas they want mowed. around here its all small feilds with large drain ditches and ponds or sometimes they just dont want to ride their own equipment. and thats great for me i need the work. I have never advertised just being out mowing brings the business to me.

 

[JJZ 109]

crashz,


4. I don't try to compete with the lowballers or those who don't follow the law. If you want me to maintain your property, you are gonna have to pay. I evaluate the property and give a total price for the work the owner wants performed. My minimum is $100. I don't care if you want me to bush hog 1/4 acre. I will not show up for less than $100. My goal, when determining a price, is to figure $100 for the 1st hour/acre and $65 for every acre/hour after that. I'm not gonna waste my time for $40 (about $10 profit) per hour when I have to pay for fuel, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc. I have a "real" job that takes care of my families primary needs.

Good point. I know what I have to have to make a decent profit. And with the price of diesel today, I have to roll that into some jobs that are further from home.
I've got a lot of money invested in a bucket truck, gutter machine, trailer and various other tools and equipment and it isn't worth it to roll out of the yard for minimal profit.
I'm closing in on retirement, but in the meantime my wife and I both have full time jobs so I can afford to be a little choosy. In my opinion and from what I've seen, if the customer wants low ball price, they often get low ball product.

 

[jenkinsph]

I don't worry about lowballers, they can't compete with the rest of us who are fully insured with better equipment. Most of these lowballers can barely make it through one season as it takes money for staying power.

My focus is not volume but cultivating good customers that are willing to pay appropriately for good service. I used to try to run every service call that came in, wore my self out and the equipment too. For the last seven years or so I have concentrated on building a better customer base. Fewer customers but happier customers, I have more time to do things at home and more money to accomplish my goals. The equipment tools trucks last longer too, and I am happier.

 

[RDrancher]

I don't worry about lowballers, they can't compete with the rest of us who are fully insured with better equipment. Most of these lowballers can barely make it through one season as it takes money for staying power.

My focus is not volume but cultivating good customers that are willing to pay appropriately for good service. I used to try to run every service call that came in, wore my self out and the equipment too. For the last seven years or so I have concentrated on building a better customer base. Fewer customers but happier customers, I have more time to do things at home and more money to accomplish my goals. The equipment tools trucks last longer too, and I am happier.

Good points. That's exactly where I'm at with my business. Let the lowballers have the "shop for the lowest price" customers. Those types of jobs are just busy work. I'm busy enough with good customers myself.

 

[knightrider955]

I don't worry about lowballers, they can't compete with the rest of us who are fully insured with better equipment. Most of these lowballers can barely make it through one season as it takes money for staying power.

My focus is not volume but cultivating good customers that are willing to pay appropriately for good service. I used to try to run every service call that came in, wore my self out and the equipment too. For the last seven years or so I have concentrated on building a better customer base. Fewer customers but happier customers, I have more time to do things at home and more money to accomplish my goals. The equipment tools trucks last longer too, and I am happier.

Cultivating good customers??? You mean finding suckers that are willing to pay crazy money for a good service that I can provide for less. Im a Lowballer with a older Tractor that stays busy all the time. I have a good group of returning customers that I work for that pay me good. But less than you charge, Ive been layed off from my job for a year and feed my kids just fine being a "Lowballer" and provide quality work at a great price.

 

[jenkinsph]

Cultivating good customers??? You mean finding suckers that are willing to pay crazy money for a good service that I can provide for less. Im a Lowballer with a older Tractor that stays busy all the time. I have a good group of returning customers that I work for that pay me good. But less than you charge, Ive been layed off from my job for a year and feed my kids just fine being a "Lowballer" and provide quality work at a great price.

Hope you can continue to feed your family as that is the important thing. Times have been tough the last few years.

You shouldn't make assumptions about other people such as myself, doesn't help your cause. All of my customers are business people who have succeeded and understand what it costs to be in a business. They are happy, I am happy what is your problem?

 

[knightrider955]

Hope you can continue to feed your family as that is the important thing. Times have been tough the last few years.

You shouldn't make assumptions about other people such as myself, doesn't help your cause. All of my customers are business people who have succeeded and understand what it costs to be in a business. They are happy, I am happy what is your problem?

Well why are you making assumptions about us small time guys saying we cant compete?? Im not a bad guy because I can under bid you and my tractor doesnt shine as nice as yours. So far all Ive done in repairs is a water pump. Ive plowed, disked and planted 5 acres with no issues. New equipment and a higher fee doesnt mean better quality. Not around here anyways. Believe me if I had a choice between doing this or having a regular job with benefits, the tractor would be in the barn. But its all good.