Document preparation fees--RIPOFF

[grsthegreat]

When i purchased my Dodge ram diesel in 1994, i had all the prices and options agreed upon ahead of time, and the price negotiated. I get to the dealer with the checkbook and deposit money (i took a loan out way back then...stupid me) I COME TO SEE ALL THESE ADDITIONAL FEES ON THE BILL....Document prep fees, window tinting fees, undercoating fees.

I started to argue that these were not talked about, i did not want undercoat and tinting. They just did it and tried to get me to pay for them. And it added up to alot of money.

So the wife and I got up and walked out. He chased us into the lobby, and decided he'd just throw these things in for nothing....big of him (not)

I wonder how many suckers they swindled doing this. It still pisses me off.

 

[4Rook]

fargo salesman - YouTube

The OP's original fee of $50 seems valid, because the dealer provided a service for the fee. I'd gladly pay someone fifty bucks to run to the DMV.

My Kubota dealer charged a $20 fee for public record filing. Since there is no title transfer it is the "official" record of the transaction. It was disclosed at the time we shook hands on the price.

I pressed my nose against the windows of some new cars on Sunday. Dealers in the Bangor Maine area are charging 250-350 for a Doc fee. At least they're not trying to sneak it in on the contract. It is prominently displayed next to the window sticker with the new total. Doc fees are pure profit for the dealer and something that should be negotiated as part of the sale.

 

[buck12]

I guess I should have mentioned before that the "out the door price" or total price is the only thing I negotiate for. So I don't really care what they put on the paperwork as long as the bottom line is what we agreed on.

A few times in years past, it's been comical watching some young salesman trying to calculate backwards from a total price to figure tax, title, license, and base vehicle price.:laughing:

I do the same as Bird. One car dealer said they were required to charge a $400 documentation fee. I told him fine as long as the price did not go up.

 

[JJZ 109]

I don't know about other states, but in New York many times a dealer will simply bundle a bunch of new registrations/title apps together and ship them out to a DMV in a county other than their own for processing.
Apparently many times a more rural county isn't so busy as a metro area and has a much faster turnaround time.
The processing county pockets more money from the state for the transaction and the dealer gets the documents back to the customer without physically sending an employee to DMV.
Dealers that do that must really rake it in from their "document fees". They aren't paying anyone to travel to DMV and stand in line to do anything.

 

[JDgreen227]

I don't know about other states, but in New York many times a dealer will simply bundle a bunch of new registrations/title apps together and ship them out to a DMV in a county other than their own for processing.
Apparently many times a more rural county isn't so busy as a metro area and has a much faster turnaround time.
The processing county pockets more money from the state for the transaction and the dealer gets the documents back to the customer without physically sending an employee to DMV.
Dealers that do that must really rake it in from their "document fees". They aren't paying anyone to travel to DMV and stand in line to do anything.

OP here, that is exactly what my situation was, the dealer didn't have to send anyone to the DMV office, just mail in the papers and mail the new plates etc. to owners.

4Rook....must be really nice to have $50 to throw away on nothing. Service? I can get to my local DMV and back in 30 minutes for $5 worth of gas and be in and out in 5 minutes...I live in a mostly rural county.

But if you go to the DMV office in the township my in-laws live in, it is a 45 to 60 minute wait.

 

[DAY]

Reading these comments reminds me of the movie "Fargo"
-We buy cars every once in a blue moon, but these guys sell them every day

 

[4Rook]

OP here, that is exactly what my situation was, the dealer didn't have to send anyone to the DMV office, just mail in the papers and mail the new plates etc. to owners.

4Rook....must be really nice to have $50 to throw away on nothing. Service? I can get to my local DMV and back in 30 minutes for $5 worth of gas and be in and out in 5 minutes...I live in a mostly rural county.

But if you go to the DMV office in the township my in-laws live in, it is a 45 to 60 minute wait.

I just read your signature line.. now I understand...

So i guess you wont be getting the TruCoat either?

 

[ToadHill]

Never had a problem with document fees but I bought a used car once and told the salesman I wanted it inspected before I picked it up. When I got there the sticker was on it and the tires were all almost bald.

I told him I wanted one last test drive before I handed over the check. He got in the car and I drove it about 300 yards to the local police station. I got out and asked one of the officers to check my tires to see if they were legal.

The salesman sat there stammering. When the tires didn't pass I asked the officer what I could do to report the dealer for issuing a inspection sticker on a vehicle that should not have passed inspection. He told me it wasn't a problem because he'd report it to the state department of inspections.

We went back to the dealership and they put on 4 new tires. I read in the paper about 2 months later that the dealer had lost its inspection license.

 

[MoKelly]

Never had a problem with document fees but I bought a used car once and told the salesman I wanted it inspected before I picked it up. When I got there the sticker was on it and the tires were all almost bald.

I told him I wanted one last test drive before I handed over the check. He got in the car and I drove it about 300 yards to the local police station. I got out and asked one of the officers to check my tires to see if they were legal.

The salesman sat there stammering. When the tires didn't pass I asked the officer what I could do to report the dealer for issuing a inspection sticker on a vehicle that should not have passed inspection. He told me it wasn't a problem because he'd report it to the state department of inspections.

We went back to the dealership and they put on 4 new tires. I read in the paper about 2 months later that the dealer had lost its inspection license.

Wow. That is a great story.

MoKelly

 

[RollingsFarms]

Another trick they will do is have those extra fees already printed on the documents you sign so it appears as they didn't add them on at the last minuite and it's standard procedure for everyone to pay. I have a feeling they do this to take alot of heat off the salesman so you cant blame him since it's already on the document.

I had a little fun with the local Ford dealer one time. They tried to charge me that extra $250 documentation fee/dealer prep fee and when I went to sign the papers I crossed through it and the final price and deducted the charge, then wrote in the new price we had initially agreed upon and signed my name. I handed it back to the salesman after I did my little magic trick and he almost didn't catch it. We went back and forth about me paying for the extra charges or not and I ended up walking. I now drive a GMC if that tells you anything.

The dealer I buy from doesnt jerk you around like alot of them do. I deal with one salesman and have bought a car and a truck from him so he knows he has my business because he is square with me. He also will let you test drive any vehicle on the lot by yourself for as long as you want.

 

[LD1]

He also will let you test drive any vehicle on the lot by yourself for as long as you want.

Kinda interesting you mention that too. I absolutly HATE a dealer that insists the salesman must ride with you:confused2: I will NEVER buy a vehichle from a dealer/salesman like that.

I have purchased roughly 8 vehichles in the last 5 years from dealers. Some used, some new, and test-drove many more.

The last car we purchased for my wife in 2008, we had narrowed it down to a Nissan Sentra, Honda Civic, and a Toyota camry. All three of these cars got roughly the same MPG and were within a few $$ of each other. Buying new ofcourse.

We made a trip to a town around here that had ALL three dealers. (less running around). Actually the one dealer was a Nissan AND toyota dealer, with a Honda dealer 5 minutes down the road.

I went in open minded. This would be the wifes car. I told here we would NOT discuss price and I told here NOT to make a decision until we drove ALL 3.

After driving the Sentra and Camrey, we both agreed that the Nissan Sentra was a better car. So on to the honda dealer we went. Salesman almost didnt give us the time of day. Was really reluctant to even want to go on a test drive. Something about "keeping the miles as low as possible". After he finallay agreed to test drive one, it wasnt event the car we were interensted in:confused2: It was a different color and a stripped down version as opposed to the power options and trip computer we wanted.:confused2:

Anyways, he comes out with the keys, jumps in the drivers seat and says get in.:confused2: He said it is their policy to go with us, And that he would take us down the road, and then we could drive back. We went a whopping 0.2miles down the road, where he got out and my wife drove back. I had to sit in the back BOTH times He never even offered to let me sit up front.

When we got back to the dealer, I told the salesman that the car was exactally what we were looking for. But I kindly thanked him for making mine and my wifes decision very easy NOT to buy it and to buy the Sentra instead. Where the salesman tossed us the keys and said take as long as you need.

Needless to say, we went back to the Nissan dealer and struck up what I thought was a very fair deal. And the we joked about the way the other salesman treated us. He said that we were not the first customers to return from that Honda dealer with the same complaints.

I'm sorry, But I am not going to drop $18k on a new car that I cannot even test drive above 35MPH:confused2:

 

[johnrex62]

Strong negotiation skills are a lost art among most of us. We are just not willing to walk away.

My best deal ever was an 83 Pontiac 6000 I bought "new". I was still wet behind the ears and thought I knew how to handle myself. :laughing:

I went into a dealership to look at used cars, didn't see anything I liked and the salesman walked me by the new selection. I wasn't interested, but politely looked at the specials. He showed me a 2000 and it was nice, but over priced. He showed me the 6000 and it was much nicer and just as overpriced. I told him the new cars were just out of my pocket reach. He countered with the "What would it take to get you into the 6000?" line. I jokingly replied "give it to me at the price of that 2000 over there".

My first clue should have been when he came back 5 minutes later and said "We can do that." The following Monday I saw it listed in the paper at the price I bought it for. Exactly the same. I had just paid full advertised price before the ink was even laid on paper.

My second clue should have been when signing the papers he casually mentioned "Since the miles on this car are just over 3K due to demos, we have to classify it as a used car, but the financing rate will stay the same."

I did catch on after my 5th trip to the service center for an undiagnosable condition where the engine dies at highway speed anytime the temperature got above 90 degrees in San Antonio Tx.

When they replaced the engine under the drive train warranty and four days after the warranty expired the transmission went out from "unrelated causes" I saved someone else the grief and had it junked.

It was the most expensive great deal I have made thus far in my life.



I was privileged to watch a coworker's wife run a dealer through the wringer on the purchase of their new truck. She went in with a list of features and prices she was willing to pay and refused to budge on any part of her list for over 6 weeks of back and forth. Her husband was a wreck and would have caved on the initial counter. She stayed the course, even down to everything on her list but an extra $6 on one option. She walked out saying that is not what I told you I required. The got the deal as she specified down to the penny 4 days later when the owner of the dealership intervened and signed the deal.

I wish I had known her years before at the Pontiac dealership. :laughing:

 

[grsthegreat]

Its all a big game . I usually can get a deal if i walk out, but not always. I almost got a 2008 Chevy 1 ton extended diesel, but we were about $750 apart from what they wanted and what i was willing to part with. Neither side would budge...even though i offered cash on the spot. The wife and i got up to walk out and the salesman just shook my hand. I thanked him for his time, and left. Didn't make the deal, but it was still fun to try.

If they would have dealt, it would have been a great deal, but i made a better deal on my Ford just days later.

 

[Bird]

Kinda interesting you mention that too. I absolutly HATE a dealer that insists the salesman must ride with you:confused2: I will NEVER buy a vehichle from a dealer/salesman like that.

I would never buy a vehicle if I wasn't allowed to test drive it. However, I don't care if the salesman goes along. I'm not going to do anything to his car that I mind him seeing.

Maybe my attitude in that regard is different because of my having been a police officer. Way back in the mid-60's we had a rash of thefts in Dallas as a result of people taking cars for test drives. Back then it was common to allow customers to test drive cars without anyone from the dealership accompanying them. The "potential customers" were driving out of sight to an accomplice and they were stealing the spare tires and jacks from the trunk of the cars. The salesmen usually didn't check and didn't know the things had been stolen until that vehicle sold and the new buyer found no spare and no jack. And of course by then he didn't know who had taken it for a test drive.

I've also seen cases in which the potential customer arrived in a junker, took a nice car for a test drive and never came back with it.

Of course, it's a different matter if they know you. My Ford dealer has certainly let me take vehicles out for a test drive alone. I don't know if that's policy with all their customers or not.

 

[LD1]

I would never buy a vehicle if I wasn't allowed to test drive it. However, I don't care if the salesman goes along. I'm not going to do anything to his car that I mind him seeing.

Maybe my attitude in that regard is different because of my having been a police officer. Way back in the mid-60's we had a rash of thefts in Dallas as a result of people taking cars for test drives. Back then it was common to allow customers to test drive cars without anyone from the dealership accompanying them. The "potential customers" were driving out of sight to an accomplice and they were stealing the spare tires and jacks from the trunk of the cars. The salesmen usually didn't check and didn't know the things had been stolen until that vehicle sold and the new buyer found no spare and no jack. And of course by then he didn't know who had taken it for a test drive.

I've also seen cases in which the potential customer arrived in a junker, took a nice car for a test drive and never came back with it.

Of course, it's a different matter if they know you. My Ford dealer has certainly let me take vehicles out for a test drive alone. I don't know if that's policy with all their customers or not.

It was just his whole attitude about "keeping the miles down". I really didnt need to test drive the car, my wife did. What upset me was only being allowd to go 0.2 miles and not more than 35 MPH, AND me not getting to sit upfront.

PLUS the whole "trying to be a salesman" why we were in the car. Telling us about this and that and why it is a good car. Spare me that crap. Let US test the car and IF we have questions we will ask. I dont think my experience would have been quite as bad if the salesman had just tagged along in the back seat and kept his mout shut. And let us get upto highway speed a little farther down the road.

Would they like it if I rode with them when they tested my trade, and telling them how great the vehichle is, and "check this out" and "check that out", and oh, btw, you cant go over 35 and I get to drive it first.

It just put a bad taste in my mouth and he lost a good opportunity at a sale. Because my wife DID like the car. We probabally would have been negotiating and that AND the Sentra and bought the one we felt we got the best deal on. As it turns out, the Civic wasnt even a contender ONLY because of the Salesman.

 

[Bird]

It was just his whole attitude about "keeping the miles down". I really didnt need to test drive the car, my wife did. What upset me was only being allowd to go 0.2 miles and not more than 35 MPH, AND me not getting to sit upfront.

PLUS the whole "trying to be a salesman" why we were in the car. Telling us about this and that and why it is a good car. Spare me that crap. Let US test the car and IF we have questions we will ask. I dont think my experience would have been quite as bad if the salesman had just tagged along in the back seat and kept his mout shut. And let us get upto highway speed a little farther down the road.

Would they like it if I rode with them when they tested my trade, and telling them how great the vehichle is, and "check this out" and "check that out", and oh, btw, you cant go over 35 and I get to drive it first.

It just put a bad taste in my mouth and he lost a good opportunity at a sale. Because my wife DID like the car. We probabally would have been negotiating and that AND the Sentra and bought the one we felt we got the best deal on. As it turns out, the Civic wasnt even a contender ONLY because of the Salesman.

Of course I agree with you about all that.

 

[ultrarunner]

I would never buy a vehicle if I wasn't allowed to test drive it. However, I don't care if the salesman goes along. I'm not going to do anything to his car that I mind him seeing.

Maybe my attitude in that regard is different because of my having been a police officer. Way back in the mid-60's we had a rash of thefts in Dallas as a result of people taking cars for test drives. Back then it was common to allow customers to test drive cars without anyone from the dealership accompanying them. The "potential customers" were driving out of sight to an accomplice and they were stealing the spare tires and jacks from the trunk of the cars. The salesmen usually didn't check and didn't know the things had been stolen until that vehicle sold and the new buyer found no spare and no jack. And of course by then he didn't know who had taken it for a test drive.

I've also seen cases in which the potential customer arrived in a junker, took a nice car for a test drive and never came back with it.

Of course, it's a different matter if they know you. My Ford dealer has certainly let me take vehicles out for a test drive alone. I don't know if that's policy with all their customers or not.

As a kid, my favorite part was taking the car out for a test drive with the customer... sure was better then washing 65 cars or cleaning the interiors or seeping the lot... also, most customers were not adversarial to a 9 or 10 year old. A few times, I had to actually drive a couple of stick shift cars... because the customer absolutely couldn't start on a hill... really like the center parking brake because I could apply the brake so the driver could get started.

Anyway, what you said is absolutely true... Spare Tires, Switch Wheel Covers, Siphon Gas, Take the manuals... which is why most everyone keeps them in the office now... even small things like cigarette lighters would disappear.

At one time, the insurance company would only pay liability if the car was out on a test drive unaccompanied... that later changed when two salesman were robbed and one killed when the car customer was stealing the car.

 

[ultrarunner]

As to sales staff... sometimes they are their own worst enemy.

A very well to do friend had decided to buy his wife a new sports/luxury car... he was thinking of a Porsche, Audi, Lexus or Corvette.

First choice was a Porsche Convertible and he quickly crossed Porsche off the list after Dealership policy prohibited test drives... he looked the guy in the face and said you really don't expect me to spend 65k on a car without a test drive and was told Porsche Drivers know what they want and test drives are not necessary.

Getting discouraged, most part because of Sales Staff... rude, indifferent, not knowledgeable... they were ready to call it a day when they noticed a Mercedes Dealer down the block and decided to take a look... they had not considered Mercedes.

Walked in and looked at the red convertible SL in the showroom... salesman came up and apologized saying he was with a customer and it might be 15 minutes till he could get back to them and opened the car so they could get a better look.

So 15 minutes later he comes back and says he is at their disposal... they talk and said the car had just caught their eye in passing and they really hadn't considered Mercedes.

Salesman said they really should drive one to see if they like it because some people don't care for the firmer ride... after a moment, they decided why not...

Salesman started moving the cars to get it out of the showroom... my friends were surprised... salesman said it's not much of a test if it isn't in the car you're thinking about... he let my friends know he would be there till 6 and to try it for a few hours if they wanted... didn't even verify license or insurance.

They bought the car with a check when they came back... never would have happened it the salesman wouldn't have been so accommodating and no pressure... any of the other Dealers could have had the sale...

It's been a couple of years and every Christmas they get a personal note from the salesman thanking them for their business...

 

[schoolsout]

OP here, that is exactly what my situation was, the dealer didn't have to send anyone to the DMV office, just mail in the papers and mail the new plates etc. to owners.

4Rook....must be really nice to have $50 to throw away on nothing. Service? I can get to my local DMV and back in 30 minutes for $5 worth of gas and be in and out in 5 minutes...I live in a mostly rural county.

But if you go to the DMV office in the township my in-laws live in, it is a 45 to 60 minute wait.

So, it is free to register a trailer/vehicle where you are? Just as long as you get it there?

 

[schoolsout]

And as a disclaimer, I sell commercial trucks. There is so little profit in most of what we do, customers that haggle and want $500-1000 off are kindly explained that that is the profit level...if they don't want it, go buy a Ford...