Jubilee oil pressure

[Guesseral]

Ok I posted this in the vintage section but this seems like a good place also.

I just got done replacing the engine in my Jubilee, I have done several of this style tractor but this time I have a problem I never ran into before. I have been taking my time during the winter (nothing else to do) replacing parts cleaning painting and so on, I replaced the block with a rebuilt block from an engine machine shop because the original one had a crack between the left side water drain plug and the oil filter, I guess my dad had let it freeze at one time. They did all of the normal stuff, crank sleeves pistons bearings cam and what not. Well last night I started it for the first time and everything was great (after I removed and changed the distributor from 180 deg out I hate when I do that) let it idle at a low idle for the oil pump to prime up about 15 to 20 seconds. Thats when I realized I had a problem, the oil pressure shot right up it went to 80 lbs I lowered the idle even more and got it down to 60 lbs but that's the lowest it will go. I have started the tractor several times at that low idle and 60 lbs is what it has. I have never had a problem with the oil pressure on this tractor, and I reinstalled the old pump all I did was to clean it out and replace the gaskets. Can an oil pump go bad to the opposite direction, I mean when they go bad they usually loose oil pressure not gain right. Could the pressure releif have gone bad, it should be running at 40 to 50 lbs if the spring lost it's spring strength wouldn't it have lost pressure? Could there be a clog in the block (god I hope not) but if there were a clog wouldn't the pressure relief valve kick in? Well I hope someone has an idea on this.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Ok I posted this in the vintage section but this seems like a good place also.

I just got done replacing the engine in my Jubilee, I have done several of this style tractor but this time I have a problem I never ran into before. I have been taking my time during the winter (nothing else to do) replacing parts cleaning painting and so on, I replaced the block with a rebuilt block from an engine machine shop because the original one had a crack between the left side water drain plug and the oil filter, I guess my dad had let it freeze at one time. They did all of the normal stuff, crank sleeves pistons bearings cam and what not. Well last night I started it for the first time and everything was great (after I removed and changed the distributor from 180 deg out I hate when I do that) let it idle at a low idle for the oil pump to prime up about 15 to 20 seconds. Thats when I realized I had a problem, the oil pressure shot right up it went to 80 lbs I lowered the idle even more and got it down to 60 lbs but that's the lowest it will go. I have started the tractor several times at that low idle and 60 lbs is what it has. I have never had a problem with the oil pressure on this tractor, and I reinstalled the old pump all I did was to clean it out and replace the gaskets. Can an oil pump go bad to the opposite direction, I mean when they go bad they usually loose oil pressure not gain right. Could the pressure releif have gone bad, it should be running at 40 to 50 lbs if the spring lost it's spring strength wouldn't it have lost pressure? Could there be a clog in the block (god I hope not) but if there were a clog wouldn't the pressure relief valve kick in? Well I hope someone has an idea on this.

What's the owners manual say the pressure should be?

My guess is that your relief valve is stuck closed or partially closed. Let it run for a while to warm up the oil and see what happens. I wouldn't be too worried at this point. Are you using the correct SAE weight oil in it?

If it continues to run with too high oil pressure, than checking the relief valve would be in order. If you have a shop manual it might show you what the oil circuit looks like. Usually the valve train gets the last of the oil in the circuit so see if the top end is getting oil. If it's not than there may be a blockage somewhere. If that the problem, I'd check back with whoever did the rebuild because something is screwed up.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto what jerry said. i'd be pullign the valve cover and see if the valve train is oiling.

ditto on a stuck relief as well.

I'd even pull the oil filter for a looksee

55 psi should be normal max pressure.. with cold throttle pressures up to 60 just beacuse a good tight red tiger can make alot of volume.

I'd run 10w30, or 15w40 in a mahcine like that.

post back what ya find.

soundguy

 

[Guesseral]

The manual states 40 mto 50 lbs. I really didn't want to take the valve cover off till I ran it a while so I could adjust the valves, but I guess your right I do need to see if the oil is getting up there. I really didn't have any time last night but theres always tonight.

 

[Soundguy]

it's obvious there is some kinf of abherent behavior going on.

reluctance to do diagnoistic observation won't get you anywhere.. and if the top end is not oiling.. then waiting is going to be a BAD thing.

sorry.

valve cover ain't hard to pull anyway.

 

[whodat526]

first do the easy thing chage the gauge and see if that is the problem

 

[Guesseral]

Didn't get much time to look at it last night, had to take the wife shoping I know tractors come first but she doesn't seem to understand that. I did get to confirm that the oil is getting to the filter. I also took the breather cover off of the valve cover and I could see (while running) lots of oil running down one of the pushrods just like it is suppose to.
I feel a little better now at least. I will take the valve cover off over the weekend and make sure there is enough oil flow down the entire rocker arm rail, but with that much oil pressure if it's getting there there shouldn't be a problem with that. Oh yea the oil pressure was only like 58 lbs last night so I am hoping the thought of the pressure relief valve being stuck is correct.

 

[Soundguy]

58 is getting close to normal. in fact 60 psi cold throttle for a few minutes is ok.

80 ain't though

 

[Jerry/MT]

Didn't get much time to look at it last night, had to take the wife shoping I know tractors come first but she doesn't seem to understand that. I did get to confirm that the oil is getting to the filter. I also took the breather cover off of the valve cover and I could see (while running) lots of oil running down one of the pushrods just like it is suppose to.
I feel a little better now at least. I will take the valve cover off over the weekend and make sure there is enough oil flow down the entire rocker arm rail, but with that much oil pressure if it's getting there there shouldn't be a problem with that. Oh yea the oil pressure was only like 58 lbs last night so I am hoping the thought of the pressure relief valve being stuck is correct.

As long as you getting all that oil on the valve train I think your 'll find the problem in the relief valve. It may have been stuck or the spring was a little cocked in it, since you said you cleaned it up. It might work itself loose.

 

[Soundguy]

i agree. 68 psi is getting darn close to 'super' normal pressure for a tight cold engine.

 

[Guesseral]

Yea got to look at the valve train this weekend and there is plenty of oil running through the rail. The 60 psi is still the norm though and when I run the rpm up it does go to 80. I am trying to remember if the pressure ran high before but I just can't remember it's been about 2 years since this tractor has ran. I will probable just get a new pump because I don't think a relief valve only is avalable, and if it is it would only be through a ford dealer and I would pay as much for the valve as I would for the entire pump after market.

 

[Soundguy]

80 would bother me.. 60 not so much.

what about droppingthe pan for a looksee at the pump and see what you can see.

have you checked with a test gauge?

soundguy

 

[Guesseral]

Sorry I got busy at work yesterday and couldn't answer you. If I am going to drop the pan (which I am) I want to have a new pump on hand and then just put it in at that point. They arn't that expensive and it sure woun't hurt to put a new one in to be sure. I am also going to put in a new pressure gauge while I am at it. All I am going to do is sell the tractor when I am all done and I don't want someone else to have problems with it that's just not me I don't sell junk. Of course after I put the money into it, no one is going to want to even pay what I have into it so I will probably never sell it anyways!

 

[varmint]

This may be a tad off topic, but my rich little brother has, among his fleet of fine autos, a Porsche Carrera S... he noticed his oil pressure was running towards the top of the gauge, way above where the manual specified, and being a pilot, he was worried. The Porsche dealer, never ones to shy away from taking customer's money, told him not to worry- "they all do that".

If you don't think your engine is too tight from its rebuild, I would agree that the relief valve is stuck. If it's a gear pump, there shouldn't be any way for it go "bad" and deliver too much pressure. Curious to see the outcome.

 

[Soundguy]

i'd for sure be checking it with a new gauge before I took a single bolt out of the oil pan and bought a new pump...

 

[Guesseral]

Yea I was thinking the same, I think tractor supply down the road has the gauges in stock but I have to order the pump.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Sorry I got busy at work yesterday and couldn't answer you. If I am going to drop the pan (which I am) I want to have a new pump on hand and then just put it in at that point. They arn't that expensive and it sure woun't hurt to put a new one in to be sure. I am also going to put in a new pressure gauge while I am at it. All I am going to do is sell the tractor when I am all done and I don't want someone else to have problems with it that's just not me I don't sell junk. Of course after I put the money into it, no one is going to want to even pay what I have into it so I will probably never sell it anyways!

I'd always recommend changing out the oil pump when you do a rebuild. At the very least, it should be checked for wear and rebuilt.

Every thing seems to point to a faulty relief valve. A relief valve is just a calibrated spring and a steel ball, usually. If you remove the pump, check the passage for the relief valve and see if ball is stuck or if there's too much tension on the spring. Some pumps have an adjustable tension on the spring.

The boudon gauges on most of these lube systems either don't read at all, or read some number when the engine is shut down and should read zero. Other than gauge to gauge variation, they seldom read high or low. Save your money on the gauge.

 

[Soundguy]

The boudon gauges on most of these lube systems either don't read at all, or read some number when the engine is shut down and should read zero. Other than gauge to gauge variation, they seldom read high or low. Save your money on the gauge.

toooooo many times I've not experienced that with a bourdon style gauge.

My 541 workmaster showed 0 psi when off and 35 psi high idle, 15 psi running.

using the same oil I sawpped it to a napa gauge. 55 psi at startup. double checked that, since it was a huge difference with a cheapy sunpro AND a tsc gauge I had. 55 psi both of them.

wish I could say that was the only time I saw a gauge read 'out of range' when running and still 0 when off.

have actually seen it quite a few times. USUALLY it reads low or 0.. but have seen a few flaky ones read high, even off the scal when running and 0 off. makes me think something is weak in the gauge and perhaps the coil is too easily uncoiled, or the needle is a flexible needle and has a positive stop post for 0 and an uncalibrated tube reading wrong yet still zeroing when off.

too many possibilities not to check a 15$ gauge before doing any real work.

besides. I keep a known good test gauge on a flexible whip line with a universal end I can union different fittings to, .. I keep this for just such a reason.. to double check pressure gauges on equipment. it lives in a CR bag in my tool box, along with a hadfull of common block fittings and compression/flare adapters.. etc..

 

[Guesseral]

Ok I get the point gauges suck! I did stop at tractor supply and the one they have that they say is for the tractor only goes to 55 psi which is totally different from the one on it that goes to 80 psi and they wanted $25 for it didn't really like it because it didn't go to 80 psi. I will take a look napa and see what they have for a gauge that I can test the pressure with, if it tests ok I guess I am all done with the process. I did find a rebuild kit for the pump it was like $55 with shipping, and I can get a new pump for around $85. If its not the gauge it has to be the relief valve who knows it could just be stuck as someone said earlier. Right now it is sitting out side, I put the front tires on and used the forks to take it out and pressure wash the rear end, the front is all together and painted but the rear wasn't even cleaned yet so I am at a lull for now till I bring it back inside maybe tonight not sure yet everytime I have plans to work on it in the evenings the wife has something else to do.

 

[Soundguy]

my bet is on a stuck relief.. but have a test gauge laying around for a tractor owner is a good tool anyway.

even if you pop in a new pump or rebuild kit.. get a 80 or 100 psi gauge to have as a 'tool'

even a cheaper sunpro for limited use.

check an auto parts store like advance..e tc. sunpro are usually 15$