Removing rod guide help

[Deere Runner]

I have a JD 100 loader and I'm trying to replace the seals but I'm having trouble removing the rod guide from the cylinder. I have removed the snap ring, but can't get the guide to come out. It will spin freely on the rod, but apparently it's not threaded because it will not unscrew. I have also tried to use the rod as a slide hammer and it still won't come out. Is there some kind of secret to remove the guide?

 

[wdchyd]

Welcome to TBN

There's much talk here if you do a search on cylinder repair....

This thread may help......

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/200927-rebuilding-lift-cylinders-deere-420-a.html

Hope this helps....

Bill

 

[kennyd]

And this one: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../202514-replacing-front-seals-john-deere.html

 

[Deere Runner]

Sorry Kenny, I wasn't very clear in my first post. My problem is removing the rod guide from a hydraulic cylinder, not working on a hub. Thanks

 

[Deere Runner]

Welcome to TBN

There's much talk here if you do a search on cylinder repair....

This thread may help......

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/200927-rebuilding-lift-cylinders-deere-420-a.html

Hope this helps....

Bill

Thanks Bill,
My cylinder doesn't look exactly like the one in the link, but I will see if the seal kit has something similar so as to remove the guide. It didn't appear to just looking at the package. I will look again. The diagram for that cylinder in the loader manual shows an outer split ring that I have removed as well as one thats up inside the tube around the guide. I tried to shine a light up into the crack between the guide and the tube, but I could not see the ring. Also, don't see a way to get a tool into the narrow opening even if i could see it. I really see nothing else on the diagram that could prevent the guide from coming out other than that ring.

 

[kennyd]

Sorry Kenny, I wasn't very clear in my first post. My problem is removing the rod guide from a hydraulic cylinder, not working on a hub. Thanks

No sir, you where very clear! I linked the wrong thread

Try this: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/122281-jd-hydraulic-cylinder-rebuild-help.html


Now, you may have a different type cylinder, post a picture if you can please.

Also, I am not familiar with a "100" loader and could not find it in jdparts?

 

[Deere Runner]

No sir, you where very clear! I linked the wrong thread

Try this: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/122281-jd-hydraulic-cylinder-rebuild-help.html


Now, you may have a different type cylinder, post a picture if you can please.

Also, I am not familiar with a "100" loader and could not find it in jdparts?

My tractor is an early 80's model 1250 with a 100 loader. I think it's actually a Yanmar tractor.
I have seen several references about using the orange plastic thing to remove the guide, but I didn't see one in the package. I haven't opened it for fear that it may be the wrong one and I may need to return it. I will open the package tonight and see if there may be something similar just a different color.
One question I did have about where to put the orange plastic thing was does it go in the groove that the outer snap ring came from or is there another groove somewhere inside the tube?
I am going to be kind of off and on working on this because I will be going out of town this weekend, so it may be a few days before I can post some pics. Hopefully I can get it figured out without much more trouble.

 

[kennyd]

Your cylinders may use a "retaining wire" and not the internal expanding ring that we assumed they did...a picture would confirm for us.

The plastic thingy (technical term) goes inside the bore. After removing the external ring, the guide is pushed down into the bore, then you would see the groove that catches the internal expanding ring. Filling this groove with the plastic thingy allows the ring to slide past the groove.

I can look again at jdparts later when I get to my PC.

 

[Deere Runner]

Your cylinders may use a "retaining wire" and not the internal expanding ring that we assumed they did...a picture would confirm for us.

The plastic thingy (technical term) goes inside the bore. After removing the external ring, the guide is pushed down into the bore, then you would see the groove that catches the internal expanding ring. Filling this groove with the plastic thingy allows the ring to slide past the groove.

I can look again at jdparts later when I get to my PC.

The manual for the loader shows a diagram with a second ring attached to the guide, but I just can't see it up inside the tube. I will check the package when I get hope and see if there is a "thingy" in the kit.

 

[Ken]

Your cylinders may use a "retaining wire" and not the internal expanding ring that we assumed they did...a picture would confirm for us.

The plastic thingy (technical term) goes inside the bore. After removing the external ring, the guide is pushed down into the bore, then you would see the groove that catches the internal expanding ring. Filling this groove with the plastic thingy allows the ring to slide past the groove.

I can look again at jdparts later when I get to my PC.

kennyd.
Is there a place where can purchase the plastic guide for removing the internal slide ring.?
I have 2 packages of repair parts and this ring is good only for one use.
At 40 bucks a pkg. these parts could be used.
Works good when it is used but if something moves when pulling it is damaged and requires a total pkg. to continue the repair.
ken

 

[kennyd]

kennyd.
Is there a place where can purchase the plastic guide for removing the internal slide ring.?
I have 2 packages of repair parts and this ring is good only for one use.
At 40 bucks a pkg. these parts could be used.
Works good when it is used but if something moves when pulling it is damaged and requires a total pkg. to continue the repair.
ken

I am not sure Ken, when I did my 4 cylinders I used just one of the thingys, not sure why you say you can only use them once? You could try a Bondo like material to fill the groove, just be sure to clean it out well before re-assembly.

Maybe Bill (wdchyd) can comment on how hydraulic shops handle this because I am sure they don't buy the kits from the dealers.

 

[Ken]

I am not sure Ken, when I did my 4 cylinders I used just one of the thingys, not sure why you say you can only use them once? You could try a Bondo like material to fill the groove, just be sure to clean it out well before re-assembly.

Maybe Bill (wdchyd) can comment on how hydraulic shops handle this because I am sure they don't buy the kits from the dealers.

After 1 use the material is mashed to point of not able to compress the seal to remove.
Never thought Bondo would be strong enough. some one must of found a second location for this one part.
Thanks for reply
ken

 

[kennyd]

DR: I found them on jdparts. These are the dump/curl cylinder you are working on correct?

There are two different ones used depending on the serial number. They both show two snap rings.

 

[wdchyd]

Many different styles are used by JD.....

the one requiring the orange ring (or bondo) is the type where you remove the "suck-back ring" (outside snap ring) and the inner ring does not expose itself when tapping in the gland......the orange ring (or bondo) will fill the groove to allow the inner (hidden) ring to jump the retaining groove, then it will smack out with a BFH

the other more common type will expose the inner ring after the suck-back ring is removed .....thinking you have this style Deere Runner.......just tap the gland in enough to make clearance for internal ring to clear and remove

Ken, we use the bondo trick routinely as the seals we have are all stocked individually (not prepackaged seal kits)......purchasing directly from suppliers allows us to sell seals not stocked at local equipment dealers.....

we just have to stock all the different in-between sizes to achieve good results and can be very competitive with OEM for the same exact seals...

 

[Deere Runner]

Thanks for the info wdchyd.
On the second, more common senario, there is no need for an orange ring to be inserted, correct? I hope not because my kit (AW21653) did not include one.
I will be out of town for a few days, so I will give it a shot next week.

 

[Deere Runner]

DR: I found them on jdparts. These are the dump/curl cylinder you are working on correct?

There are two different ones used depending on the serial number. They both show two snap rings.

Kennyd, mine is the boom cylinder. The kit is AW21653. The diagram of my cylinder also shows two snap rings.

 

[wdchyd]

a couple of close-up pics would help to determine which ones you have..:thumbsup:

 

[wdchyd]

Thanks for the info wdchyd.
On the second, more common senario, there is no neet for an orange ring to be inserted, correct? I hope not because my kit (AW21653) did not include one.

Yes......

 

[Deere Runner]

Okay, I finally got back around to this project last night and ran into another problem. I was able to fill the ring grove with bondo and slide the rod guide back into the tube. I then could see there was another clip about a quarter inch up inside the tube. I'm now having trouble removing the ring. Can someone help?

 

[wdchyd]

The style you have doesn't require the bondo trick...if you had pushed in the gland and this retainer disappeared inside the cyl, then you would have needed to fill this groove in the cyl with bondo (or the orange ring in the kit) to allow the retainer to jump the groove....

You need something pointy and sharp to get up underneath round retainer ring, then get another hook style tool to pull out ring....junky old screwdrivers modified are great canidates for this task

It'll come out, you just need some BSAI (bull strength and ignorance), maybe a few new cuss words helps too.....:laughing: