Coyotes - too close?

California · Dec 10, 2011

Going back 60 years we have heard coyotes here very rarely. Now judging from the racket at night, there are maybe a dozen partying right outside my door. Then instant silence and they disappear when I aim a spotlight at the noise.

I assume the coyotes arrived because my new neighbor installed a chicken run at the back of her orchard, right where it drops off into impenetrable jungle in the ravine.

The feral peacock who was here for a couple of years has disappeared. All the gopher holes have excavations where the coyotes (?) tried to dig them out. (Actually I wish all the gophers would disappear). The deer don't seem bothered, they still nap in the orchard rows where we see coyotes at other times. I don't have pets. But come to think of it, I haven't seen neighbors' cats watching any gopher holes recently.

This old guy in the photos below is fearless. I've seen him with a smaller companion, just moving along after he realized that I walked around the barn and found him there. Today he acted the same as a neighbor's cat would, backing off walking in the driveway and detouring into the tall grass when he realized his route would bring him directly to us. Then - like a neighbor's cat - he just looked annoyed that we were spooking the gophers he was stalking, and ignored us as he went on hunting. I don't see any of the wariness typical of wildlife.

Any advice? My neighbor's house and barn are behind the area in the photos (and she's fresh from the city) so shooting that direction from my porch isn't an option.

These pictures were at 100 yards after I went and got the camera. He had been nearly close enough to hit with a rock when we met him in the driveway.

More photos - Coyote Hunts Gophers In Orchard

Tomtint · Dec 10, 2011

Hang a piece of chicken from a bronco and shoot them when they show up for dinner. Those are a huge problem up here as well, we see them in the back yard on a regular basis and they present a potential problem to my family and pets as well.

Branchchipper · Dec 10, 2011

We have always had similar coyote activity and numbers...

We have well-worn, regularly-traveled coyote highways under fence lines and across fields, and they often wake us up at night with an active chorus a few yards from the house (on the closest of their "highways").

We also have a healthy bobcat population- I saw one at mid-morning recently, sunning himself near our cattle. They were totally unconcerned.

Several neighbors raise large numbers of chickens, turkeys, etc; many of us have cattle (including occasional new calves) and everyone has dogs.

Bottom line- virtually no predation problems.

These predators are plentiful and active because of abundant natural prey.

The poultry are all cooped at night. Common sense management of the calves (but no permanent stalls/shelters) seems to work fine. The dogs help out with "guard" activities (mostly barking)(when they bother to stir from sleep).

A neighbor lost a miniature collie during a party this summer (spooked by fireworks), and the assumption was, because of his size and house-dog status, that the coyotes eventually got him.
Instead, he wandered about 3 miles, and turned up at a small store/gas station in a few days, no worse for wear.

I will acknowledge that predators can cause problems, especially for sheep, in the right circumstances. Those circumstances often involve inadequate protection.

But I can tell you, after decades of continuous experience, that the overall "threat" is ridiculously exaggerated.

The State of Oregon did an interesting study a few years back. Two populations of coyotes were tracked; one was actively "controlled," while the other was left alone.

The results were striking: the population that regularly lost members to shooting responded by increasing their birth rates dramatically; "control" actually increased population throughout the range.

yooper1 · Dec 10, 2011

Is this something that a donkey / jackass would help at?

I have seen on TV that many people have a mule / jackass in with the cattle / sheep / animals to ward off wolves. Maybe they would ward off coyotes?

and I realize that the OP may not have a farm per say, but other people with animals might benefit.....maybe?

Tomtint · Dec 10, 2011

Coyotes are at the top of the food chain here, recently fisher cats have shown up in small numbers, those things are a bit freaky. As far as the studies go, they have been conducted here as well and most end up being sponsored by nature conservationists. That can, and as a normal course of business, rort statistics that lean toward their agenda. Bottom line in my book is that if they are on my property, I will do everything in my ability to eliminate them forever.

TripleR · Dec 10, 2011

Agreed, if I see them, I will shoot them regardless of the studies; problem is finding the darned things. We hear them around our house all the time, but just can't seem to catch one out in the open.

Tomtint · Dec 10, 2011

Hang a piece of chicken from a branch, it's like ringing the dinner bell

creekbend · Dec 10, 2011

Around three years, I left Southwest Florida and came to North Carolina. While in Florida, I worked part time as a Taxi Driver. During the hours of 12:00am to 5:00am, I would occasionally have coyotes appear in my headlights while crossing the road. This was in a County of 400,000+. There were entire areas where almost all the pet cats had disappeared. I saw a report on the evening news where a coyote had snatched a man's small dog that he had on a leash while walking his pet. This happened in a neighboring County-Polk in broad daylight. I saw the man on TV while he was being interviewed. Last Spring, while I went down the driveway to check the mail, a lone coyote crossed over from a neighbor's farm and headed toward the creek on our side. I recall a thread in regards to this topic around 4-5 months ago.

forgeblast · Dec 10, 2011

Guard llama

frenchie4x4 · Dec 10, 2011

Here in Pa. we have seen more and more Coyotes. This summer before work I could here one in the yard barking. When I shined my mag light at them I saw my little cat (Stinky) out there. So I ran out there in my socks and sweat pants swinging my Mag light at him. he didn't seem to bothered with me he would just trot along and stop and look back. So I chased him until he disappeared in the woods.
My neighbor also has chickens and has shot some coyotes he even had them on his deck and grabbed one of his cats.
I have also the fisher cats ( I thought they were minks or weasels ) they make an awful screech sound at night. They have run across the road in front of me several times.
I remember growing up as a kid if you saw a wild animal it would run. Today it doesn't seem that way.
Frenchie

Combustix · Dec 10, 2011

I lose ducks and geese to coyotes but have not lost any chickens. The ones at night generally get away with it. The ones during the day end up hanging in a tree to warn their friends. So far this year. Wife 2 me 0

whistlepig · Dec 10, 2011

yooper1 said:
Is this something that a donkey / jackass would help at?

I have seen on TV that many people have a mule / jackass in with the cattle / sheep / animals to ward off wolves. Maybe they would ward off coyotes?

and I realize that the OP may not have a farm per say, but other people with animals might benefit.....maybe?

All the sheep farms around here have a Lama running with the sheep. I am told by several people that a Lama will kill a coyote. I don't know this to be true but there sure is a Lama in about every sheep pasture around here.

toddbiss · Dec 10, 2011

My daughter and I saw this one youth weekend and since we hadn't had a chance to try out her .243 I figured we would see how it would do.

IndyIan · Dec 10, 2011

California said:
Going back 60 years we have heard coyotes here very rarely. Now judging from the racket at night, there are maybe a dozen partying right outside my door. Then instant silence and they disappear when I aim a spotlight at the noise.

I assume the coyotes arrived because my new neighbor installed a chicken run at the back of her orchard, right where it drops off into impenetrable jungle in the ravine.

The feral peacock who was here for a couple of years has disappeared. All the gopher holes have excavations where the coyotes (?) tried to dig them out. (Actually I wish all the gophers would disappear). The deer don't seem bothered, they still nap in the orchard rows where we see coyotes at other times. I don't have pets. But come to think of it, I haven't seen neighbors' cats watching any gopher holes recently.

This old guy in the photos below is fearless. I've seen him with a smaller companion, just moving along after he realized that I walked around the barn and found him there. Today he acted the same as a neighbor's cat would, backing off walking in the driveway and detouring into the tall grass when he realized his route would bring him directly to us. Then - like a neighbor's cat - he just looked annoyed that we were spooking the gophers he was stalking, and ignored us as he went on hunting. I don't see any of the wariness typical of wildlife.

Any advice? My neighbor's house and barn are behind the area in the photos (and she's fresh from the city) so shooting that direction from my porch isn't an option.

These pictures were at 100 yards after I went and got the camera. He had been nearly close enough to hit with a rock when we met him in the driveway.

View attachment 241188 View attachment 241189

More photos - Coyote Hunts Gophers In Orchard

Doesn't sound like you have a problem with them, and they are controlling the gophers for you. We've had chickens free ranging at our place for 7 years and I've only had two coyotes make themselves easy targets in that time, so I did shoot them. We got goats 5 years ago and got two Maremma livestock guard dogs at the same time, and we've never lost a goat. We keep the dogs inside the pasture most of the time so the odd time a few coyotes will do some challenge calls from the other side of the fence but that's all they do. The coyotes won't risk getting into a scrap with a dog 3 or 4 times its size.
Anyways, I'd just enjoy them if I was you. They are neat animals and you'll never shoot all of them anyways now that your neighbor has chickens.

whistlepig · Dec 10, 2011

Before we moved 4 years ago the coyotes there were snatching (and still are) small dogs out of folks back yards. A cat doesn't have a chance there. The coyotes will snatch a small dog while the owner is watching unless the dog is close on a leash. It's inside the city limits. Coyotes do what they want there.

wolc123 · Dec 10, 2011

Although the hides are nearly worthless, thanks to the animal rights folks, there is still a lot of interest in trapping coyotes. That is because coyotes are known as the toughest animal to trap and those folks love a good challenge. If you want to get rid of coyotes around your place, try posting an add for a trapper's services on craigslist or your local classifieds. One thing about trapping coyotes however, is you got to keep it up or they will move back in from the surrounding areas. A good trapper or two can keep coyotes out of any given area as long as he is persistant. While the "wiley" coyote may be tough, he is no match for the accomplished trapper, especially in this day of internet sharing of successfull techniques. Hunting or shooting will do little or nothing to control the population in an area. The female coyotes are smaller than the males, and less agressive, so it is usually the males that fall to the hunters/shooters. The trappers will get a lot of the females, and thus really put a hurting on the overall numbers in a given area.

Bob77064 · Dec 10, 2011

Here in South Central Ky the coyotes are bad. The take small dogs and cats right at the house. They don't seem to be afraid.

kco · Dec 10, 2011

We have lots of coyotes and they pass by most nights (they seem to lie low when bad or cold weather comes in). As long as they don't get too brave I prefer to leave them. I enjoy listening to their conversations when they start out in the evening and regroup in the morning.

We don't have chickens, etc. and we bring the cat in at night--so don't have those worries. But neighbours do and they shoot the coyotes if they come near. I have no problem with that. My neighbours shot one that killed a chicken and left it lying there for a few days as a warning to the others. It was pretty "ripe" when he finally hauled it into the bush.

Two years ago, and three times in one week, I caught my dog out "playing" with a coyote, twice 50 yards out in the pasture, and the third time right on the lawn. I called my dog in (shepherd/lab cross) and acted aggressively to the fleeing coyote. After that I made aggressive movements and noises when the coyotes started calling and moved toward the sound. My dog is now aggressive when coyotes are near and treats them as a threat to be dealt with. Even if there is none around and I say "coyote", she stomps around, growling, with her neck hair up. It's valuable training because single coyotes will lure a lone animal to a waiting pack.

I don't like the trapping idea. There are quite a few trappers around here, and virtually each year someone loses a pet to their traps. It's a cruel way to die and upsetting for the pet owners.

As much as possible I prefer to leave the animals (we have bears, elk, deer, moose, cougars, etc.) and enjoy having them around. I'm fortunate to live in an area where truly wild space FAR surpasses the settled space. No doubt that makes for less conflict too--the animals have lots of space and don't have to meddle with humans.

I'm not trying to argue--just giving another view.

Cheers

Combustix · Dec 11, 2011

toddbiss said:
My daughter and I saw this one youth weekend and since we hadn't had a chance to try out her .243 I figured we would see how it would do.

Looks like it works just fine. That's a good size coyote.

California · Dec 11, 2011

I appreciate the responses I'm seeing here. To summarize, from my point of view:

* I don't have pets or livestock, just orchard, and the coyotes aren't a danger to us personally.

* Let em be, they're just one more part of the natural surroundings along with the birds, deer, racoons, gophers that have always been here.

* Shooting is useless because the females will survive to continue the herd.

* I don't see a need to hire a trapper in my circumstances - operating an orchard - but someone who had livestock and substantial losses might consider that.