Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$

[bigbull338]

yeah baling after the dew falls is best of alalfa because it keeps the leaves from shattering off the stem so bad because they are damp.

 

[pacerron]

You may end up sleeping in the field anyway. The best baling is in the late evening and early morning when there's a little dew on the ground. I remember my dad baling until about midnight when the dew got too heavy. He'd sleep under the tractor for a few hours and then start baling again at first light.

Our go by rule is:
Time to quit for the night when the tractor tires start getting wet.
Time to start again next day is when they don't get wet.

All depends on the dryness of the hay and humidity to start. If the hay gets too dry a little dampness rolled/baled in helps, but too much dampness on an already windrowed field can make "not fit for horse hay"
Can also burn your barn down if it is really wet when baled.
Cow hay, not dairy, is a lot more forgiving than horse hay.
Long days regardless, heat, sweat, eyes swollen almost shut, scratches, backaches, equipment breakdowns, and always watching the weather to get the hay in the barn before a rain event.
It's lots of fun though when everything goes right....
If the field you bail is near your horses you will probably see them standing in the shade of a tree or building watching you and grinnining like a Cheshire cat.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

I looked at the list of threads you have started in an attempt to see perhaps what this metal shed structure looked like but 88 threads would be a bit too time consuming to find it.

Ron,

Only 88... I'm slacking off...

My "temporary pasture" thread covers most of the area where the horses are now, and the "Monster Mulcher" thread covers the part about the over all 5 acres I am turning into pasture over time and howI mulched it after logging it. But you are right, the metal shed is in neither of those...

1 & 2 - My metal shed is a large 20 x 50 (approx) metal framed, corregated galv sheet sides and roof, no insulation at all. This shed is near the house, in my back yard (I will take pics tomorrow I hope). The horse pasture is up the hill infront of the house (up by my main gate) and quite a distance from the house. It has minimal venting I fear (Need to look again). There is a large roller door, but not tall enough for the ROPS and Canopy on my tractor to fit. Currently except where the ducks spill water, it is dry as a bone, and it is always dry year round. In fact there is so much dust from the dirt that it slowly coats everything badly with ruddy red dirt. was thinking I needed to avoid the dirt on my hay. Currently all the ducks, chickens and guineas are lodged inside at night, the free range during daylight.

3 - I have not left over hay yet. Everything I have is still good. I might try to buy some of the Hay Bales from my supplier that were the ones stored on the ground that the rest sat upon, maybe I can get those cheaper... Maybe not...

Skids = wooden Pallets, right?

Airflow. I will remove the roller door and cut the opening up higher to allow the ROPS/Canopy in and I will NOT put any kind of door on it. I figured the tractor and attachments will be better under a roof than outside in the rain.

4 - Stacked on end? Is the "end" the cut end side? The sides with twine are "sides", right? I just want to make sure I follow directions properly...

5 - No barbed wire, agreed. No metal in horse sheds, agreed. Horses are always looking for something to cut themselves with because they LOVE to bankrupt their owners and they alo LOVE the Vet...

I have not even started a run-in shed project yet. I need a shed for my 4Harley's first...

David

 

[pacerron]

yeah baling after the dew falls is best of alalfa because it keeps the leaves from shattering off the stem so bad because they are damp.

This can be true but I don't think David is into doing alfala in his thread. No mention of buying or using a haybine mower conditioner.

 

[pacerron]

Ron,

Only 88... I'm slacking off...

My "temporary pasture" thread covers most of the area where the horses are now, and the "Monster Mulcher" thread covers the part about the over all 5 acres I am turning into pasture over time and howI mulched it after logging it. But you are right, the metal shed is in neither of those...

1 & 2 - My metal shed is a large 20 x 50 (approx) metal framed, corregated galv sheet sides and roof, no insulation at all. This shed is near the house, in my back yard (I will take pics tomorrow I hope). The horse pasture is up the hill infront of the house (up by my main gate) and quite a distance from the house. It has minimal venting I fear (Need to look again). There is a large roller door, but not tall enough for the ROPS and Canopy on my tractor to fit. Currently except where the ducks spill water, it is dry as a bone, and it is always dry year round. In fact there is so much dust from the dirt that it slowly coats everything badly with ruddy red dirt. was thinking I needed to avoid the dirt on my hay. Currently all the ducks, chickens and guineas are lodged inside at night, the free range during daylight.

3 - I have not left over hay yet. Everything I have is still good. I might try to buy some of the Hay Bales from my supplier that were the ones stored on the ground that the rest sat upon, maybe I can get those cheaper... Maybe not...

Skids = wooden Pallets, right?

Airflow. I will remove the roller door and cut the opening up higher to allow the ROPS/Canopy in and I will NOT put any kind of door on it. I figured the tractor and attachments will be better under a roof than outside in the rain.

4 - Stacked on end? Is the "end" the cut end side? The sides with twine are "sides", right? I just want to make sure I follow directions properly...

5 - No barbed wire, agreed. No metal in horse sheds, agreed. Horses are always looking for something to cut themselves with because they LOVE to bankrupt their owners and they alo LOVE the Vet...

I have not even started a run-in shed project yet. I need a shed for my 4Harley's first...

David

Yes, skids = pallets
Not limited to wood. Some are made from molded composition plastic material and much stronger than wood. No nails to worry about.

I was trying to use your vernacular in describing bale end.
Up here we refer to the sides that have no string as "cut sides"; the long sides that have string as "string sides; the small square ends that have string as "ends"

Storing hay and equipment inside is the best option but moisture trapped air is still a big enemey to both, even inside. Moisture in the electronics of modern tractors can really mess them up. It is not even wise to powerwash in some of the areas that collect the most dirt and grease.
Barns are expensive but so is time, fuel, equipment wear, seed, and fertilizer.
The big rolls you see left outside for storage are often wasting 25-33% of this time, fuel, equipment wear, seed, and fertilizer because that much of them become moldy or rotten and have no value as food for the animals it is fed too.
The smaller the roll the bigger percentage of waste.
In recent years many folks have added a wrap to the rolls that store outside to help the water run off or stuff the rolls into a big plastic tube but both these techniques require additional equipment cost, disposable one time use material cost, time, and fuel.
Most horse owners that you might sell hay to in your proposed adventure still prefer small square/rectangular bales because they are easier to handle with little or no equipment. They are also the most labor intensive and time consuming for you to make so they must demand a higher price per ton than rolls. This does not mean you made any more money.
You should also consider the extra insurance costs for liability when taking your tractor equipment out on a public road.

I'm not trying to talk you out of this, by any means. You just appear to be sincerely interested in finding out how cold the water is before jumping in..
If you opt for just making your own hay for your own use, then a small round baler would be much more practical from the standpoint of time, handling, and manpower required per ton if you have a barn/shed that is high enough to store multiple layers of rolls.

 

[forgeblast]

Does anyone store round bales on pallets outside? I would think that they would freeze to the pallet, I guess better on the pallet then to the ground.

 

[scoutcub]

David -

Any updates on equipment purchase?



Frank

 

[rambler]

If we are talking about haymaking, and alfalfa esp, there is southwestern haymaking which is _terribly_ different than any other part of thre USA. That do odd things there due to the ultra low humidity they get into in the heart of haymaking season.

The rest of us, we hope to heck the dew burns off before the sun sets so we can get some relatively dry hay put up....

--->Paul

 

[MossflowerWoods]

David -

Any updates on equipment purchase?

Frank

Frank,

I had a long phone call with Bucktaker and he sent me email pictures. It looks pretty good, I am certain it is a smoking good deal.

Right now I am debating mostly how quickly can I get up to speed, find some fields to lease and so on... I am trying to estimate what my costs will be for food/fuel for the pickup run.

My buddy SLHawkins will get back in a couple weeks an I plan to have a long talk (mostly him educating me) with him about haying and possibly running some cows on a place he knows, etc.

It boils down to finances and time. What can I get done, that I can afford, and do I do it now or later.

I have a couple questions I will PM you about.

How is K-stan?

David

 

[scoutcub]

Frank,

I had a long phone call with Bucktaker and he sent me email pictures. It looks pretty good, I am certain it is a smoking good deal.

Right now I am debating mostly how quickly can I get up to speed, find some fields to lease and so on... I am trying to estimate what my costs will be for food/fuel for the pickup run.

My buddy SLHawkins will get back in a couple weeks an I plan to have a long talk (mostly him educating me) with him about haying and possibly running some cows on a place he knows, etc.

It boils down to finances and time. What can I get done, that I can afford, and do I do it now or later.

I have a couple questions I will PM you about.

How is K-stan?

David

OK, gotcha. Kazak is finally warming up, beautiful weather now....right as I'm getting ready to head West....:laughing::laughing:
Now my future is uncertain, may or may not be coming back here....:confused3:

 

[MotorSeven]

Ok, Moss, here is my story:

I have 21ac of bottom land hayfields, neighbor has about the same. After several years of having guys agree to hay my place then not show up, I finally got a fellow to do it....kinda. I was GIVING HIM THE HAY FOR FREE, only asking that he cut it 3 times(bottomland here can go 4 cuts a season). Well, after a couple of he slacked off and missed a few cuts and I had to brush hog a coupel of pastures because the weeds tried to take over.

My neighbor was having similar issues, so we decided to go in together, purchase used equipment and do it ourselves. We went with a 4x4 round baler, 8' tedder, turkeytail rake and a brand new HayMax Drum cutter....total investment: $7,500.

Last summer we rolled about 350 bales. Baler broke(main shaft went fubar) costing $700 in repairs, almost a month of downtime resulting in having to hire another neighbor to bale for us costing $100. I wish we could have afforded a NEW BALER....but $17K is a big chunk to bite off.

Anyway, after fuel, expenses and parts we made a little over $1K selling bales for $8(NO LABOR figured in). Also last spring I built part of a 56x80' hay barn...16x80' to store them in. If you can't store you hay in the DRY...don't even consider it.....too much loss to wet. I store mine up on pallets, but be careful, in the winter the pallets can freeze to the ground. If you drive over them to get needed hay, guess what?...broken pallets and nails in tires.I was forewarned about this so it didn't happen yet.

Now, with a small tedder and rake that means you have to make twice as many passes to get the same result as a folding tedder and V-rake. Twice the fuel, twice the seat time, and twice the opportunity to break something. I am now looking to up-grade to a larger tedder and rake...my time is valuable:thumbsup:

The Drum mower has been a wonderful thing....High range, and wide open(smooth pasture only) and the thing just slices through the grass like it ain't even there. 6 itty bitty cutting blades that cost under $2 each and are reversable, and change out in 10 min(all 6).

The baler is an old Hesston 530. After spending two days rolling around under it in the hot sun and 3 weeks+ waiting for parts it is now making good tight bales. We have our fingers crossed that we can get through this season without a breakdown. I really want a Krone 4x4 baler(no belts, it's a gear driven drum), but like I said....$17K

My recommendation...? Go round bale. Way way less work than square. And be prepared to fix your own stuff, because it breaks, and if you hire soemone to fix it, you will be in the hole quick.

This year our price goes to $10, and we already have over 200 bales sold....the pressure is ON:laughing:

 

[blueriver]

Anyway, after fuel, expenses and parts we made a little over $1K selling bales fro $8(NO LABOR figured in.

This year our price goes to $10, and we already have over 200 bales sold....the pressure is ON:laughing:

Are you serious ... $8 a bale and this year $10 a bale ??? You did say 4x4 rounds?? Isn't that awfull cheap?

 

[MotorSeven]

Are you serious ... $8 a bale and this year $10 a bale ??? You did say 4x4 rounds?? Isn't that awfull cheap?

Yep, we were scrambling to build a haybarn. If they sat out you can't give 'em away. Also, last year was a banner year here for hay...everybody had it and we did not want to sit on it. There are 6 rolls left in the barn(part of what I held back for my animals), so I think we did ok:cool2: "stick and move"

The evil master plan is to complete the barn, fill it with 500ish rolls. Then have a customer base that take what we roll right off the feld. When another drought hits bump the price but keep it lower than anyone else. Last drought, 4x4's were bringing about $40, so we would sell in the high $20's. We do want to be fair and make a little money at the same time.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Yep, we were scrambling to build a haybarn. If they sat out you can't give 'em away. Also, last year was a banner year here for hay...everybody had it and we did not want to sit on it. There are 6 rolls left in the barn(part of what I held back for my animals), so I think we did ok:cool2: "stick and move"

The evil master plan is to complete the barn, fill it with 500ish rolls. Then have a customer base that take what we roll right off the feld. When another drought hits bump the price but keep it lower than anyone else. Last drought, 4x4's were bringing about $40, so we would sell in the high $20's. We do want to be fair and make a little money at the same time.

DANG!! I could probably pay the freight for a semi truck to haul some of your hay back to me. Grass hay is selling for $180 a ton around here, and that's if you look long and hard or dicker fiercely. I'd be happier than ever to be buying hay for 5 times what you are selling it for.

 

[pacerron]

Yep, we were scrambling to build a haybarn. If they sat out you can't give 'em away. Also, last year was a banner year here for hay...everybody had it and we did not want to sit on it. There are 6 rolls left in the barn(part of what I held back for my animals), so I think we did ok:cool2: "stick and move"

The evil master plan is to complete the barn, fill it with 500ish rolls. Then have a customer base that take what we roll right off the feld. When another drought hits bump the price but keep it lower than anyone else. Last drought, 4x4's were bringing about $40, so we would sell in the high $20's. We do want to be fair and make a little money at the same time.

If you are making good horse hay you might get more for it selling to a transporter that takes hay south and west.
Coastal Bermuda Hay available down there causes impaction and colic problems with many horses so a lot of folks with expensive horses pay high prices for northern hay.

 

[SLHawkins]

If you are making good horse hay you might get more for it selling to a transporter that takes hay south and west.
Coastal Bermuda Hay available down there causes impaction and colic problems with many horses so a lot of folks with expensive horses pay high prices for northern hay.

--DANG!! I could probably pay the freight for a semi truck to haul some of your hay back to me. Grass hay is selling for $180 a ton around here, and that's if you look long and hard or dicker fiercely. I'd be happier than ever to be buying hay for 5 times what you are selling it for.--


David,
There's two potential customers/markets right there...I say go for it!!

Hawk

 

[MossflowerWoods]

David,
There's two potential customers/markets right there...I say go for it!!

Hawk

Shawn,

You open up an interesting thought.

I heard a number of anecdotes along this line earlier this winter when I first went looking for hay.

The local feed store trucks his square bales in from Penn and sells them for almost $8 last I heard back in Feb I think. They also stated loudly "You will not find ANY Spotsylvania (nearby county) hay of equal quality. The first time I bought hay there, first week of Jan, they were like $6 and I believe the price increase was 100% due to rising fuel costs.

I also heard somewhere that MANY folks trucked last season's hay to TX due to their drought and fires. But that is a one time situation, they will not be able to truck to those same places this year.

Clearly Fuel costs will dictate how far away you can haul profitably, and there is the other question about how "good" is hay from Mid-Atlantic (Upper South) Caroline County VA gonna be compared to true Northern Yankee hay from further north?

Maybe you and I should just become hay brokers/truckers and connect our TBN hay making buddies in the North with our TBN hay consumers in the South? Hmmm...

It is a tempting idea still...

I had dinner with a friend last night and his assessment of my Haying question was simple...

Today my horses are consuming $28/week (7 bales @ $4 today) in hay, they will eat a little less in the heat of summer so this will go down a little, but let's take $25 / week as average, that is 100 weeks to pay for the equipment ($2500) 20 weeks to pay transportation ($500) and 36 weeks ($900) to cover tractor fuel and maint of the equipment & tractor. That means in 3 years it is fully paid off and all I meen to produce is 325 bales per year (assume 2 cuttings per year here, only 163 bales each time)

Anything beyond 325 bales per year = PROFIT, and if I get more horses or a cow etc. that only accelerates the ROI.

How much land do I need to get 200 square bales per cutting? Hmmm...

 

[MossflowerWoods]

David,
There's two potential customers/markets right there...I say go for it!!

Hawk

Shawn,

We need to find/build us a big ole pole barn to store our hay in sir!

We need to add that to the calculations...

David

 

[blueriver]

I also heard somewhere that MANY folks trucked last season's hay to TX due to their drought and fires. But that is a one time situation, they will not be able to truck to those same places this year.

remember ... if its not Texas ... there is always a part of the country that will need the hay. Look at a drought monitor map ... other areas are now faced with those conditions. Good hay will sell ... private individuals and brokers are always searching for hay. In the past several years I have always ran out ... seems I never have enough.

 

[riptides]

Please factor in the weather. The past three years I have managed to get one decent cutting off my property due to drought. I am right up the road from you.

My best year, we pulled over 5,000 square bales from the front 40. It was "good" quality, but since the land had been not properly cared for, it was not a "quality" difference maker for "horse" hay types.

Since one of my kids is now educated and has a decent network she is doing the soil analysis and maintaining the pastures. We hope in another year or two to be offering the highest quality "horse" hay type grasses.

Weather permitting.

Shawn,

You open up an interesting thought.

I heard a number of anecdotes along this line earlier this winter when I first went looking for hay.

The local feed store trucks his square bales in from Penn and sells them for almost $8 last I heard back in Feb I think. They also stated loudly "You will not find ANY Spotsylvania (nearby county) hay of equal quality. The first time I bought hay there, first week of Jan, they were like $6 and I believe the price increase was 100% due to rising fuel costs.

I also heard somewhere that MANY folks trucked last season's hay to TX due to their drought and fires. But that is a one time situation, they will not be able to truck to those same places this year.

Clearly Fuel costs will dictate how far away you can haul profitably, and there is the other question about how "good" is hay from Mid-Atlantic (Upper South) Caroline County VA gonna be compared to true Northern Yankee hay from further north?

Maybe you and I should just become hay brokers/truckers and connect our TBN hay making buddies in the North with our TBN hay consumers in the South? Hmmm...

It is a tempting idea still...

I had dinner with a friend last night and his assessment of my Haying question was simple...

Today my horses are consuming $28/week (7 bales @ $4 today) in hay, they will eat a little less in the heat of summer so this will go down a little, but let's take $25 / week as average, that is 100 weeks to pay for the equipment ($2500) 20 weeks to pay transportation ($500) and 36 weeks ($900) to cover tractor fuel and maint of the equipment & tractor. That means in 3 years it is fully paid off and all I meen to produce is 325 bales per year (assume 2 cuttings per year here, only 163 bales each time)

Anything beyond 325 bales per year = PROFIT, and if I get more horses or a cow etc. that only accelerates the ROI.

How much land do I need to get 200 square bales per cutting? Hmmm...