unrelated 6430s with same issues at same time

[High Brook Hills]

Family has one 2008 JD 6430, two neighbors (people living within two miles) also have one each. For the past 18 or so months each of these machines have experienced the exact same problem at the exact same time. They are all 2008 model years, MFWD, Diesels, four wheels, with FEL and range from about 400 to 900 hours on the clocks.

All problems have required a diagnostic test to determine what was wrong. Some of the problems have been corrected by the diagnostic tool.

Currently, all three tractors are showing to be overheating when the FEL is under a load above about 100 pounds. All three tractor's temperature gauges show to be well within the middle or lower of the temperature range.

All three farms started talking recently and comparing notes. The same dealer is servicing the machines, costs are almost the same for the repairs, all the breakdowns are the same, all breakdowns require a diagnostic tool to identify.

Now all three families are very upset with their Deeres and are looking to get rid of the machines.

Is there anyway the breakdowns could have been programmed into the machines? Could an error code have been sent directly to the equipment without having to plug into the diagnostic port? They are all used for basic chores, mowing, running balers, etc on properties in the 100 to 200 acre range. It is strange that all three machines with different hours have the same breakdowns in the same time frames.


On a related question, is there an inexpensive diagnostic tool available for these machines?

 

[High Brook Hills]

I forgot, the annual cost of repair (over and above normal maintenance of fluids, filters, etc) on each machine is running over $1600 each right now. Seems rather high to me for quality equipment that is hitting four years old.

 

[ctlguy]

Seriously? you actually believe that the dealer can and would make machines fail just for a diagnostic fee? The truth is with these late model machines diagnostics is just part of the troubleshooting tree now. The software that the dealers use is not something that you can purchase yourself. The actuall data and software are designed to expire requiring the dealer to be on a subscription. Where the dealers unable to fix all of the problems? Switching colors so long as you stay with late model equipment like this will not be any different in terms of troubleshooting problems. The ag world just isnt ready to let their diagnostic software out into the world like the automotive world has.

 

[dusty3030]

There may be a tool out there now.
ScanGaugeD - Advanced J1939 & J1708 compatible Vehicle Monitor for Diesel Pusher Vehicles : Linear Logic

I've used the auto version and has been great on reading and clearing codes and you can check anything that has a sensor for what it is out putting.

This may or may not work on the tractors, but I plan on getting one if it does.

 

[ctlguy]

I would talk someone else into buying one first. It will not work, this is a proprieterry (sp?) system, the communication aspect of tractors in the ag world is way to competitive between the oems largely due to sattelite guided farming.

 

[dusty3030]

I would talk someone else into buying one first. It will not work, this is a proprieterry (sp?) system, the communication aspect of tractors in the ag world is way to competitive between the oems largely due to sattelite guided farming.

I'm going to try it. Due to the Tier 3 / Tier 4 crap the connector to the engine has to be J1939 and on my tractor that appears to be what the round diagnostic plug by the fuse box is, a J1939.



http://www.deere.com/en_CAF/products/brochures/power_systems/brochure_industrial.pdf

 

[ctlguy]

Let us know how it works, I am sure there are lots of folks who would like more options on working on their own late model units. Keep in mind the gove restriction on tier3, etc does not realy have a lot to do with the tractor comunication as a whole but I do wish you good luck.

 

[dusty3030]

Let us know how it works, I am sure there are lots of folks who would like more options on working on their own late model units. Keep in mind the gove restriction on tier3, etc does not realy have a lot to do with the tractor comunication as a whole but I do wish you good luck.

I'm curious as to what it will pick up. I know on the automotive version of this thing it kind of turned into an "open source" deal. People would figure out how to program it to read different things on different cars.
Out of the box it should read any sensor that is related to the engine and I'm hoping it will pick up on any on the transmission as well.
Might not tell you what is wrong like an OBD2, but might allow you to "read" what the engine is doing. If nothing else it is a relatively cheap digital temp and oil pressure gauge

 

[Edward. S]

Are these Premiums or Standards.. , Don't want my new one to be like that. Mines going to be a 2012, so I think they're wont be a problem..

 

[High Brook Hills]

All three are Premiums with cabs, bells, whistles....


Is there more to address as to all three having the same issues at the same times? Is this normal for the new generation of Deeres? The annual costs of repairs is just last year, so far this year they are all experiencing the same issue and the repair costs are north of $900.00, and it is still early in the year.

Do all brands have the same issues? Our Case, albiet not a top of the model line, has not experienced any issues. My buddies 5505M has not had any hiccups. My other buddies 5305 has fewer hours than mine, is older, and looks rougher but has not had a mechanical issues. The neighbors 'bota (I cannot remember the number but it is ~100hp) has not had an issue and it is going on two years old. Another friend with a 'bota that is going on five years old, 55HP range, no issues and he adds 50+ hours a year. Plumber buys a new 'bota industrial with a BH every three years and he has had good luck with most of them. One replaced/traded by dealer after repeated issues.

I have a buddy with a Branson bought at the same time as mine. He has fewer hours and has had two warranty repairs on the hydraulic system and one electrical issue. We paid about the same price for our machines.

Just some of the people I have talked to directly.

 

[Edward. S]

All three are Premiums with cabs, bells, whistles....


Is there more to address as to all three having the same issues at the same times? Is this normal for the new generation of Deeres? The annual costs of repairs is just last year, so far this year they are all experiencing the same issue and the repair costs are north of $900.00, and it is still early in the year.

Do all brands have the same issues? Our Case, albiet not a top of the model line, has not experienced any issues. My buddies 5505M has not had any hiccups. My other buddies 5305 has fewer hours than mine, is older, and looks rougher but has not had a mechanical issues. The neighbors 'bota (I cannot remember the number but it is ~100hp) has not had an issue and it is going on two years old. Another friend with a 'bota that is going on five years old, 55HP range, no issues and he adds 50+ hours a year. Plumber buys a new 'bota industrial with a BH every three years and he has had good luck with most of them. One replaced/traded by dealer after repeated issues.

I have a buddy with a Branson bought at the same time as mine. He has fewer hours and has had two warranty repairs on the hydraulic system and one electrical issue. We paid about the same price for our machines.

Just some of the people I have talked to directly.

Can I get some more proof please, it all sounds like word but no proof.

 

[AKfish]

I'm in line with Edward. We'd like a few more details regarding the problem as well as the "repair".

Pretty curious that it seems to be a "recurring" problem. If that's the case; most dealers are generally willing to stand behind their work - oftentimes up to a year. Should not be stringing the charges along; year after year - with no solution!

However, the nature of the problem seems to be computer related - not necessarily a problem with the tractor's cooling system.

And that's the kind of problem... that JD corporate would tackle! Nonetheless, a few more specifics would help all interested parties here on TBN - and it may well be - there's somebody here who had the same problem; and got it FIXED!

AKfish

 

[Edward. S]

I'm in line with Edward. We'd like a few more details regarding the problem as well as the "repair".

Pretty curious that it seems to be a "recurring" problem. If that's the case; most dealers are generally willing to stand behind their work - oftentimes up to a year. Should not be stringing the charges along; year after year - with no solution!

However, the nature of the problem seems to be computer related - not necessarily a problem with the tractor's cooling system.

And that's the kind of problem... that JD corporate would tackle! Nonetheless, a few more specifics would help all interested parties here on TBN - and it may well be - there's somebody here who had the same problem; and got it FIXED!

AKfish

If they're was a problem, they're would be a recall and all sorts of stuff. This problem just sounds like a faulty hydraulic pump. AKFish, this guy sounds like a brand basher, he doesn't know his JD Models, obviously :laughing:

 

[AKfish]

If they're was a problem, they're would be a recall and all sorts of stuff. This problem just sounds like a faulty hydraulic pump. AKFish, this guy sounds like a brand basher, he doesn't know his JD Models, obviously :laughing:

I was wondering about that... Maybe he'll be back with his and everyone else's tractor's blowin' smoke!

The more smoke the better!

AKfish

 

[Edward. S]

I was wondering about that... Maybe he'll be back with his and everyone else's tractor's blowin' smoke!

The more smoke the better!

AKfish

Hes also saying that the loader cant pick up 100 pounds, The loader frames are metal, the bucket or forks or what ever attachments weigh over 100 pounds. So hes lying.. :laughing:

 

[High Brook Hills]

I hope the following is what you were looking for. I would also be sceptical about a "newbie" posting what I have posted. The appearance could be that someone is trying to move business away from a marque. I am not attempting to do that, I have also referenced two Deeres who have not had issues. I'm trying to find/locate a resolution short of junking/selling the tractors and starting over. It just does not feel right to me.

The PTO Switch went out, burned up. Would not turn on until the revolutions were near red line. All three tractors had this issue at same time, two years out of the gate.

Fuel lines are deteriorated and leaking on all three 2008 units. The dealer is claiming the units are in the sun too much and this is causing the fuel lines to wear out early. Tractors are three/four years old, lines are under the hood, and tractors are stored in barns (all of them) and run outdoors in the sun for 100 to 300 hours per year. This does not sound right that all the fuel lines should start leaking so soon in the life of the tractor. Dealer is asking $375.00 in labour plus costs on all the fuel lines. All lines are "soft" braided lines.

All three units are getting air in the cooling system which signals the manifold computer system to shut down. The sensor is showing the system to be running hot and out of water. Each time this happens the sensor is burned out. The dealer explains that this is a long a complicated procedure and they will not disclose the repair. It is running more than $800 per repair. ~$250 parts, ~$400 labor, ~$200 transportation or ~$300 for mechanic to come on site. Each tractor has this problem between February and March each year of ownership and each tractor had this issue last September and October. Same issue, same repairs, same costs. NO fluids on the barn floor! My family's parking barn has concrete floors so the fluid would stand out. The dealer claims the radiator fluid is not low.

These units are having the same issue at the same time every year. One has already traded their Deere for another marque. My family is thinking of doing the same thing after they get the next repair.

The Deere regional rep has refused to assist any of the farms with this issue. The farms all feel this is a design flaw issue.

Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm trying to think of a way to go forward on this. I know the tractor is already about 30HP and 5,000 pounds heavier than they need for their operation. But extra horsepower is ALWAYS something we want!

Cheers,

 

[High Brook Hills]

Hes also saying that the loader cant pick up 100 pounds, The loader frames are metal, the bucket or forks or what ever attachments weigh over 100 pounds. So hes lying.. :laughing:

Edward, akfish,

Be careful in your words. I do not know what you are requiring as proof but read my last post, albeit created after I was bashed by the two of you.

Read what I stated. For example, when 100 pounds is added to the loader it will quit lifting. It IS able to lift it's own weight, frame, and grapple but if you add a post to the mix then the loader will NOT move.

Not a brand basher, tractors are NOT blowing smoke. I wanted to buy a green one but the deal on my American assembled red one was too good to pass.


I have been working so no reply for several days. Give a person a chance to come back and respond. A week, yeah, I'd be giving me a hard time as well. Truth is, you do not know me and you have no way to know if I'm truthful or not. But to call a man a liar and question his knowledge before even listening to the remainder of the story is just short sighted and mean.

 

[Tx Jim]

All three units are getting air in the cooling system which signals the manifold computer system to shut down. The sensor is showing the system to be running hot and out of water. Each time this happens the sensor is burned out. Cheers,

High Brook Hills
JD 276 CID engines have been in production many years. It's an amazing coincidence that 3 of these low houred engines in that close proximity are loosing coolant.

 

[High Brook Hills]

High Brook Hills
JD 276 CID engines have been in production many years. It's an amazing coincidence that 3 of these low houred engines in that close proximity are loosing coolant.

Jim,

I will agree with you, this is NOT what one would expect. I have been doing some research on Deeres solely and have seen many isolated cases of the fuel lines failing in two to four years. This just seems strange to me.

I do not know of the quality of the fuel they are using. I have not inquired if all are buying from same source, but that is a question I will be posing later today.

I wonder if other brands are having the same issue with their fuel lines.

 

[Tx Jim]

Jim,

I will agree with you, this is NOT what one would expect. I have been doing some research on Deeres solely and have seen many isolated cases of the fuel lines failing in two to four years. This just seems strange to me.

I do not know of the quality of the fuel they are using. I have not inquired if all are buying from same source, but that is a question I will be posing later today.

I wonder if other brands are having the same issue with their fuel lines.

Yes I think other brands are having fuel line deterioration problems. I personally don't see the correlation between coolant lose and diesel fuel quality.