Okay so I still have many trees to cut on my property as well as on friends property's and my neighbors. I was wondering if you all can give your different techniques for bucking a tree that is flat on the ground because today I kept getting pinched as well as hitting the ground. I use wedges to free the pinches but these trees are to big to lift by hand to get something underneath them for bracing. Any advice?
Cutting techniques...
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LD1
Epic Contributor
There are 2 things you need to understand.
1st, NEVER let the saw touch the dirt. It will dull it instantally.
2nd, you have to know what part of the log is in tension and what part is in compression.
If the bottom of the log is in tension and top in compression, and you cut top down, you will pinch, as you have figured out.
IF there is clearence underneath, cut from the top JUST unitl you start to see the gap close up. STOP. Pull out and undercut.
The reverse is true it the top is in tension and bottom is in compression.
Just be MINDFUL at ALL times when cutting. Know WHERE things are going to move/settle once you make the cut.
And honestly, it is very difficult cutting large trees without some equipment, like a tractor/loader. Because what we do, in a case like yours where you cant cut all the way through because of dirt/pinching: cut as much as you can until the gap closes or you have to stop to stay out of dirt, then move on to the next cut, and so on. ONCE you have all the cuts made, use the tractor to "roll" the log over.
And if you dont have equipment, you can use a peavy or cant hook. you can google both to see what I am talking about. But they dont work well on really LARGE logs.
And a final tip, always start with the smallest part of the tree. NEVER start cutting at the base first. Cut up all the limbs and get the brush out of the way. When you get ALL the limbs cut that you possibly can, then start on the base. Reasons for this are:
1. Limbs in the air are easy to cut as opposed to on the ground.
2. It makes the base/trunk less likely to move when cutting it, due to limbs sticking out and up in the air.
3. It makes the base easier to roll IF you cant cut all the way through, as described above.
I know all that is alot to take in. IF you are unsure about anything, or have more specific questions, please just ask. A chainsaw is a VERY dangerous tool in the hands of an in-experienced operator. And that is NOT meant to insult you. It is meant to encourage you to PLEASE ask if you have ANY doubts at all about what you are doing. I would rather you ask a "stupid" question, rather than just try something and end up getting hurt.:thumbsup:
1st, NEVER let the saw touch the dirt. It will dull it instantally.
2nd, you have to know what part of the log is in tension and what part is in compression.
If the bottom of the log is in tension and top in compression, and you cut top down, you will pinch, as you have figured out.
IF there is clearence underneath, cut from the top JUST unitl you start to see the gap close up. STOP. Pull out and undercut.
The reverse is true it the top is in tension and bottom is in compression.
Just be MINDFUL at ALL times when cutting. Know WHERE things are going to move/settle once you make the cut.
And honestly, it is very difficult cutting large trees without some equipment, like a tractor/loader. Because what we do, in a case like yours where you cant cut all the way through because of dirt/pinching: cut as much as you can until the gap closes or you have to stop to stay out of dirt, then move on to the next cut, and so on. ONCE you have all the cuts made, use the tractor to "roll" the log over.
And if you dont have equipment, you can use a peavy or cant hook. you can google both to see what I am talking about. But they dont work well on really LARGE logs.
And a final tip, always start with the smallest part of the tree. NEVER start cutting at the base first. Cut up all the limbs and get the brush out of the way. When you get ALL the limbs cut that you possibly can, then start on the base. Reasons for this are:
1. Limbs in the air are easy to cut as opposed to on the ground.
2. It makes the base/trunk less likely to move when cutting it, due to limbs sticking out and up in the air.
3. It makes the base easier to roll IF you cant cut all the way through, as described above.
I know all that is alot to take in. IF you are unsure about anything, or have more specific questions, please just ask. A chainsaw is a VERY dangerous tool in the hands of an in-experienced operator. And that is NOT meant to insult you. It is meant to encourage you to PLEASE ask if you have ANY doubts at all about what you are doing. I would rather you ask a "stupid" question, rather than just try something and end up getting hurt.:thumbsup:
rekees4300
Elite Member
+1 for LD1
Jmidjr
Member
Great response, LD1!!!
Two more reasons to start w branches and limbs working smaller to larger (if I may he so bold, not knowing half as much as you):
- you reduce weight and bulk from one end, sometimes reducing binding if trunk is not flat on the ground.
- you remove obstructions/ trip hazards. Stop often and clear the cut stuff from your work area. I once saw a fellow trip and fall while cutting up a large oak branch that fell across the road. You don't want that to be you.
Be safe. Listen to LD1.
Two more reasons to start w branches and limbs working smaller to larger (if I may he so bold, not knowing half as much as you):
- you reduce weight and bulk from one end, sometimes reducing binding if trunk is not flat on the ground.
- you remove obstructions/ trip hazards. Stop often and clear the cut stuff from your work area. I once saw a fellow trip and fall while cutting up a large oak branch that fell across the road. You don't want that to be you.
Be safe. Listen to LD1.
Will_C
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That was a great response! Tryand release as much compression as possible-cutting smaller branches, cutting part way through and moving on to your next cut, if you are not trying to buck for logs, making a V cut to relieve compression can sometimes alow you to finish the cut-and remember, wedges and loaders are your friend.
Will
Will
Carl_NH
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Wow LD1 you nailed it!
I read the whole things and said, yup, did that, yup, that log did roll towards me when I wasnt thinking.. Great stuff and great advise.
I can also add, when working in trees down in the woods leaning into other trees or jammed be very-very careful. When in downed/lodged/jammed trees take away all loose brush and make an escape route before you cut. Have a partner/helper tie off any suspect branches/logs or use the tractor to support / countersupport and push the way you want it to go.
If it looks like its dangerous, it is.. dont take chances, get help or step back and figure out a safer way.
I read the whole things and said, yup, did that, yup, that log did roll towards me when I wasnt thinking.. Great stuff and great advise.
I can also add, when working in trees down in the woods leaning into other trees or jammed be very-very careful. When in downed/lodged/jammed trees take away all loose brush and make an escape route before you cut. Have a partner/helper tie off any suspect branches/logs or use the tractor to support / countersupport and push the way you want it to go.
If it looks like its dangerous, it is.. dont take chances, get help or step back and figure out a safer way.
Jim Thompson
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LD1 is dead on. The only thing that I would add is: keep your chain sharp, don't force the saw, keep the RPM up and let the saw do the work.:thumbsup:
Jim
Jim
turnkey4099
Elite Member
I agree that mosst of his advice is good. #1 tho is totally wrong. Touching dirt (unless it is rocky) does NOT "instantly dull the chain". It will shorten the time before you have to resharp but with care you can hit dirt and still keep cutting for a long time.
Technique that has worked for me doing 6+ cords/yr for over 30 years.
1. examine the log. Very rarely is then never a spot where it is clear of dirt somewhere, usually several places. If there is one, cut rounds almost all the way throuigh until you reach one and then roll the log to complete the cuts.
2. If you will have to cut into dirt: Cut 3 or more rounds down to almosst the dirt INSERT wedge if the kerf starts to close or even before if you know it will close.
3. If cutting dirt is unavoidable, complete the last cut: watch and feel as the saw nears the bottom and then start 'babying' the throttle to keep the chain barely turning. Roll cut section of log and finish prior cuts.
4. As last resort, carry and extra loop or two so you can swap out to finish the days work. I hate 'touching up' a chain in the field. Swapping them is much faster.
Harry K
Technique that has worked for me doing 6+ cords/yr for over 30 years.
1. examine the log. Very rarely is then never a spot where it is clear of dirt somewhere, usually several places. If there is one, cut rounds almost all the way throuigh until you reach one and then roll the log to complete the cuts.
2. If you will have to cut into dirt: Cut 3 or more rounds down to almosst the dirt INSERT wedge if the kerf starts to close or even before if you know it will close.
3. If cutting dirt is unavoidable, complete the last cut: watch and feel as the saw nears the bottom and then start 'babying' the throttle to keep the chain barely turning. Roll cut section of log and finish prior cuts.
4. As last resort, carry and extra loop or two so you can swap out to finish the days work. I hate 'touching up' a chain in the field. Swapping them is much faster.
Harry K
LD1
Epic Contributor
I guess there are a few things that can determine HOW you interpret this:
First, I am used to ALWAYS running full chisel. Semi-chisel (semi-round) and chipper (round) chain can tolerate a little dirt.
Second, is how you interpret what "sharp" and "dull" means.
To me, a sharp chain will pull its own self through the wood with NO added pressure from the operator or dawging in and pulling up on the rear handle. And to ME, a dull chain will NO longer pull itself along.
BUT, what I just described as a "dull" chain WILL still cut wood of you put pressure on or dawg in. But that is bad practice as both the chain and bar will NOT last as long. The chain/bar get hotter than normal, which has less than desired results on life expectance.
On the other hand, some people believe that a chain is only dull when it absolutly will no longer cut no matter how much you try to force it. I am NOT one of those people and that is bad practice.
But I can tell you from experience, that once a chisel chain touches dirt, even for a fraction of a second, it will no longer pull itself through the wood.
You did have great advise about slowing down though before you exit the cut. A very slow chain speed when/if hitting dirt wont hurt it, but at WOT, you're done.
And again, this is with chisel. I dont use anything but, so I can only comment as to what I have heard/read. I dont know what the OP is using either, but given the two saws, MS250 and MS290, I am betting it probabally isnt chisel. But it is still good practice to treat dirt like it were steel. And chainsaws DONT cut through steel
A big factor with hitting "dirt" is actually how much sand/grit is part of the "dirt" sand is nothing but little rocks. Clay etc. does much less damage to a chain/bar than earth with more sand etc. Either one can clog the oil ports on a bar though.
LD1
Epic Contributor
IMO, the point is moot.
It is as simple as....DONT HIT THE DIRT. In MANY years of cutting firewood, downed trees, tops, etc to the tune of 25-30 cord per year, I have NEVER been in a situation where I HAD to go into dirt. There are ways/techniques around that. Hence: why the OP is asking questions. And simple answer is...NO its NOT ok to cut into dirt.
Well, I guess I shouldnt say never, because cutting stumps/roots below ground level is a different story. And even when clearing ALL the dirt possible, you have to change chains VERY frequently.
Fortunatally, we dont cut stumps very often.
It is as simple as....DONT HIT THE DIRT. In MANY years of cutting firewood, downed trees, tops, etc to the tune of 25-30 cord per year, I have NEVER been in a situation where I HAD to go into dirt. There are ways/techniques around that. Hence: why the OP is asking questions. And simple answer is...NO its NOT ok to cut into dirt.
Well, I guess I shouldnt say never, because cutting stumps/roots below ground level is a different story. And even when clearing ALL the dirt possible, you have to change chains VERY frequently.
Fortunatally, we dont cut stumps very often.
I agree with LD1 I hate it when the chain will no longer pull itself through I feel that that is bad for the saw and unsafe for me if I am putting a lot of effort into the cuts I will become fatigued faster. One thing I did find on line is the use of a peavey with a log stand attached... Does anyone have any experience with that?
LD1
Epic Contributor
Excellent attitude to have:thumbsup:
Yes. I think I mentioned it im my firsr post. They are excellent for the smaller stuff. The stuff that is too big to pick up by hand, but not too big.
I find anything over about 16-18" just becomes too difficult to pull up on the stand with that type of peavy. But if you get one without a stand, or removable stand, they will work for larger stuff, but 3-4 foot stuff, you really need a tractor, or a LOT of guys to move around.
LD1
Epic Contributor
No apologies necessary. It was a bit of a long post. I usually try to refrain from making such log posts, because I personally dont like reading them etiher. But there was SOOOOO much to cover
If the majority is under 20", I think you will really like the peavy
tungularafishcamp
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Not sure what kind of saw pulls itself thru wood?
After many years of using of using a crosscut saw for my firewood, I decided to upgrade to one of those newfangled chainsaws:cool2:
The guy at the store said I could cut a couple of cords ez in a day but try as I might I could only cut 3/4 a cord and I could beat that with my crosscut ez
Took it back to the store and complained and the guy showed me how to sharpen it so I tried it again and after really working really hard I barely cut a cord the next day
I took it back in wanting my money back. The guy took the saw and pulled a little rope thingy and the saw let out a puff of smoke and made a loud roaring sound! "What the he// is that noise I asked him" :confused2::confused2::laughing:
Rick
After many years of using of using a crosscut saw for my firewood, I decided to upgrade to one of those newfangled chainsaws:cool2:
The guy at the store said I could cut a couple of cords ez in a day but try as I might I could only cut 3/4 a cord and I could beat that with my crosscut ez
Took it back to the store and complained and the guy showed me how to sharpen it so I tried it again and after really working really hard I barely cut a cord the next day
I took it back in wanting my money back. The guy took the saw and pulled a little rope thingy and the saw let out a puff of smoke and made a loud roaring sound! "What the he// is that noise I asked him" :confused2::confused2::laughing:
Rick
I appreciate all the info I wanna learn as much as I can! And LD1 you seem to have tons of experience with this stuff so another question I have for you is how to store my firewood? We bought a wood stove about 3 years ago and have been playing around with different ways of storing it and haven't figured out any great ones yet... Any suggestions??
Not sure what kind of saw pulls itself thru wood?
After many years of using of using a crosscut saw for my firewood, I decided to upgrade to one of those newfangled chainsaws:cool2:
The guy at the store said I could cut a couple of cords ez in a day but try as I might I could only cut 3/4 a cord and I could beat that with my crosscut ez
Took it back to the store and complained and the guy showed me how to sharpen it so I tried it again and after really working really hard I barely cut a cord the next day
I took it back in wanting my money back. The guy took the saw and pulled a little rope thingy and the saw let out a puff of smoke and made a loud roaring sound! "What the he// is that noise I asked him" :confused2::confused2::laughing:
Rick
old joke and PC cleaned up, but still funny :laughing:
reminds me of the one about the "two guys" fishing and the outboard falls off and sinks
