Backhoe HW04X BH Hose Connection Problem

[Smalljobs]

Maybe someone has come across this before. I'm trying to attach my new HW04X supply hose to the pump but the hose has a 90 degree end with a male thread, 18 mm in diameter. None of the two adapters that came with it can accept this male hose. Since the pump face only has four holes and a smooth bore, I can't thread it into the pump housing.

 

[Affordable]

I have this fitting that will bolt to the pump and goes to a JIC 8, but you will still have to get the end of your hose changed to a JIC to match it

https://affordabletractorsalesco.co...picid=2861&category=ZL-20&sub_category=&scid=



Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Smalljobs]

Tommy - Tks. To All - Tommy has already bailed me out twice with this project.

I'm considering the same idea but taking it a step further. The local hydraulic shop won't touch the hose so I've looked at Ronald's JIC 6 adapters. Folllowing that I can make up a whole new hose with reusable ends. I'd go right from the valve assembly back to the pump with my own hose. At the pump I'll use something like you showed me. I already machined up a spacer block that allows me to add a pressure gage next to the pump so that I can adjust the pressure relief valve. It won't be difficult to add and NPT and JIC connections.

I'm not yet familiar with minimum orifice size JIC 6 versus 8 and how this relates to what I have now in the hose?

 

[Affordable]

Steve, I also have this hydraulic block that bolts to the pump, that has NPT and could be drilled and tapped for a gauge very easy

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Smalljobs]

Tommy, that block looks like it will take the 18 mm dia male thread that's on the end of my hose. If so, I'm alll set and I won't have to make up a new hose. Whoops - you said NPT. Is that large port on the top NPT or straight 18 mm?

I'll phone Jerry this morning.

 

[Smalljobs]

I now have a positive ID on the hose that came with the backhoe. Jinma first sent me the WRONG PUMP. It was an engine mounted pump and not the correct BH pump. So it it only makes sense they'd send me the matching hose for the incorrect pump... making it now the wrong hose for the correct pump.

Here is a picture of the hose from the backhoe connected to the wrong pump. It's a straight thread.

I need the 1) correct BH supply hose or 2) some sort of adapter, or 3) make up my own new hose with JIC on each end and then adapt JIC to the correct pump.

 

[Smalljobs]

I think I'm all set now and will post pictures when done. Thanks to the guys at Affordable and Ronald at Ranch Hand Supply, I can get this solved.

Affordable came up with the right adapter block but I decided to make up my own pressure hose. Ronald supplied adaptors that I will use on the valve assembly block. I'll make up my own hoses with reusable ends from Discount Hydraulic Hose. I'm also adding a return filter based on an earlier link from Bob Rooks.

It would have been cheaper to use Affordable's block but I prefer to move away from the Chinese hose entirely on the pressure side because it gives me more options in the future.

 

[Smalljobs]

While awaiting hose parts and fittings I swapped ideas with Graham at Bolton Power, local Jinma dealer, and we wondered if I could swap front or back cover plates from the two pumps I have? If I took the rectangular mounting plate off the correct CBN-E310 backhoe pump and mounted it to the other pump CBN E3, I could then use the wrong hose that came with the backhoe AND have more flow. The bolt patterns holding the pump bodies and cover plates seem the same although the engine mounted pump has smaller diameter bolts.

Has anyone ever tried to mix and match these? The engine pump delivers more volume and the body length is slightly longer, otherwise everything looks the same.

 

[Bob Rooks]

While awaiting hose parts and fittings I swapped ideas with Graham at Bolton Power, local Jinma dealer, and we wondered if I could swap front or back cover plates from the two pumps I have? If I took the rectangular mounting plate off the correct CBN-E310 backhoe pump and mounted it to the other pump CBN E3, I could then use the wrong hose that came with the backhoe AND have more flow. The bolt patterns holding the pump bodies and cover plates seem the same although the engine mounted pump has smaller diameter bolts.

Has anyone ever tried to mix and match these? The engine pump delivers more volume and the body length is slightly longer, otherwise everything looks the same.

Are the gears the same size (length, diameter, shaft diameter) and the same number of teeth? You will find that you already have more than ample flow. In fact we'll be talking restrictors soon.

 

[Smalljobs]

I think but am not certain all is the same except gear length. I think I will leave it all alone and wait for my JIC connectors and Ranch Hand adapters to arrive and then I'll use the standard BH pump and just replumb the pressure and return lines. The 3/8" hose JIC connector orifices are only slightly larger than the OEM Chinese orifice measured at the hose end.

 

[RonMar]

In fact we'll be talking restrictors soon.

My HW-03 has restrictors in it on the boom swing circuit. The straight 18MM to ORFS adapters used where the hoses connect to the swing circuit working ports on the valve are only about 1/16" in diameter... All the other adapters are nearly 3/8"I.D. Found this when I turned the valve around during my reconfigure. Bucket curl moved real slow, and boom swing was so violent that it felt like it would roll the tractor over Even with restrictors, boom swing is a little faster than I would like. Been looking at perhaps adding lines and ports to the single acting swing cylinders to make them double acting, to nearly double the fluid volume needed to deliver a given ammount of boom swing...

Factory pump that came with mine has plenty of flow for my needs... I typically run the BH at around 1500 engine RPM.

 

[Smalljobs]

Ron...Tks.
Jinma informed me this AM they will send me the correct hose (after all my effort to eliminate their hose ). Looks like I'll have plenty of hoses and spare parts.

 

[RonMar]

Ron...Tks.
Jinma informed me this AM they will send me the correct hose (after all my effort to eliminate their hose ). Looks like I'll have plenty of hoses and spare parts.

Nothing wrong with spares Steve, you will use them eventually

 

[Smalljobs]

Things are humming along. Jinma advised me that several hoes were sent out with the wrong pump and hose. They already sent me the pump and the hose is on the way.

Meanwhile I'm staying on course to switch over to NPT/JIC for the pump pressure output line. This photo shows the barstock adapter to make the transition. It also shows the reusable hose end I plan to use. The pressure gage will be used during setup and later plugged. On the other end of the hose I already have a high quality adapter from Ronald at Ranch Hand and it will allow me to connect JIC directly to the BH valve assembly.

All the return filter components will arrive today. I picked up a 20 GPM filter with 10 micron cartridge. Bob Rooks...thanks for the link. It will be plumbed to 3/4" from filter outlet back to the tank. A 3/4" NPT coupling is welded to the tank inlet return fitting and the banjo is gone. Lastly, another one of Ronald's adapters will allow me to swap out the Chinese return line and connect my own JIC hoses directly from the BH valve assembly to the filter inlet.

 

[Smalljobs]

The tank return connection is done. A 3/4" coupling was cut at 2/3 to keep the center hex and it was welded on the tank where the banjo is normally connected. The banjo bolt is handy for holding the coupling in place during welding. Since the banjo bolt still fits, it might come in handy later.

Now I have a 3/4" line ready to pipe back to the 3/4 " filter outlet. Filter is 20GPM, 10 micron. Industrial rubber hose, hose barbs, etc. will be used to connect the filter outlet to the 3/4" NPT tank return connection.

 

[RonMar]

The tank return connection is done. A 3/4" coupling was cut at 2/3 to keep the center hex and it was welded on the tank where the banjo is normally connected. The banjo bolt is handy for holding the coupling in place during welding. Since the banjo bolt still fits, it might come in handy later.

Now I have a 3/4" line ready to pipe back to the 3/4 " filter outlet. Filter is 20GPM, 10 micron. Industrial rubber hose, hose barbs, etc. will be used to connect the filter outlet to the 3/4" NPT tank return connection.

That ought to work good. I initially did the same thing, and welded a street elbow over the banjo port to allow me to hook up a larger line from filter outlet to tank. Besides reducing the pressure spikes I was seeing at the filter, it also quieted the pump down. I think this was due to less air being entrained in the reservoir by the original narrow high velocity fluid stream caused by the small bore banjo bolt. The larger, slower velocity return stream into the tank puts less air bubbles into the reservoir fluid, so less air is sucked into the pump inlet.

Hydraulic fluid holds air bubbles very well. I had occasion to drain my BH reservoir the other day to add a longer pump suction line. I drained the system by disconnecting the pump output line where it connects to the valve inlet. I routed this line to a bucket and started up the tractor to let the pump move the fluid into the bucket. That line shooting straight stream into the fluid in the bucket put a ton of tiny air bubbles into the oil, that because of oil viscosity were very slow to work their way to the top...

Sounds like you are about ready to put her to work

 

[Smalljobs]

We have "Liftoff" ! Today I swapped out the Chinese high pressure and return lines with my own hoses made with reusable fittings. It began with high quality adapters from Ronald at Jinma Dealer, Wood Chipper , Compact Jinma Tractors

These little adapter fittings are high quality, packaged well, and really made my life easier. Pictures below show the high pressure inlet side of the valve assembly but I did the same for the return. The picture scale makes them look smaller than the original Chinese hoses but, in fact, the ID is slightly larger.

The inline return filter-directly-to tank is in.

Finally, I backed the tractor with the subframe up close enough to mount the pump, connect hoses, etc. I now have maybe 4 bolts holding the hoe to the subframe - enough to move it off the metal pan of the angle iron crate. All systems are go. So far, no leaks and no real problems except for an oversize O-ring on the suction connection. I snipped it to length and installed it anyway. Later, I'll replace it. For now, I just want to get it up and running and debug any remaining surprises.

Over the next few days, I'll check and adjust the relief valve, secure the filter line, retighten all bolts, make a bracket to hold the return filter, etc.

 

[Smalljobs]

We had 12" snow for Halloween but BH is done! I might use my extra remotes, front and rear, to add a thumb later.

 

[RonMar]

Hey, you may have already figured this out, but when the BH is installed, be carefull when flipping the ROPS down like you have to, to say get in thru a standard garage door. When I was installing my BH initially, I had to lower the ROPS to get it out of the garage. The ROPS, and top, when flipped down to the rear, pushed the BH controls tothe rear and pinned my BH boom down controls. The boom went down, the tractor rear went up and really pinned the controls as the tractor rear rose into the air... Got the engine shut down pretty fast, otherwise it could have been real ugly... Had to crack a hose fitting to let the boom lower the tractor back down.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Good thing you have quick reaction time, Ron!:thumbsup: