Coolant change, what do you use?

[Wacky]

Thinking about changing my coolant before winter this year. What are you guys using? And are you guys flushing w/ a chemical? And last, but not least, do you use distilled water? My city water has a high amount of lime, and some rust in it, so I was going to go with distilled. I think it only holds about 1.5 gallons of coolant anyhow. Just wondering what is out there. And is there any long life alternative so I don't have to do it every year or 2? Thanks in advance for ideas.:thumbsup:

 

[ray66v]

Diesels normally require antifreeze that contains extra additives for diesel engines. According to the book of MF, you can use regular antifreeze in these. However, MF wants you to change the coolant annually, suggesting they have concerns about the antifreeze additives lasting in these engines.

I am using Fleet Charge heavy duty antifreeze.
Fleet Charge Heavy Duty Antifreeze & Coolant, 1 gal. - 8000177 | Tractor Supply Company
It's designed for diesel engines, and contains all the necessary additives. It seems to be the most reasonably priced readily available diesel antifreeze.

I have only changed this antifreeze every other year, it still looks like new, and the system looks clean, when I remove it.

Although it certainly can't hurt, I have never used distilled water. As one example, my Villager has 198,000 miles on it, most of that is with city water in there. My cooling system is fine.

 

[Toyboy]

I don't get it. What is the big difference between coolant circulating in a gas engine and a diesel? It is a closed system and removes heat generated by combustion. The only difference I can see is at what temp it circulates. If the additive package works for 5 years in a car/truck, why won't it do the same in a diesel? Is this one of the "old wives" tales that accompany so many rumors we see on the net?

 

[955Lincoln]

I don't get it. What is the big difference between coolant circulating in a gas engine and a diesel? It is a closed system and removes heat generated by combustion. The only difference I can see is at what temp it circulates. If the additive package works for 5 years in a car/truck, why won't it do the same in a diesel? Is this one of the "old wives" tales that accompany so many rumors we see on the net?

I was thinking old wives tale also until I did some research. I have never owned a diesel before and now I have 3 of them so I thought I had better check. I'm not sure if it is the sleeve design or higher compression of a diesel but the coolant will cavitate (mini explosions) against the cylinder liners. If this goes on long enough it will eat into the combustion chamber. The additives coat the liner and will help with this problem. I have also learned that some diesels don't have this problem and do not require the special additives. Why? I don't know.

I spoke to a retired diesel mechanic not long ago and he has seen deep pits and open holes in liners. He didn't know what caused it but it seems to support the theory.

 

[Wacky]

Diesels normally require antifreeze that contains extra additives for diesel engines. According to the book of MF, you can use regular antifreeze in these. However, MF wants you to change the coolant annually, suggesting they have concerns about the antifreeze additives lasting in these engines.

I am using Fleet Charge heavy duty antifreeze.
Fleet Charge Heavy Duty Antifreeze & Coolant, 1 gal. - 8000177 | Tractor Supply Company
It's designed for diesel engines, and contains all the necessary additives. It seems to be the most reasonably priced readily available diesel antifreeze.

I have only changed this antifreeze every other year, it still looks like new, and the system looks clean, when I remove it.

Although it certainly can't hurt, I have never used distilled water. As one example, my Villager has 198,000 miles on it, most of that is with city water in there. My cooling system is fine.

Thanks ray66, I was thinking there was some additives, but unsure what additives.

I was thinking old wives tale also until I did some research. I have never owned a diesel before and now I have 3 of them so I thought I had better check. I'm not sure if it is the sleeve design or higher compression of a diesel but the coolant will cavitate (mini explosions) against the cylinder liners. If this goes on long enough it will eat into the combustion chamber. The additives coat the liner and will help with this problem. I have also learned that some diesels don't have this problem and do not require the special additives. Why? I don't know.

I spoke to a retired diesel mechanic not long ago and he has seen deep pits and open holes in liners. He didn't know what caused it but it seems to support the theory.

That is something I didn't know. Wonder what actually makes it "cavitate"? Does it get so hot it disintegrates ??

 

[ray66v]

My understanding of this is some engines, (big diesels?) have a propensity to have problems with cavitation by design. And, some of the smaller engines are made in a way that is not an issue.

MF suggests annual changes. We all know antifreeze lasts longer than that. So, we are left to speculate why.

I bought the insurance policy, (the diesel antifreeze), and then I stopped thinking about it. :thumbsup:

 

[ray66v]

I should have added, the additives that protect an engine from cavitation do wear out. Regular testing and replenishment is required to keep the DCA, diesel coolant additives, at the proper level.

Or, the other option is just change the antifreeze. On a semi your talking about a lot of antifreeze, so they add DCA additive to their antifreeze. On a subcompact tractor, you not talking about a lot of antifreeze. So you can just change it. Was this part, or all of the reason MF prescribes annual replacement of the coolant???

They did not say, so we don't know.

 

[955Lincoln]

Thanks ray66, I was thinking there was some additives, but unsure what additives.


That is something I didn't know. Wonder what actually makes it "cavitate"? Does it get so hot it disintegrates ??

Just a guess here but I think it's the combination of higher compression and a slip in cylinder sleeve instead of a solid cast block, ringing, vibration? It's not heat but rather very small air bubbles imploding with a lot of force. You know how some diesels sound like they are ready to blow up with that terrible knocking noise?

The higher grade coolants are basically lifetime, but as ray66v mentioned you need to use test strips and keep the SCA levels up. Most heavy construction equipment have coolant filters and you can buy a filter that contains an SCA charge if the levels are low. My Cat takes over 10 gallons of coolant so I won't be changing it out anytime soon. I will however keep the SCA levels up to par.

 

[TennFire]

I ran into this issue with my Powerstroke. After some research, I decided to use an antifreeze that you get from the International dealer which is specifically spec.'ed by International for its diesels because of this issue. No additional additives required.

 

[Soundguy]

if I can't find a good fleet precharged sca/dca coolant.. I use the green stuff and add the needed sca/dca / cavitation / electrolysis addatives. can be had at napa, CNH or a ford parts counter... and likely plenty of other automotive and tractor dealers counters.

soundguy

 

[Don87]

Thanks ray66, I was thinking there was some additives, but unsure what additives.


That is something I didn't know. Wonder what actually makes it "cavitate"? Does it get so hot it disintegrates ??

A small excerpt I found:

One of the most common and costly results of improper cooling system maintenance is the perforation of wet-sleeve cylinder liners. The perforation is caused by repetitive pitting of the liner resulting from liner vibration. As the fuel inside ignites, the liner vibrates within the block. The outside wall of the liner actually moves away from the coolant causing a near vacuum for an instant. This low-pressure causes the surrounding coolant to boil, forming tiny bubbles. The liner then returns to its position with extremely high velocity, pressing against the bubbles with a violent force. The bubbles implode (collapse) against the liner wall surface at pressures up to 60,000 PSI. The collapse of these bubbles blasts small holes in the steel liner. This pitting process will repeat, digging tiny tunnels through the liner. This will eventually perforate the wall allowing coolant to enter the combustion side of the cylinder

Full article:
Protect Your Engine with the Right Antifreeze

 

[Soundguy]

thus my post about a cavitation and electrolysis addative..

soundguy

 

[Wacky]

Thanks guys.:thumbsup: I was looking though the owners manual and it says just to use ethylene glycol and water, 50/50. Does not mention anything about additives???

 

[ray66v]

Thanks guys.:thumbsup: I was looking though the owners manual and it says just to use ethylene glycol and water, 50/50. Does not mention anything about additives???

Pay attention, I already went over that. :confused3:

Diesels normally require antifreeze that contains extra additives for diesel engines. According to the book of MF, you can use regular antifreeze in these. However, MF wants you to change the coolant annually, suggesting they have concerns about the antifreeze additives lasting in these engines.

 

[Wacky]

Pay attention, I already went over that. :confused3:

I understand that, just curious as too WHY wouldn't they want to put the additive IN to eliminate all questions? Or do they not add it because it corrodes or does not lubricate well? I am totally new to diesel proper maintenance, just want to do everything possible I can to have this thing around for a LOOONG time.:thumbsup:

 

[Farmwithjunk]

As a "decoration"/pen & pencil holder on my desk, I have a cylinder sleeve from a 1979 John Deere 4240. I bought the tractor in 1984, with less than 800 hours on the clock. It had the entire volume of the coolant system in the oil pan when I hauled it home...:O

With under 800 hours use, and NO coolant upkeep in it's 5 years (at that point) the rear-most cylinder liner had 2 holes that looked like someone took a cutting torch and blew very small holes in it, right at the base where it presses into the block. OTHER THAN the coolant being neglected, the tractor was in great condition. Needed a new crankshaft, 2 rods, all bearings, rings, new sleeves, valve train, and oil pump. Cost (at that time) was about $900 under what a new crate engine would have cost.

Check ph level of coolant to get a picture of what condition it's in. Fram makes a diesel coolant system treatment. It comes with litmus test strips and all the info you need to keep your diesel in tip top condition. Deere offered a cooling system upgrade for 400 series 6-cylinders. It is essentially a filtration system. (to remove small rust particles which are part of the problem...) The filters come pre-charged with coolant system treatment. I've since added the filter system to a couple Deere 4-cylinder engines and one 6-banger. (2440, 2640, and 4440)

 

[ray66v]

I understand that, just curious as too WHY wouldn't they want to put the additive IN to eliminate all questions? Or do they not add it because it corrodes or does not lubricate well? I am totally new to diesel proper maintenance, just want to do everything possible I can to have this thing around for a LOOONG time.:thumbsup:

I have been wondering all that since I bought mine in '95. Let me know if you find out.

All we know for sure is: MF says, if you change it annually with regular antifreeze, your going to be fine.

Do that, or roll the dice.

If you really want to cover all the bases, you can always use the heavy duty diesel antifreeze, and change it annually.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. the swizzle sticks and addatives are TOO CHEAP to not use them.

soundguy

 

[buckwheat]

Engine design appears to play a critical role. I have a TDI Jetta Wagon. I have never heard of a cavitation issue on a VW. I also have a 7.3L E350. Those engines, particularly the indirect injection ones, have a significant caivitation issue. I even received a letter from Ford reminding me to ensure adequate supplemental coolant additive on my IDI van. My current direct injection van never warranted a letter from Ford. Nevertheless, I religiously maintain my molybdate and nitrate levels in the coolant of that one, just in case. I always wonder if the lower compression level in the direct injection motors made the problem go away.

I've never really done much on my GC2300 other than periodically change the coolant. Never added an SCA. Compared to over 1,000,000 7.3L engines and likely even more VW TDIs sold, the Iseki does not have a lot a owner experience. Has anyone ever heard of cavitation on a small bore engine? My gut says small engines experience less cylinder wall flex and hence less cavitation.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Engine design appears to play a critical role. I have a TDI Jetta Wagon. I have never heard of a cavitation issue on a VW. I also have a 7.3L E350. Those engines, particularly the indirect injection ones, have a significant caivitation issue. I even received a letter from Ford reminding me to ensure adequate supplemental coolant additive on my IDI van. My current direct injection van never warranted a letter from Ford. Nevertheless, I religiously maintain my molybdate and nitrate levels in the coolant of that one, just in case. I always wonder if the lower compression level in the direct injection motors made the problem go away.

I've never really done much on my GC2300 other than periodically change the coolant. Never added an SCA. Compared to over 1,000,000 7.3L engines and likely even more VW TDIs sold, the Iseki does not have a lot a owner experience. Has anyone ever heard of cavitation on a small bore engine? My gut says small engines experience less cylinder wall flex and hence less cavitation.

By no means do I know everything there is to know on the subject, I do know of a few different engine designs/series/ect from a few different brands that were all proned to cavitation and/or electrolysis (sp??). All those were in-line 4 or 6 cylinder, cast iron block, WET SLEEVE engines. In every instance (with the engines I'm familiar with) they ALSO had a history of "dirty castings" (as far as the water jackets). Rust particles played some role in the erosion of the sleeves. As I said, that's with a hand full of engine types.