Let's discuss herbicide application for foodplots

[HCJtractor]

I have always planted by broadcasting seed after plowing, discing etc. I now have a 5' Truax NoTill drill and also a Allis Chalmers 3 row NoTil planter I just restored. I bought an old Allis Chalmers book on NoTil that was written years ago when NoTil evidently was first being used. (By the way, did you know "No Til" was a patented Allis Chalmers brand name?) By having these, it hopefully will change how I plant and prepare the plots, and maybe save time and allow me to plant when conditions are not ideal and when rain is limited. I read that NoTil conserves precious soil moisture and enhances germination. Yet with NoTil, I see that herbicides are more important since plowing cannot be used for weed control.

My question involves the use of herbicide (Roundup like products). When do you use them in relation to planting, whether it be Spring for corn and beans, or Fall for grains and clover. I know there are also Roundup ready seed that can be sprayed after germination also, but I would be concerned about any residue. So can someone who uses NoTil techniques walk me through this process. When do you spray in relation to when you seed, what are the alternative practices. If you had these two pieces of equipment, how would it be best to take advantage of their NoTil capabilities, to minimize soil preparation? Any advice you can give me about NoTil practices including herbicide usage would be appreciated! I live in upstate S.C.

 

[pjbci]

I plant no-till corn and soybeans with an 8 row planter. I have spray nozzles mounted on th planter so I apply roundup when I plant. Some farmers prefer to spray a wk or so ahead of the planter. Either way will give good results.

Roundup has no soil activity, it only kills plants that it is sprayed on so you need not be concerned about it getting into the soil and hurting your seedlings after they sprout.

I would spend a little extra for the roundup ready seeds so weed control during the growing season will be cheaper and easier.

 

[brin]

I plant no-till corn and soybeans with an 8 row planter. I have spray nozzles mounted on th planter so I apply roundup when I plant. Some farmers prefer to spray a wk or so ahead of the planter. Either way will give good results.

Roundup has no soil activity, it only kills plants that it is sprayed on so you need not be concerned about it getting into the soil and hurting your seedlings after they sprout.

I would spend a little extra for the roundup ready seeds so weed control during the growing season will be cheaper and easier.

Exactly right...I had an extension agent tell me the same thing...no soil residue from round up.

 

[HCJtractor]

In the South, when do you plant corn and beans, what variety do you use for wildlife plots? So roundup ready plants can be sprayed anytime during their growing cycle without any harm? One of my hunting buddies says he would not want to eat deer that had been feeding in a plot sprayed with Roundup. I see his point but I am sure most of our commercially available food products have been affected by lots more chemicals that that.

If I spray a plot a week before planting, would further weed control be necessary throughout the summer and early Fall? Keep in mind this is for deer, not production.

 

[pjbci]

Im in south MS, we start planting corn in early march thru may. If your gonna notill corn wait till your soil temp is 60 degrees. Check it with a little simple auto a/c thermoter available @ auto parts place. Just stick the tip in th ground. Start planting your beans in late may. Im not sure about what variety will do well in your area.

Yes you can spray anytime while its growing. If you are just planting for deer you may not have too spray during growing season. Just dont let weeds take it over.

As far as eating the deer is concerned, im sure your buddy has eaten deer that have been fed roundup ready corn.

 

[pjbci]

Also, you may want to use drill to plant your beans. The beans will quickly shade th ground between th rows helping you with weed control.

 

[Smallplot]

When using non selective herbicides especially with out any prior experience you should spray 2 weeks before you begin working up the plots. This way if you missed any or don't have a good kill, you can re-spray.

I personally like to till then wait a couple weeks for weed growth to start, then spray. After spraying I will plant a few days to a week later.

The same chemicals are used in production of grain that feeds your hamburgers, pork chops, and chickens. Not to mention what is used for vegetables and fruits. The buddy is gonna get awful hungry if he doesn't want to eat something that feeds on plants treated with herbicides.

 

[rambler]

There are different types of herbicides.

Non-selective - like Roundup or groximone, kills most anything green. You can spray these before the planted crop comes out of the ground, or on special GMO crops designed not to die from the spray.

Broadleaf herbicides - like 2,4-D or Banvil or 100's of others, they do not hurt grass crops (corn is a grass....), but kill broadleaf weeds.

Grass herbicides - Select and others - they kill grass plants, but don't hurt broadleaf plants like soybeans.

So, the hard part is killing grasses in a grass crop, or killing broadleaf weeds in a broadleaf crop. For that you need to identify your weeds and pick herbicides that don't kill your crop, but kill some of the weeds you have.

You can tankmix 2 or 3 of the herbicides and apply at special times to make things work on many different weeds at once. But it takes attention to detail and it takes timing. Most herbicides work better on small weeds, 4 inches or shorter. Roundup is different, it kills tall weeds too.

As you can see, using Roundup seeds and Roundup is a lot more foolproof....

Typically you need to spray early, before or right around planting time, and then spray again when the crop is a couple weeks out of the ground. After that the crop probably takes care of itself.

Some of the herbicides will last a while in the soil, couple weeks. Many of them like Roundup do not last, do not affect anything not already sprouted out of the ground.

It's good to use 2 different types of herbicide, so resistance doesn't happen.

If you grow a mix of crops in the same field it can be _very_ difficult to find a spray that will kill the weeds but not the different crops.


That's a very basic quick primer on spraying weeds, an exact plan takes more planning & details, just giving you a big outline so you can ask more questions.

For notill, you need a good nonselective herbicide like Roundup before you plant, and then follow up again with another spray about a week or 2 after the crop comes up. Rarely does only one pass of herbicide work unless you really really study up on what you are doing, and don't have bad weeds to start with.....

--->Paul

 

[HCJtractor]

Thanks for the info Paul!

 

[super55]

Most no-till practices incorporate round-up or any other similar type 41% gly produce. Generally the field is sprayed it usually takes about 10 days for the product to brown and die off. After that planting is usually done. Generally, your going to get some sprout up of new unwanted weeds because the herbicide since it's post emergence and has to make contact with the plant theres some thats gonna get missed so a second spraying is almost always necessary. Hence using Round-up ready seed because about the time new weeds start to sprout is the same time corn and beans will appear usually in the two-three leaf stage is going to be the best time to re-apply.

If you don't already have a sprayer your going to want to invest in one and one with a boom set-up. The boom sprayers put out a finer mist, give better coverage of crops and can spray between row crops to help minimize injury to the plants.

 

[HCJtractor]

I have a small atv sprayer with a boom (25 gallon?) but am contemplating building a larger 3 point model. I was considering a boomless yet realize a boom gives more accurate coverage. Is the difference that great, or would a boomless design suffice if I get a high end boomless nozzle? Some of my roads and plots are tight and a boomless would be way easier to manage, if it would be adequate for my needs.

 

[super55]

I have a 30 gal sprayer that I have rigged up for a spray gun, boomless, and boom that fits in the back of a UTV I just Tee off the main line and put shut off valves on all of them so I can use which ever one I see fit. Fimco sells a 10 foot boom or you could easy make one that fold into storage when not in use.

The boomless does work and from my experience the higher you have it up and can angle it down the better. A lot of them say they will do a 30 ft swath but from my experience it probably safer to say about 15-20 feet. The big difference is that boomless throw droplets instead of a mist due to help control drifting. The other thing is mostly with corn is that if the corn is 10-18 tall and you need to spray your corn is going to block most of the herbicide getting to the unwanted vegetation. Plus certain herbicides like 2,4-D which I doubt you'll use if using RR seed have a tendency to burn corn a little bit so you try to keep it off as much as possible.

For clovers and alfalfa a boomless will work fine since those crops are slower to establish and your weeds are generally taller than your crop when you spray.

Here's I utilize my sprayer.

Wand- spot spraying fencelines or around saplings to kill out the competition.

Boomless- Initial burndown of fields, Clendomiathon for alfalfa/clover plots, Also use it for spraying crop oil on fruit trees by angling it up and driving around the tree.

Boom- Spraying Row crops or a pre-emergent herbicide. Also use this if spraying round-up around pines since they are very tolerant of gly.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

Okay, Here my 2 cents worth since I put in several acres of corn, beans and foodplots every year but up in KY. Roundup only works on green, growing plants and has no soil residual effect. The trick is "green and actively growing" if the air and/or soil temp is low, say below 50, the plant may not be growing much. Likewise the chemical may not get absorbed and translocated to kill both the foliage and the root. Without knowing all the particulars of your situation I'm doing some guessing. I haven't had good results with RR (ROUNDUP READY) corn but RR beans have almost been a godsend. If I plant corn into beans stubble I plant, then apply a pre-emerge herbicide, and then a post emerge as needed. If I plant beans in corn stalks I plant and spray Roundup as needed. Corn seedlings will withstand some frost but beans will not. The University of Ky says that every day after April 15 that corn is planted we lose a bushel per acre yield. I shoot for the first Sat in May to plant beans. If I'm planting in sod field, old pasture or hay field I burn it down with roundup as soon as I can and plant as I would in I stalk field. I rarely work a field down unless I have torn it up some getting a crop out in the fall. I've never sprayed a field(burned down) and then worked it.

 

[Baranx4]

I prefer to spray a pre-emergent and most can be mixed with roundup or generic as well. Here is a link that is pretty informative.

Herbicides - Iowawhitetail forums

 

[Smallplot]

So roundup ready plants can be sprayed anytime during their growing cycle without any harm?

No there are still times while a plant is growing when spraying may cause harm. For instance you can not spray soybeans while they are in bloom. It tends to knock off blooms then no pods.

If I spray a plot a week before planting, would further weed control be necessary throughout the summer and early Fall? Keep in mind this is for deer, not production.

This depends on the kind of weeds you have and if you like to see weeds in your plots. Some invasive weeds can overtake a plot in short order. Foxtail and grasses come to mind. They can easily out compete most plot seeds.

 

[Smallplot]

Most herbicides work better on small weeds, 4 inches or shorter. Roundup is different, it kills tall weeds too.

Paul, just making a clarification here. You provided some top notch info but someone new might get a little confused here. All herbicides will kill both young and mature weeds but all herbicides work better on the younger plants. Roundup/GLY is recommended when target plants are under 6 inches. During my commercial applicator class this year information was given that between 2 and 3 inch plants are the best candidate for RU especially if the target plant is one of the resistant varieties.

If you are spraying mature target weeds, you will have to use the Max application rates and a crop oil or surfactant is a must.

 

[Western]

Just thinking out loud here, but Deer like weeds!! Of course depends on the type, but why make it to "complicated" if it isn't for high production?

Plant runner beans that can grow up the corn and shade out most of the weeds.

 

[Rford]

Just thinking out loud here, but Deer like weeds!! Of course depends on the type, but why make it to "complicated" if it isn't for high production?

Plant runner beans that can grow up the corn and shade out most of the weeds.

Yup...they lived on weeds a long time before we started planting food plots for them....they can't eat fescue and other pasture grasses, but where I've rototilled and killed the fescue and let plain old weeds grow up the deer are in those areas all the time. But its not as much fun growing weeds.

 

[kubotakid USA]

Hi All,
Roundup ready plants are not really effected by roundup in the early stages,. As far as when to spray depends on your sprayer. And the projected groth of the weeds.
I use a low profile sprayer, So I cant use it when the corn is over 18-24" tall. The deal is, You dont spray until the last thing,.. Meaning, If u spray too earily, before the weeds get out of the ground, It wont effect those weeds, That could get a good head of groth before the canapy has formed.
The Ideal time to spray is between the sprayers capacity,.The width of the rows,.30 or 40" wide, And the projected canapy to naturally shade out those plants.

Generally speaking,.You should spray when the corn is about 18/24" tall.
It will kill all the weeds, Before they have a chance to get established, Before, the canapy has formed, And, That will naturally keep the weeds from sprouting/establishing,. Or at least keep them from growing into a nusance.

kubotakid USA

 

[ToddCaron]

Hello and sorry if this has been covered but I have just joined the board.

? I have about 2.5 acres that I planted in clover this spring. Due to the distance between my property and home I was unable to mow it regularly and in fact have only mowed it twice. The clover came up nice and is still present but so are the broadleafs and grass. I'm thinking about either redoing the plot or overseeding. Overseeding seems much easier and less time consuming but I've got to clear off the weeds and grasses. Can I apply 2-4D and arrest at the same time as overseeding or do I need to kill, wait and then seed? Time is tight and I try to make the best use of it to enjoy the property.

Thank you.