Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$

/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #1  

MossflowerWoods

Super Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
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Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Tractor
Kioti DK50SE HST w/FEL, Gravely 60" ZTR Mower. Stihl MS290 (selling), CS261, & FS190 + Echo CS400 & 2010 F-350 6.4 PSD snowplow truck
Guys,

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that I spend more for Hay than I do for feed/grains.

There is a lady on my street who leases her land to a hay guy, and he just leaves the large round bales there to rot. they sit in the field for months, then he stacks them on the treeline.

I'm thinking about offering her a lease and curious how hard it is, and how long before I break even on the investment (I would go out and buy used hay equip).

I'm sure I'm just being a silly n00b, but it sounds tempting...

Talk me into or out of this Hay-brained idea!

Be well,
David
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #2  
How much land is there and how many bales a year do you use? Are you wanting to round bale or square bale. How is the land now, will you have to do anything to it or is it ready to bale. Dont forget after the cost of the equipment you still have fertilizer to spread and maintain the land. Just asking because I bale about 300 ac a year 3 to 4 times a year. A lot of start up dollars up front.
Jeremy
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #3  
You might talk to the hay guy about buying them as he bales them and get it at a nice price also. Might be cheaper than doing it yourself.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #5  
We did hay when I was a kid. If you do hay you need to plan a lot of time for fixing machines... especially if you have used equipment.

We did save a lot of money on hay, though. We baled a lot of the small <5 acre plots in the area. All small bales. All loaded by hand on a pickup truck and stacked by hand.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #6  
You think you are paying a lot for hay now, try making it on a small scale and see how much it costs.......
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #7  
David -

Hope you're doing well my friend!
I would talk to the owner and/or the gentlemen baling the hay and try to get a good price on the hay he bales. Perhaps you offer to exchange some tractor/computer/other services.

The upfront cost of baling is $$$. Storage, maintenance, extra fuel, etc. etc. I use to hay/square bale when I was a kid, not only lots of work but worse in the hot summer. And, when those knotters screwed up.....:confused2:

And, give you a good excuse to get a bale spear.....:laughing:

Good luck!

Frank
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #8  
Guys,

Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to me that I spend more for Hay than I do for feed/grains.

There is a lady on my street who leases her land to a hay guy, and he just leaves the large round bales there to rot. they sit in the field for months, then he stacks them on the treeline.

I'm thinking about offering her a lease and curious how hard it is, and how long before I break even on the investment (I would go out and buy used hay equip).

I'm sure I'm just being a silly n00b, but it sounds tempting...

Talk me into or out of this Hay-brained idea!

Be well,
David

You have too many other interests, judging by your other posts on TBN, to even consider getting into small time haying. It's expensive and time consuming even if you do it with used equipment.

However, if you really, really want to get into DIY haying, I'd start with the baler. It'll be a used unit for sure unless you have $20K++ for a new one. Buy one that's currently being used for haying, not one that's sat around in a shed for years. And avoid "field-stored" balers absolutely--these generally are tired machines that will eat you alive in time and money for repairs. Mine is a Massey Ferguson 124 (small squares, two-twine, $2K) that I bought right out of the field (the seller baled 30 acres with it the day before I got it).

Next on the priority list is the mower. Spend $3K and get yourself a new drum mower. Disc mowers are what the big boys use, but they're twice as expensive (new) as drums and considerably more complex. Sicklebar mowers (new) cost about the same as drums but take more maintenance and know-how to get them to work properly. Drum mowers windrow the cuttings whereas disc mowers and sicklebars lay the cuttings flat without windrowing them. You may have to make a pass with a tedder or rake to spread out the windrow from the drum mower to get the hay to dry properly. It's an extra pass over the field that costs some time but, IMHO, the speed and simplicity of the drum mower offsets this. Be sure to get a drum mower that's compatable (size and weight) with your tractor.

Next, rake. The options are side delivery bar rake, wheel rake and rotary rake. If you have $3-5K to spend, get a rotary rake--these are modern state-of-the-art designs that are extremely popular. The bar rake is old school that's being supplanted by the rotary rake. Wheel rakes are relatively inexpensive and fast. Some people dislike them because they can contaminate the hay with dirt and debris if not set up and operated properly.

Bale handling. Small time operators stack small square bales by hand. If you're producing several hundred small squares, some type of bale accumulator/grabber is nice. New they cost $5-10K. Used about half that. Round bales can be handled by bale spears attached to your FEL (get skid steer quick attach option on your FEL).

Planting--easiest is broadcast spreading seed and fertilizer. Equipment is inexpensive $500-$1K. Not as efficient (germination wise) as drilling the seed into the ground. Reconditioned drills (5 ft width) for food plots run $1.5-3K.

Good luck
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$
  • Thread Starter
#9  
You have too many other interests...

Flusher,

You probably got me there... :D

But this is an AWESOME post and very informative. I havea TBN buddy who has some haying equip (small rnd bales) and he and I are planning to use bith his and my tractor on his uncle's place near me.

I am making long range plans for how to handle all this when I've got 5 or more horses and my hay demands are higher, etc. And there are these small hay fields nearby just going to waste...

I'm going to try Frank's idea also. I plan to ask to buy the really old rotten round bales as mulch for my cleared areas to cover the seed, and then open the conversation that I MIGHT be interested in buying the round bales when FRESH for my horses (and my neighbor's horses, etc...) Call it a small scale co-op or just being neighborly...

I also plan to offer my services free to the guy who I am currently committed to buy my square bales from (I've bought almost 100 and I have committed to another ~70 or so (what ever is left) before his first harvest in May. I figure how better to learn than by working...

I want to learn all this stuff so I can be more self sufficient and in general more handy of a guy to know.

Thanks again for the outstanding answers in your posts.
Once again the Univ of TBN rocks...

Be well,
David
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #10  
I'm thinking about offering her a lease and curious how hard it is, and how long before I break even on the investment (I would go out and buy used hay equip).

Excuse my language (economics);), but here are two ways that you could evaluate the economic feasibility of making your own hay.

The first (and simplest) is to compute the number of bales that you would have to bale yourself each year in order to just breakeven versus buying hay, Q*. The formula is Q* = FC/(P-AVC), where FC is fixed costs (annual equipment ownership costs and the prorated costs of establishing the hay fields) measured in $/year; P is the price you pay when buying hay measured in $/bale; and AVC is the average variable cost of producing hay (fertilizer, lime, twine, equipment operating cost, etc.) measured in $/bale. If Q* is greater (less) than the # of bales you buy each year, you are better off buying (making) hay. Here is an enterprise budget that you might find useful in estimating FC and AVC for your individual situation: http://www.clemson.edu/extension/aes/budgets/files/fescue.pdf

The second is to compute the net present value (NPV) of an investment in hay equipment. You would need to compare your initial investment to the discounted value of the after-tax cash flows associated with making versus buying hay.

Steve
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #11  
my brother and i just had this discussion yesterday what we were going to do about the hay fertilizer $360.00 per ton and hay is selling for $30.00 per bale 5x5 ft bales fuel is $3.65 per gallon so it just don't make sence for us to even make hay this time we can buy between 70 and 80 bales for just what our fertlizer will cost not counting the time and equipment problems we may encounter.we are trying to keep a tradition going but how long do you take money out of your pocket to support something thaat you have done your whole life but is no longer financally making sense.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #12  
my brother and i just had this discussion yesterday what we were going to do about the hay fertilizer $360.00 per ton and hay is selling for $30.00 per bale 5x5 ft bales fuel is $3.65 per gallon so it just don't make sence for us to even make hay this time we can buy between 70 and 80 bales for just what our fertlizer will cost not counting the time and equipment problems we may encounter.we are trying to keep a tradition going but how long do you take money out of your pocket to support something thaat you have done your whole life but is no longer financally making sense.

Now you're making me feel bad for all the griping I do about how high hay prices are.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #13  
If the farmer that bales the hay is not already buying the hay from the landowner and reselling it, then something must be wrong with the hay- maybe there are lots of briars in the hay. If that is the case, the field will likely need to be reseeded which would be a major expense.

It would still likely be cheaper for you to reseed the field and pay the landowner for the bales after it regrows than to buy your own haying equipment and trying to do it yourself.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #14  
Steve, what is the symbol for "entertainment value" in your equations?
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #15  
I currently have 3 horses, 1 steer and 14 fainting goats. So I have signifigant hay needs, I also have all the hay equipment, baler, sickle mowe, conditioner, rake and wagons. But I have a full time job and no help....even horse freinds are unwilling to bale hay. I have gone to brokering hay from a local supplier, I buy from him and sell to other hay users, Its a growing business and all I do is transfer hay from a wagon to the ground or elevator.

That being said it was good hard work and also very satifiying to do my own hay, But the stress of weather,Time, help putting it up made it not worth it.


I would sell my hay equipment if your are seriously interested.....
Jd 24T baler Ford 501 sickle, International Hay Conditioner, NH rake, $2500 you pick it up
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$ #17  
Without trying to track down your other posts I'd say you are about 12 years behind in trying to get into haying. I "hayed" as a hired hand for about three years on family farms in Vermont.

The first thing you need to do is breed and raise three stalwart young un's and get them to about 12 years old. Old enough to drive a tractor and move some mass of hay and only paid with food and housing. Males are preferred but a female or two can work the tractors.

If you have an essentially free workforce it is almost worthwhile.

One or two people doing hay is possible, if the weather is always perfect and none of the equipment breaks. But as soon as stuff starts to go south you really need a few extra hands and the only way to ensure that is to grow your own.
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$
  • Thread Starter
#18  
If you have an essentially free workforce it is almost worthwhile.

Newbury,

My daughters are 13, 11 and 3. So far only the 3 year old is 100% willing to "Help Daddy Hay"...

:D

David
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$
  • Thread Starter
#19  
:laughing:

There isn't one, but you can use the equations to estimate what your entertainment is costing you.;)

Steve

Steve,

You rock sir. My brain is full, may I be excused?

:D

PS - Don't let my wife have that equation... Nor let her see the payment book for the tractor & stuff...

David
 
/ Thinking about getting into haying for my own use and for small $$$
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I would sell my hay equipment if your are seriously interested.....
Jd 24T baler Ford 501 sickle, International Hay Conditioner, NH rake,
$2500 you pick it up

WOW!

Ok, how big of a trailer would I need to haul it all in one load?

I'm not sure if I am serious yet or not... But... WOW!!!

David
 

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