Problem on a steep hill(diesel)

[clytle374]

Have a year old BCS 852 with the Kohler diesel on it. One of it's main purposes it to flail mow steep hillsides. Haven't used it much for mowing and I just started the steep stuff today.

So I'm on this hill with the top to the left and the tractor starts smoking and revving up badly. Sure it was running on its own oil, I got it turned down the hill and into high gear going though brush. It cleared out and ran correctly after that.

Going to check in a few minutes that the oil wasn't over filled. I don't see a crank case breather so I'm not sure how that would happen. Trying to relax a bit now.

Thanks
Cory

 

[wstr75]

According to a conversation I had with Joel of Earthtools, you came close to blowing up your diesel. You are correct, your diesel began running off its fuel which puts it in an overspeed condition. Joel says we diesel owners should never go past the top mark on the dipstick. He also says the only way to stop a runaway diesel is to shut off the air. Joel says rip your shirt off and smother the air cleaner inlet if necessary to shut off the engine.

You were on top of your game and thinking fast by getting it turned around and in high gear!

Bill in NC

 

[clytle374]

I knew it was blowing up. The oil was not even to the high mark! Sadly I don't think there is a way to smother that air cleaner out. I did manage to load the rpm down until the oil cleared.

Well the oil is on the low side. I took the triangle shaped piece off the rocker cover and found a rubber diaphragm and spring. The assembly looks to regulate the flow into the intake to maintain a certain crank case pressure relative to the atmosphere. It was full of oil.

I guess I'll take the valve cover off completely and see why it was picking up oil since it was on the high side of the hill.

Thanks
Cory

 

[clytle374]

Here is a picture of where the oils getting in at. The center hole drops into the intake runner, almost on top of the intake valve. But again this was the high side of the engine. Maybe the rocker cover filled with oil because of something like the only drain being on the left. ???

When we first got this tractor we discussed we were getting it do to the hills around here. I read the manual for the diesel and it talked about running it on an angle, I called Joel concerned about it and he said not to worry because if it lost oil pressure it would shut off.

I never considered it being able to get a hold of its own oil, I've seen a WV rabbit blow up from that happening, since I never saw any sort of pvc system on it.

Now, is this normal? Or is there something wrong that is causing the oil to get into there?

Thanks
Cory

 

[clytle374]

Just tried smothering the engine with a shirt. Can't do it with that air cleaner.

Calling Joel now. Crap, that diesel is almost useless to us now.

Cory

 

[clytle374]

The machines are mutinying around here. The wire on the solenoid just broke off since they forgot to crimp onto the insulation and only did the copper.

I'm going to call Joel tomorrow. He's always been a good guy, but I know the first thing he's going to think is that I over filled it. Heck, that was my first thought too. Well thought someone else must have put oil in it, I knew I didn't overfill it. I guess if he doesn't believe me, I'll take it too him and he can watch it blow up.

AUGH
Cory

 

[clytle374]

Talked to Joel today, he said the motor has hydraulic lifters and they should float before the engine blows up.

Anyway, I'm going to take the valve cover off to eyeball what is going on in there.

Cory

 

[tcartwri]

If you exceed the allowable slope angle on the motor, the oil in the crankcase will get into the spinning crank. This will produce a lot of oil vapour which will get sucked into the intake through the diaphram you have pictured. Usually motors designed for extreme side slopes will have an extra deep crankcase, and other mechanical modifications to allow them to work this way. And they are usually marked as such.

 

[clytle374]

Anyone know if such a deep pan is available for Kohler diesels?

 

[clytle374]

Well until I can find ,or make, a cure for the problem...... A 13hp Honda just arrived, wonder if by chance it is the engine Joel pulled of the tractor to start with.

Cory

 

[Transit]

I know that it is not recommended to shift gears on a slope. Can not say that it applies in your case with a runaway engine, but free wheeling on a slope is a big no-no.

 

[oldmech]

Hi! Most engines Gas or diesel cannot run for a long time at more 30 deg.. You can damage your engine Some airplane engines can run all position .They have dry oil pan Oil cannot go in cylinders or pistons. Two cycles engines can run in all position .May be Some old JLO Rotax Yamaha snowmobile engines could be adapted at your Bcs. Be careful! Very steppy hills can be dangerous for you too Good Luck ! Oldmech

 

[clytle374]

I know that it is not recommended to shift gears on a slope. Can not say that it applies in your case with a runaway engine, but free wheeling on a slope is a big no-no.

Have that issue with the bailer. You have to be careful and always set the brake before putting the tractor in neutral. And that's a bad situation because you and the tractor brakes together will NOT stop the bailer.

Cory

 

[domo]

Another way to stop a runaway diesel is to engage the decompression lever ( if it has one ) . Hopefully I will never have to do that on my two-wheeler .

 

[clytle374]

Hi! Most engines Gas or diesel cannot run for a long time at more 30 deg.. You can damage your engine Some airplane engines can run all position .They have dry oil pan Oil cannot go in cylinders or pistons. Two cycles engines can run in all position .May be Some old JLO Rotax Yamaha snowmobile engines could be adapted at your Bcs. Be careful! Very steppy hills can be dangerous for you too Good Luck ! Oldmech

I didn't see your post until now, my previous post was being typed as you posted it. I've seen some 4 strokes burn oil on steep hills, but never seen one damaged as long as it has oil pressure. And I've had the idea of a dry sumped oil system stuck in my head also, too complicated a project as far as I can figure. Plus all the dry sump systems I've seen are very expensive. And I despise 2-stroke engines, I'd buy a 4-stroke chain saw if I could find one. Even my RC airplane is 4-stroke.

I've got the wheels all the way out plus spacers. The machine seems more stable than I had expected.

Another way to stop a runaway diesel is to engage the decompression lever ( if it has one ) . Hopefully I will never have to do that on my two-wheeler .

Yeah, decompression works great to shut down a run away if it's got one. This one doesn't.

 

[JoeL4330]

my recollection is that my old MB 280 diesel had an emergency shutoff that puts a metal plate over the air intake (downstream from the airfilter)...basically a "throttle plate" (even though the engine was FI)

You might be interested in air intake shut off valve by amot control - emergency shut down valve

 

[clytle374]

my recollection is that my old MB 280 diesel had an emergency shutoff that puts a metal plate over the air intake (downstream from the airfilter)...basically a "throttle plate" (even though the engine was FI)

You might be interested in air intake shut off valve by amot control - emergency shut down valve

Something like that is needed, I thought about rigging something up to block the air off. The reason I haven't is the pcv where the oil is introduced is inside the intake runner. I'm afraid if I choke off the air it will just pull in enough oil to hydro lock the motor.

Cory

 

[Egon]

the motor has hydraulic lifters and they should float before the engine blows up. /QUOTE]

Depending on the head configuration those floating valves may get to hit the piston's.

Many engines use an oil spray on the underside of the piston for cooling.

Positive air shut-offs work well.

 

[oldmech]

Hi! I find a special industrial engine ROBIN EH25D . This engine can run 100% duty or continue at incline 45 deg. The best I seen. Gas engine 8 hp Din This engine is on AGRIA two-wheels tractors and others industrial machinery. Good Luck ! Oldmech

 

[clytle374]

Hi! I find a special industrial engine ROBIN EH25D . This engine can run 100% duty or continue at incline 45 deg. The best I seen. Gas engine 8 hp Din This engine is on AGRIA two-wheels tractors and others industrial machinery. Good Luck ! Oldmech

Thanks, I'll start watching around for one. Any idea if mounting will be a bolt up deal, or more complicated?

Cory