well we just took the tractor back to dealer we bought from. Looking at the sub frame we found one weld on each side was broke, not saying this was cause . This may have been from after bolts came out and crack housing. So I will wait till I speak with dealer again before I say to much more.. Sean owner of the shop is going to make it all right one way or another. I do believe woods will be involved in looking it all over.. Sorry for delay, I have been busy and well it was just today we got tractor where it should be.. I was not able to get pics, I will look for another way to show you all what I am talking about.. So it may be a few days till I hear something from Sean so we will wait.. On another note the other dealer will not be getting my business in the future.
broke dk55, BOOO Kioti
- Thread starter Kaw
- Start date
- Views: 17707
LD1
Epic Contributor
This right here is the most important.:thumbsup: Regardless of who's fault it is, it certainly isnt yours. And I think he understands that and will take good care of you.
Given the circumstances, I cant say I blame the other dealer, so DONT be too hard on him. If it clearly says kioti will NOT warrenty the tractor with aftermarket hoe, and if that dealer isnt a woods dealer, his hands are tied.
It isnt his fault the situation you are in, so why should he have to eat the cost of the repair and then have to fight like h#LL to get money from kioti or woods??? Just doesnt seem fair does it?
That would be like me buying a cord of wood off your neighbor, and him shorting me, and then me comming to you and wanting you to make it right at no charge to me:confused2:
dourobob
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2002
- Messages
- 670
- Tractor
- Wheel Horse 522xi
As has been stated by a few folks here, in order to have this resolved it is necessary to get the right folks talking to each other. It looks like that is finally happening.
Dealer sounds like he will come through for you "one way or another" - seems like the best outcome possible.
Dealer sounds like he will come through for you "one way or another" - seems like the best outcome possible.
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 16,647
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
I agree with LD1 on both counts. Your original dealer seems to have the right attitude and the second dealer really doesn't deserve to be punished for his response.
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
2nd the above. YOU, the OP, chose to bring your tractor to the dealer who was closer to you, partly because he answered the phone faster then your selling dealer. No problem, until you expect him to repair something that has absolutely nothing to do with your tractor; an unapproved implement which may have been incorrectly installed. You are new to the tractor game, as was I when I began learning about my tractor(s) here about 2 1/2 years ago. What I would suggest doing, if I were in your situation is this: During the time your tractor and any implements are under warranty go to your selling dealer exclusively for any warranty repairs, (or possibly under the dealer's 'discretionary coverage', to make things right for you if he makes a mistake period. He is the only dealer who may extend you this courtesy as a purchasing buyer of his, therefore it benefits you/him most to land at his door. Once that time frame is over if you were to choose to go to another dealer who was closer to you that would be your choice. I would not burn any bridges because of how the closer dealer dealt with you in this instance, but that's just MHO.
And, BTW, it's human nature, especially in an economy like the current one, for dealers of ANYTHING to protect themselves and their customers, and then help others who come through their doors. Not saying it's right, but it is the playing field we as customers are dealt.
kco
Veteran Member
It seems like all will be resolved and you have a good dealer.
It will be interesting to hear what they determine to be the verdict as to the root cause. As you said, did the bolts come out and break the weld, or did the weld break and pull out the bolts?
Whatever the case, this seems like another reminder to regularly check for loose hardware--particularly for major components (such as loaders, backhoes) that attach into the frame. That reminds me--I haven't thoroughly checked mine the last few times!
No doubt this is obvious to more knowledgable TBN members who grew up operating equipment, but something "hobby operators" (like me) can learn the "easy way" through experienced members' advice.
Since we focus on a tractor's operating manual, we may miss requirements for added equipment. For example, we purchase a tractor with a loader and may not thoroughly read the loader's manual. The Kioti KL 401/351 loader manual says to visually check loader mount hardware "Daily/10 hours" and to re-torque every 25 hours.
I may have missed or played-down this requirement if it weren't for an incident when I took delivery of my tractor. The dealer was fixing a DK90 where the owner had found loose loader bolts, retightened them with a 3/4" impact wrench, and broke off some heads. He wanted it repaired under warranty. I don't know what the decision was on that.
The incident made me aware of the checking/re-torquing requirement. I have 200 hrs on the machine and found a bolt or two that turned slightly (i.e. not loose) during the first few checks. I discussed it with the dealer and he said they are now installing loaders with blue threadlocker/loctite. I reinstalled all my loader frame-to-casting bolts with blue loctite.
frenchie4x4
Bronze Member
Well Kaw keep your head up Kioti makes a great tractor. The DK55 is well built and you rarely hear of any issues with them.
In 2004 when I was ready to purchase my local dealer where I had previously test driven and looked at different models was out of stock. I could not wait so I bought off the internet several states away. When I had two warranty issues my local dealer ( Wertz power and equipment ) simply filled out new warranty papers and transferred every thing to there dealer ship and I never paid out anything towards the warranty.
Since then I have purchased a new Kioti backhoe BH2385 from them with a subframe mount and have never had any other issues.
my DK50C is 7 yrs old and aprox 800hrs and still works and looks like New. So let the dealer resolve and fix it and enjoy your Kioti with faith. I just came in from using mine (boy its muddy this year) I would definitely buy another Kioti.
(waiting for the power shifts to com to the USA)
Have a great day Frenchie.
In 2004 when I was ready to purchase my local dealer where I had previously test driven and looked at different models was out of stock. I could not wait so I bought off the internet several states away. When I had two warranty issues my local dealer ( Wertz power and equipment ) simply filled out new warranty papers and transferred every thing to there dealer ship and I never paid out anything towards the warranty.
Since then I have purchased a new Kioti backhoe BH2385 from them with a subframe mount and have never had any other issues.
my DK50C is 7 yrs old and aprox 800hrs and still works and looks like New. So let the dealer resolve and fix it and enjoy your Kioti with faith. I just came in from using mine (boy its muddy this year) I would definitely buy another Kioti.
(waiting for the power shifts to com to the USA)
Have a great day Frenchie.
5030
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 28,967
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
I would have gotten a mouthpiece and had a field day with that. The Magnuseon-Moss Act and it's U.S. Supreme Court verdict specifically bars any OEM from voiding or disallowing any warranty claim for using non OEM lubricants so long as the said lubricant meets or exceeds the OEM engineering standard for that engine or drivetrain.
That, however, don't count on backhoes and my only comment is a backhoe, especially a 3 point mounted backhoe can put substantial strain on castings in the rear section of a tractor, possibly cracking them or breaking them unless the proper and approved subframe is installed properly and maintained properly.
I have no issue with Kioti or any other manufacturer disallowing any warranty claim arising from damaged or cracked components when a non (OEM)engineering approved backhoe is attached.
The OP should have bought and installed a Kioti Approved unit. he didn't and in my opinion, has no recourse other than to open his wallet and chalk it up to being cheap at the outset.
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,540
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
Au contraire. Woods and/or the selling dealer should take care of it if this issue was caused by a Woods backhoe or by an incorrectly installed subframe.
Aaron Z
Well, first off I am not new to the tractor game. I have run tractors and other machines for a very long time. Not as long as some on here but long enough.. The dealer not wanting to warrenty parts is not the only reason I wont be going back.. More to it than I care to say on here, and with that I wont say any more its a long story..
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Sorry, I have to disagree with this part of your post. Kioti can refuse to pay for damage caused by another manufacturer's backhoe or other implement, but CANNOT dictate what the OP must use or buy and attach to their tractor. I'm not saying that is what you said; just that expecting the OP to buy a Kioti branded hoe is what Kioti might like to see but doesn't remove the OP's choice to buy another brand, and he should not be faulted for doing so. That said, IMHO the selling dealer should have to disclose that doing so eliminates any coverage by the tractor mfg.
Let's say the Woods hoe was more money than the Kioti, would you still argue that the OP should have bought the Kioti brand? Or that Woods was the mfg. for the Kioti branded hoe. No matter what it is up to the buyer to beware and face the consequences of conflicting product warranties. Hence the term: Caveat Emptor, buyer beware!
In the OP's specific situation the selling dealer is responsible for the sale to the OP of a separately warrantied bhoe, not covered by the tractor mfg. if damage occurs to the tractor as a result of using it on the tractor.
Woods would be responsible it it's bhoe caused damage IF properly installed on the tractor, by the authorized dealer.
Here is another manufacturer restriction on the retail buyer: I just bought an '011 Toyota Forerunner. It is available with a performance package, special air filter and various items, that CANNOT be sold until after the initial sale of the vehicle to a retail buyer, and it cannot be financed in the vehicle cost amount!
I do not know why, and have never seen any similar restriction until just last week?!:confused2:
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
Sorry to have assumed you were new to the tractor 'game'
Went by the number of posts- my bad.
So, where are you from? Signature gives no clue? Don't have to say, but it helps for us to help you and so on...
Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction.
Too bad you've had dealer troubles beyond this situation.
5030
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 28,967
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
That will depend ENTIRELY on what entity installed the hoe and/or subframe (if indeed there was a subframe).....
As usual, the OP is leaving out details that profoundly act on the final outcome and is making a carte-blanche statement as to their attitude/opinion concerning Kioti Tractor, when. in fact, there are a lot of missing parts to the puzzle, parts that predicate the outcome and the opinion garnered by people reading this thread.
I can say from first hand experience (I owned a hoe at one time that I had mounted on a Kubota with a Kubota dealer installed (and correctly I might add) subframe and I can state firsthand that, that particular hoe exterted enough strain on the 3PH in some situations, to sever the weld that attached the sway chain to the clevis. Happened more than one time, most likely due to my actions concerning the backhoe and it's operation, however, I know first hand about the forces applied to the back end of a tractor with a hoe.
Now, if there was no subframe, or if there was (a subframe) and it was installed by the dealer, the OP or whomever, incorrectly (or if there was none), I could see major damage being done to the castings/3ph components because I fully understand the forces that can be applied.
So, my questions are...
Was there a subframe?
Was the subframe installed correctly and by whom?
Was the hoe correctly sized for that particular machine?
If the hoe was installed by the OP, did the OP installe it correctly or wing it?
Did the OP check the fastener torque and tightness of the subframe (if one was installed at all)?
Finally, did the OP use the hoe in such a way as to apply damaging forces to the tractor or the tractor components.... (by that I mean it's entirely possible and quite feasible to apply severe lateral forces by using the hoe to move the unit or by using the hoe as a prying tool. The forces acting on the bucket, through the hydraulics are magnified back through the hoe frame and linkage, into the tractor itself.
I really have no dog in this game other than to state there are major pieces of the puzzle missing and the OP making blanket statements that are clearly prejudiced (in my view).....
Don't own a Kioti but I'm reasonably certain they are a fine machine. I'm just a Kubota person......
LD1
Epic Contributor
I agree 100%. And it sounds like the dealer is going to take care of him:thumbsup:
Not really. All the peices of info we need to know are here. He had the right sized backhoe WITH a subframe installed by the selling dealer who also sells woods, and advised him that the woods BH was a better unit. Now the BH broke his tractor. I dont see any fault or wrong doing by the OP. Dealer....maybe??? Maybe for not disclosing the info about the warrenty, or possibly faulty installation, but it sounds like they are going to make it right.
The way I see it, it is pretty straight forward. All the peices we need to know are here:
1. OP bought a DK55 from dealer A.
2. OP wanted a BH for the DK55
3. Dealer A reccomended a Woods 90x as he felt it was a better hoe than kioti's
4. OP agreed and had dealer A install Woods hoe, unaware that it would void his kioti warrenty
5. Only 50hrs of use and tractor broke
6. OP took it to dealer B as he says Dealer A is hard to get ahold of.
7. Dealer B doesnt want to get into the middle. As it clearly states that kioti warrenty is voided. And Dealer B may or may not deal in woods equipment.
8. OP calls Dealer A and says bring it to me and I will make it right.
9. It sounds as if dealer A is going to get the OP back up and running without it costing The OP any money.
10. Dealer A may get his $$ from either kioti, or woods, or just decide to eat the cost. It all depends on what they find as the cause.
........10a. If it was inproper install, I thinkthey will eat the cost
........10b. If it was something wrong with the hoe/mount, they will probabally pressure woods to pay
........10c. If it was faulty kioti parts/castings, they will probabally pressure kioti to pony up
KAW: Does that pretty much sum it up????
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,540
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
Coyote machine
Super Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,663
- Location
- Southern VT
- Tractor
- 22 SANY SY 50U, '10 Kioti DK 40se/hst KL-401 FEL, loaded tires, KB-2485 bhoe, Tuffline TB160 BB, Woods QA forks, MIE Hydraulic bhoe thumb & ripper tooth, Igland 4001 winch, & GR-20 Log Grapple. Woods BBX72" Brush Mower. Diamondplate aluminum canopy
One correction to this line of thinking: points # 4 & 7, Kioti does NOT VOID their warranty, they just do not offer coverage on NON- Kioti attachments, or any damage to the tractor as a result of use of same.
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 16,647
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
Yes, he did deserve that little dig.
Never hurts to read back a few posts before jumping to conclusions. To be fair it was kinda confusing and LD1:thumbsup: did a great service summarizing the issues and history in a way that we should all follow. It is real easy to get tied up in opinions or thoughts before establishing and outlining the facts for all to see.
