Hay baler
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psdx
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Welcome to TBN!
Somebody smarter than I might chime in here, but I'm not sure you will find any bailer that will run satisfactorily on 19.5 PTO hp. I personally haven't run across one that would need less than 30 hp.
Somebody smarter than I might chime in here, but I'm not sure you will find any bailer that will run satisfactorily on 19.5 PTO hp. I personally haven't run across one that would need less than 30 hp.
jpm1
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This is a shot in the dark but a very old New Holland #66 runs nicely. Its a very s l o w Production bailer, real light, and puts out a normal sized bale. Our bales averaged 60 - 80 lb each. Good luck trying to find one that is any good now. Run one for years on a Farmall H. It had no "live" PTO. Run it great. . . .John
the6shooter
Gold Member
The Massey Ferguson line, 1800 series has a 35 hp requirment, but doesn't give the pto requirment. you can use a search for them.
I do know that there are some compact round balers from china, that are around. Might try one of them.
david
I do know that there are some compact round balers from china, that are around. Might try one of them.
david
qed-cat225
Gold Member
here you go, 15HP on the PTO min req
Compact Hay Balers
Compact Hay Balers
rambler
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That's cool to see the little baler.
So long as a person realized you can buy a good used baler for around a grand, and a good used 30-40 hp farm tractor for 4 grand or so, and be baling for $5000. Should you get tired of it, you can sell the baler & tractor for about the same money.
Not sure how the resale price of those off-shore balers holds up, or parts supplies, for $15,000.
--->Paul
So long as a person realized you can buy a good used baler for around a grand, and a good used 30-40 hp farm tractor for 4 grand or so, and be baling for $5000. Should you get tired of it, you can sell the baler & tractor for about the same money.
Not sure how the resale price of those off-shore balers holds up, or parts supplies, for $15,000.
--->Paul
qed-cat225
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yeah, great idea and probably a good sized market for it too but way to expensive!
flusher
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My baler is a Massey Ferguson 124 (small squares, 30-60 inches long, 25-60 lb depending on length and type of crop). The manual says 35 hp pto to run it. I pull it with my 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto).
Balers this size have been run with much smaller tractors--like this Farmall Super A (16 hp pto, the baler sequence is about 5 minutes into the video)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvz8-Sw1ntA"]FARMALL Super A - YouTube[/ame]
You can also find old and new balers that are run by dedicated Wisconsin gas engines mounted on the front of the baler with belts to drive the flywheel. The tractor pto is not required to operate this type of baler. You just need enough engine hp to pull the weight. Two hp gets the job done for this guy
Good luck.
Bigfoot62
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A Super A has a big-bore 4 cylinder engine (3.0" bore x 4.0" stroke) and larger displacement. (113 cu in -vs- 85 for the Bobcat) It will develop it's peak hp a a lot lower rpm than the Bobcat engine. It might be somewhat close in "stated" hp, but I'll bet the A has a bunch more torque.
FWIW, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.
TractorTidy
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The CT225 is too small of tractor to run a baler, both in weight and HP. You have to remember, square balers are made to go on larger heavier tractors. Not only for the hP but because of the momentum that the flywheel produces. It will "push" a small tractor. Also if you're on a hill, that heavier baler can/will push you down. Only in todays world are people trying to run balers w/ compact tractors. Some arre really pushing the envelope. Just because you think it might have the HP, doesn't mean it will handle. Kind of like trying to killl a moose w/ a .22. Not enough gunpower there. It wasn't desingned to do so, just like a baler wasn't designed to run behind a 2000-3000 lb. tractor w/ low hp. In your case, it is both the power and weight.
Like someone said, an engine powered baler might be more conducive, no ptp power required and no centrifugal force to push the tractor. If you're in the IN,IL,OH area, I know someone who has a NH w/ a Wisconsin engine for sale.
Like someone said, an engine powered baler might be more conducive, no ptp power required and no centrifugal force to push the tractor. If you're in the IN,IL,OH area, I know someone who has a NH w/ a Wisconsin engine for sale.
psdx
Gold Member
TractorTidy said:
I not see how there's any centrifugal force from a baler that's pushing the tractor. I think i would call it inertia rather than centrifugal force, but either way I'm not sure I agree.
On an old tractor that doesn't have an independent PTO, sure I get that. But the OP referenced a CT225 that has an independent PTO, so there is no direct linkage between the PTO shaft spinning and the drive wheels turning. The PTO can keep spinning with or without power going to it and it's not going to affect the drive wheels. ...now then - might a heavy load behind a light tractor push it down a hill and create a challenge? Sure, that's something different and it could happen. But I don't understand the centrifugal force thing.
flusher
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It's the reciprocating fore/aft motion of the plunger that's causing the push/pull motion on the tractor. I feel it somewhat with that 3000 lb MF124 baler operated by my Mahindra 5525 which weighs over 6000 lb.
Looking at that Super A video I posted earlier in this thread, I don't see alot of this type of motion even on a small tractor like that Farmall.
Looking at that Super A video I posted earlier in this thread, I don't see alot of this type of motion even on a small tractor like that Farmall.
Hoosier Hay Man
Platinum Member
qed-cat225 said:
That is way cool. I would love to see one run.
Canada_CT230
Platinum Member
The website has videos.
As long as you plan to take your time and limit the number of bales you make, most of the smaller/older balers should be OK. While our 75 HP John Deere was out of commission we used our Ferguson TEA to finish off a field. I would think that the CT225's diesel would out perform most of the older gas tractors that were used in the past. If you can find one, the NH 268 or NH 269 range would be fine for light duty baling.
rambler
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A smaller old $1000 baler takes about 17 hp to run it - to charge up the flywheel.
It takes another 5-10 hp to move it and the tractor through the field.
A 20 hp tractor will sorta run the baler, but it won't be fun. Well underpowered.
Two problems beyond that:
Tail waging the doge - the baler will wiegh more than the tractor, and will eaily get away on you going down a hill. Dangerous. As well the back & foth plunger forces are going to make it a rocking good ride. Baler often has negative tongue weight, meaning it lifts up on the rear of your tractor, making braes or traction even less effective....
And, the driveline on a under 30 hp compact tractor is _not_ designed to deal with a 40 hp flywheel on a baler. That big flywheel on the baler stores power, perhaps 40 hp or so, and the flywheel actually does the heavy pushing. It only takes a little less than 1/2 the hp to charge up the flywheel, but you are truly putting a 20 hp tractor on a 40 hp baler, and it will mash up the pto parts of your tractor in a while.
All around, it would be the tail wagging the dog. If I had 5 acres of hay laying down, my other tractors died, sure I'd hook up the 20 hp compact to the old baler and finish the field before that rain cloud came. It would be possible.
But it would not be fun, it would not be productive, and it would not be good to _plan_ to do this all the time.
My opinion. 30 hp bare min to do a good safe nice job of baling with an older small square baler, and better have a heavier weighted tractor to control the baler as you drive - fluid, wheel weights, something.
--->Paul
It takes another 5-10 hp to move it and the tractor through the field.
A 20 hp tractor will sorta run the baler, but it won't be fun. Well underpowered.
Two problems beyond that:
Tail waging the doge - the baler will wiegh more than the tractor, and will eaily get away on you going down a hill. Dangerous. As well the back & foth plunger forces are going to make it a rocking good ride. Baler often has negative tongue weight, meaning it lifts up on the rear of your tractor, making braes or traction even less effective....
And, the driveline on a under 30 hp compact tractor is _not_ designed to deal with a 40 hp flywheel on a baler. That big flywheel on the baler stores power, perhaps 40 hp or so, and the flywheel actually does the heavy pushing. It only takes a little less than 1/2 the hp to charge up the flywheel, but you are truly putting a 20 hp tractor on a 40 hp baler, and it will mash up the pto parts of your tractor in a while.
All around, it would be the tail wagging the dog. If I had 5 acres of hay laying down, my other tractors died, sure I'd hook up the 20 hp compact to the old baler and finish the field before that rain cloud came. It would be possible.
But it would not be fun, it would not be productive, and it would not be good to _plan_ to do this all the time.
My opinion. 30 hp bare min to do a good safe nice job of baling with an older small square baler, and better have a heavier weighted tractor to control the baler as you drive - fluid, wheel weights, something.
--->Paul
qed-cat225
Gold Member
there are also these guys Square Balers
I ran my NH 479 mower and my JD 14T baler very nicely with my Yanmar 22 hp 4wd tractor with no problems. It didn't have live power, either.
There was no bucking motion with the baler/ tractor unit because the 3pt hitch was tight and not all roached out like most rigs have, the driveline angles and height were set for cv geometry, and the cutoff knives were sharp. That helps keep the flywheel velocity constant, thus no bucking. I've done it. If you haven't then stand back and watch.
I even pulled a wagon (4 place snowmobile trailer) and regularly had a 'helper' put 150+ bales on it on a flat field. I have the video to prove it, too (including the mowing). I used the loader hydraulics to run the header up/down and tongue swing on the mower without any problems, too. Don't expect to run in high gear into a doubled windrow, but it got the job done. I'm soon getting a video converter to get these shots on YouTube, so you can all appreciate that setup.
There was no bucking motion with the baler/ tractor unit because the 3pt hitch was tight and not all roached out like most rigs have, the driveline angles and height were set for cv geometry, and the cutoff knives were sharp. That helps keep the flywheel velocity constant, thus no bucking. I've done it. If you haven't then stand back and watch.
I even pulled a wagon (4 place snowmobile trailer) and regularly had a 'helper' put 150+ bales on it on a flat field. I have the video to prove it, too (including the mowing). I used the loader hydraulics to run the header up/down and tongue swing on the mower without any problems, too. Don't expect to run in high gear into a doubled windrow, but it got the job done. I'm soon getting a video converter to get these shots on YouTube, so you can all appreciate that setup.
