Kioti CK27HST vs. LS J2030

[Perplexed]

It's me again I'm still researching CUT's with the primary purpose of finish-mowing 3 acres of mostly flat, open lawn. There will be occasional earth moving and snow removal, so I'd like a little extra "oomph" for those occasions. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it!

I was wondering what you folks thought would be a better choice, the Kioti CK27HST or the LS J2030, also with HST. I test-drove the latter the other day and liked it a lot, but have yet to try the Kioti, as the closest dealer is approximately 45 miles away (the LS dealer being half that distance). On paper, it sounds like the Kioti might be the better bang for the buck, but I almost fell out of my chair when I saw how much it weighs: 3,117 lbs! That's about TWICE as much as the LS2030 weighs...

Now I'm wondering what the deal is there. Is the Kioti really that much beefier than the LS? Will I notice the difference as far as power delivery goes (both having very similar output)? I realize that a heavier tractor is better for earth and snow moving, but wouldn't that be a disadvantage for driving across a turf lawn?

Thoughts and comments appreciated!

 

[Dmace]

The Kioti's are certainly better at earth moving than mowing but if you get the turf tires and drop the loader, it will make a pretty good mower too. With that said, I don't mow with it as it's just an earth mover for me.

I can attest to the weight in the Kioti resulting in brute strength. I have crawled all over my CK20HST and it is very well made with some thick steel exactly where you want it. I read on these forums very often about these other tractors cracking frames, snapping axles, and bending tie rods and I'm glad I got a hefty little tractor. Personally, I would rather have a solid well made tractor that's a little heavy on the turf vs a light tractor that will mow good but be useless when it comes to moving dirt.

If your looking for a primary mower then you might be better off with a feather-weight like the LS or a Kubota.

 

[Gittyup]

Don't know anything about the LS. But compared to JD, Kubota, NH, and just about everything else the Kioti/BC's are obviously heavier built, especially in the transaxles. I've been very happy with mine as a digging/hauling machine. Outstanding stability and really puts the power to the ground. However, due to that weight, if you have a lot of PTO under motion chores, and you are going HST, go for the CK30 or CK35 for the extra HP. If mowing is a primary chore, a lighter machine would be a better choice.

 

[charleyfarmall]

I have a Kioti ck27HST and use it for all kinds of chores including mowing. I left it with the industrial tires and as long as it didn't just rain i have no problem mowing the yard and along the driveway. I bought it over overs specifically because it does weigh more and i can use it to get firewood out of the woods. It is a very well built tractor and i highly recommend it. The weight is important if you are going to use it for loader work too. It's built like a small ag tractor and not a big lawn mower.

 

[Gary Fowler]

First off, if you are going to compare tractors, compare apples to apples. The LS model you are looking at is an SCUT which is a more of a glorified lawn mower. If you want to compare an LS model to a CK27 look at the I 3030 HST model. It more closely represents a model comparison with 2780 lb weight. If you are looking for an SCUT, you are going to be surprised at the size of the Kioti and likely the price will be quiet a bit more also. I know that when you compare the correct model for model you will be impressed with the LS models and when you hear the price you will be sold. Also look at the difference in standard equipment on the LS compared to all the others.
Check out the LS forum way down at the bottom of the main index and you can get some insight to what other buyers are finding with these tractors.

 

[Perplexed]

First off, if you are going to compare tractors, compare apples to apples. The LS model you are looking at is an SCUT which is a more of a glorified lawn mower. If you want to compare an LS model to a CK27 look at the I 3030 HST model. It more closely represents a model comparison with 2780 lb weight. If you are looking for an SCUT, you are going to be surprised at the size of the Kioti and likely the price will be quiet a bit more also. I know that when you compare the correct model for model you will be impressed with the LS models and when you hear the price you will be sold. Also look at the difference in standard equipment on the LS compared to all the others.
Check out the LS forum way down at the bottom of the main index and you can get some insight to what other buyers are finding with these tractors.

Gary, thanks for the information. I'm beginning to get a sense of the general SCUT profile as opposed to a CUT. The more I look into these new tractors, the more I think about a used CUT - something around 2000-2200 lbs with no attachments, Hydrastat, 22-25 hp at the PTO, and a price tag that won't induce sticker shock

 

[DAY]

the primary purpose of finish-mowing 3 acres of mostly flat, open lawn.

In my opinion- worth little, since my mowing-by-tractor experience is limited to a 6' Bush Hog on a 50HP Case- is that mowing is best accomplished with a machine designed for the purpose. That is a ZTR, the ONLY machine used by the mow-for-money folks.

Mowing 3 acres every week or two needs to be done fast and done well. A CUT will not measure up to the job like a ZTR.

Your budget may not support two machines, but your satisfaction of the jobs accomplished will. Browse the used machinery.

 

[Perplexed]

In my opinion- worth little, since my mowing-by-tractor experience is limited to a 6' Bush Hog on a 50HP Case- is that mowing is best accomplished with a machine designed for the purpose. That is a ZTR, the ONLY machine used by the mow-for-money folks.

Mowing 3 acres every week or two needs to be done fast and done well. A CUT will not measure up to the job like a ZTR.

Your budget may not support two machines, but your satisfaction of the jobs accomplished will. Browse the used machinery.

Day,

I already have a 22-hp 52" ZTR. While it does the job of mowing, it's not easy to get the ZTR to mow the long, straight lines of my front lawn, and it bogs down in the spots with thicker grass. I end up having to mow with 1/3 of the deck at a crawl. Plus, I want to do some earth moving, and I want to be able to clear snow off the 150-yard-long driveway. Not things you'd do with a ZTR I'd keep the ZTR for mowing the tight, wooded spots in the back, though.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[DAY]

Wow; my bad! I would think 22HP cutting 52" would handle anything that could be called a 'lawn'. Others on this site say 5HP per foot are required for a bush hog, so your 22 horses are right there. Maybe some ZTR pros can chime in on this. I'll sit down, and shut up!:confused2:

 

[richamor]

Sounds like there may be a problem with the ZTR. I've cut thick damp lawn (that NEEDED cutting) with mine at only slightly reduced speeds. I've only got 21HP with a 54" deck and running mulching blades. And if it wouldn't cut full width I'd be PO'ed. Ask my dealer:laughing: As for straight lines, it sounds like some adjusting may be required. I have to do that once in a while on mine. But I can hold mine full forward and run a straight line for the length of the front yard, about 1000ft .

The Kioti is a nice tractor. I looked at a CK 27S before I bought the Kubota. The CK was about 2500 dollars more without the HST. But I gotta admit, it felt nice and I was sorely tempted. It is bigger and it drove well. The controls seemed to be well placed and easy to use. Although my dealer didn't have one with a bh and fel, which I was looking for. And for me, it's size and weight would have put it at a dis-advantage.

We have a new LS dealer in town. I looked, but passed since I don't know where they'll be next year.

 

[Perplexed]

Hmm, wonder if my ZTR does have an issue. It runs just fine over most grass, but the heavy stuff (and thick layers of leaves) does leave it gasping for breath. I'll have to look it over when I get a chance.

The problem with steering my ZTR in a straight line crops up when I'm on a slight side slope, going flat out. I have to use a very light touch to allow for the slope; just a tad too much, and the mower veers off the path. Then I have to stop, back up, and mow the strip that I missed. On a level surface, it's not too bad. I just prefer a steering wheel.

Plus, I don't care for the grass and dust storm that billows up around the mower during the dry spells. It leaves me rubbing my eyes, spitting dirt, and blowing dust out of my nose. Then when I'm done, I have to strip down and leave my dusty clothes outside. I'd rather it all happened behind me

 

[Gary Fowler]

Not too many years ago, Kioti was a new kid on the block and had some good features that other brands didnt offer in the CUT and were much cheaper. They have now gotten a little to big for their pants in my opinion with their prices zooming and hassling their dealers which I have heard from several who recently decided to quit selling Kioti because of the distributor heavy handed tactics.
At this moment, LS tractors are entering the market under their own brand name and have some of the best deals around on their tractors. They are here to stay as a brand and have committed to being in the top 3 brands in sales in USA in the next 5 years. I think they have the most bang for the buck and better quality than any other tractor marketed including JD, MF, NH, Kioti, Mahindra and especially Kubota. I looked at all the above prior to buying my LS (LS was actually the last one I looked at) and I think the LS is the better tractor. I am not saying that the other brands are worthless and POS. They are all good tractors although a few of them think their paint is underlayered with 24K gold by their price. Check out used prices and then check out the deals you can get on new and you may decide that it is cheaper to buy new and get a 5 year LS warranty to boot. Good luck with whatever you choose to buy, I am sure if after careful consideration you will get the tractor that fits your rear end and budget.

 

[Gary Fowler]

As for your ZTR mowing straight, someone told me that the secret to mowing straight was to look far ahead rather than try to look at the wheels. You will shortly see the variance in angle and can correct it before you get to far off. Kind of like riding a motorcycle, if you want to miss hitting a pot hole dont look at it, pick a spot ahead in a line that misses the hole and you will not hit it. Look at the hole and you will almost always hit it dead on.
If you have ever tried to lay out straight rows with a tractor, you have to do the same thing, Look off to the other end of your field or in this case lawn and line up on an object and kept your direction on that object and you will do much better. I did the same thing you are doing on my first time with the ZTR and finally figured out the way to keep it on tract. Try it and see.

 

[IslandTractor]

Kioti vs LS is a little like asking about Kubota vs Kioti six or seven years ago. One is clearly more established but the upstart comes along with a quality product at less money (and less security regarding the brand longevity and dealer network). I haven't seen the new LS tractors but they come from a respected manufacturer so I'm sure they are good machines.

We always talk about how important dealers are here on TBN but with these relatively less established lines even a good dealer has little control over their fate. Rick Wallace was a superb Kioti dealer but essentially got bounced due to Kioti policies on keeping large numbers of tractors on the lot. He now sells Bobcat (same tractor different color). If a dealer carries other lines besides LS I would feel more comfortable buying LS from him. LS may go away but he will have experienced mechanics and presumably will support his customers. Parts may be a little more of a problem but LS is a big company and their tractor models are sold under a number of other colors and names so parts should still be available.

In comparing the specs, I note that the LS has only a two speed HST compared to the Kioti's 3 speed. That is a pretty big feature to consider. That middle range is really the mowing range on slopes and is important for loader work too. The Kioti also is heavier I believe though they have similar features otherwise based on the brochure.

The real issue then comes down to whether the extra savings is worth the extra risk. Back in the day, I chose Kioti over Kubota and have never regretted the decision even though two dealers I used no longer carry the line.

 

[art]

Having just been to the New York state farm show and comparing the Kioti and the LS tractors I'd go Kioti. The fit and finish is far better on the Kioti then on the LS tractors displayed at the show. The housings on the LS looked like they were crude as far as the amount of slag hanging off the LS chassis. The hoods and dash, while they didn't fit right either! To have a machine that is new and to have that bad of fit external, while what do you think it might be like on the inside? There are some quality control issues that they should deal with as they were not a pretty sight to me.

Just my observations

 

[DAY]

Having just been to the New York state farm show

If I were taking my product to a farm show, I'd make sure it was prepped as well as a 1932 Rolls Royce at the Pebble Beach Concourse de Elegance!

 

[art]

Some of it was just clean-up. Some of it was factory. Panel fit was bad and miss colored on the plastic. The castings were extremely crude and I feel that the poor quality of the forgings left a lot to be desired. The metal fit was also lacking.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Some of it was just clean-up. Some of it was factory. Panel fit was bad and miss colored on the plastic. The castings were extremely crude and I feel that the poor quality of the forgings left a lot to be desired. The metal fit was also lacking.

The LS tractors that I looked at at the Tulare World AG Expo back in February were all very nice. No, I didn't get under them and check out the undercarriages to see how the castings were, but fit and finish were good at a glance. As far as I know, they had every model that they offer there. What this tells me is that they have a quality control problem or one of us is being overly critical. :confused3: Don't know, don't really care.

 

[Perplexed]

Some of it was just clean-up. Some of it was factory. Panel fit was bad and miss colored on the plastic. The castings were extremely crude and I feel that the poor quality of the forgings left a lot to be desired. The metal fit was also lacking.

Interesting. I thought the LS's I checked out looked good, but I don't have much to compare them to. I did notice, however, that the dealer had trouble locking down the hood after he shut it...

 

[rocknrod]

You know after looking for six months far and wide in Texas (where I live) at just about every tractor, even a vietnamese place up here - I found it to be just the opposite.
But then again - I didnt look at them with bias.
That is to say I didnt already own a tractor and look at LS with bias.
I have had many locals look and drive mine (who have allot more experience than I) and come away with nothing but positive praises.