Towing up hills

[Davidsan]

Hello,
Saturday I loaded up my Kubota M8540 w/FEL and box blade onto my 22k gooseneck trailer that weighs (7300lb). Hooked to my old 89 Ford F350 that has a 7.3L IDI with aftermarket Banks turbo. Truck is in great shape wiht 99,000 miles on it. On flat rolling, the truck does ok. I can make about 45 mph in 4th gear comfortably. I started up a hill in 2nd gear and nearly didn't make it to the top. It dropped down to about 800 rpm and 10 mph at the top. She was lugging with all it had. This is not the first time I've noticed it just doesn't pull real well. I'm wondering if newer diesels would perform better.

I don't see any smoke and am wondering if I turned up the pump just a hair if it would gain a little horsepower that she definitely needs! Or if it would make that much difference?

Guess I'm a little disappointed with my truck and may have it overloaded for it's age???? Should I start shopping for a newer truck?

 

[WM75Guy]

I took my 8N to the shop to get weights and a worklight added last week. Got it back yesterday. My 03 GMC pulls my trailer and tractor at 65 mph on cruise, may slow down to 60 on a hill and gets 15 mpg towing. Highway mileage without a load is 20-22 mpg. My 08 does not get as good on the highway, 16-18 mpg, but about the same towing. Towing it doesn't hardly slow down on a hill. Both are Duramax, the 03 has the 5 speed Allison and the 08 has the 6 speed Allison.

 

[JB4310]

Hello,
Saturday I loaded up my Kubota M8540 w/FEL and box blade onto my 22k gooseneck trailer that weighs (7300lb). Hooked to my old 89 Ford F350 that has a 7.3L IDI with aftermarket Banks turbo. Truck is in great shape wiht 99,000 miles on it. On flat rolling, the truck does ok. I can make about 45 mph in 4th gear comfortably. I started up a hill in 2nd gear and nearly didn't make it to the top. It dropped down to about 800 rpm and 10 mph at the top. She was lugging with all it had. This is not the first time I've noticed it just doesn't pull real well. I'm wondering if newer diesels would perform better.

I don't see any smoke and am wondering if I turned up the pump just a hair if it would gain a little horsepower that she definitely needs! Or if it would make that much difference?

Guess I'm a little disappointed with my truck and may have it overloaded for it's age???? Should I start shopping for a newer truck?

I'm not sure what your problem is but, something is wrong. couldn't get over a hill at more than 10 mph is a hazard not an inconvienance. Engine needs to be analyzed.

Could make some wise crack about it being a FORD but I don't think it's that easy.

JB.

 

[timswi]

I'm not sure what your problem is but, something is wrong. couldn't get over a hill at more than 10 mph is a hazard not an inconvienance. Engine needs to be analyzed.

Could make some wise crack about it being a FORD but I don't think it's that easy.

JB.

Why not?...DP would take that ball and run with it if the issue was with a DMAX.

 

[JB4310]

Why not?...DP would take that ball and run with it if the issue was with a DMAX.

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

JB.

 

[Dmace]

Why not?...DP would take that ball and run with it if the issue was with a DMAX.

:laughing: Yup, then throw in a random rant about a Dodge rusting even though no one mentioned a Dodge truck.

On topic, are you sure the transmission was dropping down to 2nd gear? My old 94 F-350 diesel had that horrible E4OD 4 speed auto transmission and a couple of times it would get "hung up" in a high gear 3rd or 4th and not downshift when I needed it to. Sometimes I even noticed that it was starting off from a stop in 2nd gear and not downshifting to 1st. This transmission was the first electronically controlled automatic made by Ford and they were known for shifting problems.

If that's not the problem, then I would look to the turbo to make sure it's still in good shape (i.e. no shaft play or oil leak) and make sure it's building boost. If so then next is the fuel system and make sure you have a clean filter and good fuel pressure at the injectors.

Guess I'm a little disappointed with my truck and may have it overloaded for it's age???? Should I start shopping for a newer truck?

If you plan on towing more than a couple of times a year than I would. Even a newer half-ton truck will be light years better at towing that load than that old 1-ton. I towed my tractor/trailer (7500lbs +/-) with my F-350 non-turbo diesel dump truck and it was tough but no major problems. Once the transmission started acting up I figured I would try and tow it with my 03 RAM 1500 HEMI since it was within the manufacturers 8550lb tow limit. What a difference! I could actually hold 55-60 up these steep New England hills, braking was better (surge brakes on the trailer), the overall control was better and steering was lighter. I never again used the dump truck for towing and went straight for the RAM.
So I would certainly look for a newer truck and don't think you need a 1-ton dually to tow 7300lbs, I would feel safe with up to 10k behind a newer half ton as long as it's setup right.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Keep in mind an M8540 (ROPS) with FEL and bucket weights about 7,800 lbs. I am guessing the box blade weighs close to 1,000 lbs? (Don't know what size it is.) If the trailer really is 7,300 lbs empty, you are towing approximately 16,000 lbs. For a new F-350 this would not be a "big" problem, but you certainly would know it is back there. For an older truck, this could be a struggle.

Combination of factors: older truck, older truck possible not in best running condition, a lot of weight.

 

[slowzuki]

The old IDI's didn't make a lot of power, the neighbours had a 6.9 and 7.3 both non-turbo. I can tell you on a hill with a 10,000 lb wagon behind, they didn't get out of 2nd gear much.

The turbo's helped them keep from smoking and added a bit of power but didn't transform them into a Powerstoke.

 

[dodge man]

I agree, you are towing at least 15,000 lbs, which may be to much for your older Ford on hills. What is it rated to tow?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Hello,
Saturday I loaded up my Kubota M8540 w/FEL and box blade onto my 22k gooseneck trailer that weighs (7300lb). Hooked to my old 89 Ford F350 that has a 7.3L IDI with aftermarket Banks turbo. Truck is in great shape wiht 99,000 miles on it. On flat rolling, the truck does ok. I can make about 45 mph in 4th gear comfortably. I started up a hill in 2nd gear and nearly didn't make it to the top. It dropped down to about 800 rpm and 10 mph at the top. She was lugging with all it had. This is not the first time I've noticed it just doesn't pull real well. I'm wondering if newer diesels would perform better.

I don't see any smoke and am wondering if I turned up the pump just a hair if it would gain a little horsepower that she definitely needs! Or if it would make that much difference?

Guess I'm a little disappointed with my truck and may have it overloaded for it's age???? Should I start shopping for a newer truck?

Something else must be going on here. I never had a IDI 7.3 but did have a 99 7.3 and 3 other diesel trucks and could pull 15,000# up about any hill at 55 mph. My 06 F-350 routinely pulls my 15,600# boat though the smokies and I never drop below 65mph and could easily do more if I wanted to really work it.

Yes, the new ones pull much much better. You are talking 3 times the power.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Why not?...DP would take that ball and run with it if the issue was with a DMAX.

I would not either. I had a 05 Dmax and when it was not in the shop it pulled really well. Nice engine, you never hear me bad mouth the motor, only talk about the issues I had. Now I am not a fan of the chassis, body, or interior but the running gear is good stuff.

Lets be honest here. He has a bigger issue. Heck a 351 in that same truck would do better.

Chris

 

[timswi]

I would not either. I had a 05 Dmax and when it was not in the shop it pulled really well. Nice engine, you never hear me bad mouth the motor, only talk about the issues I had. Now I am not a fan of the chassis, body, or interior but the running gear is good stuff.

Lets be honest here. He has a bigger issue. Heck a 351 in that same truck would do better.

Chris

Sorry...That was a hanging curve ball that I couldn't resist.

Anyway, you're probably right. Although, my 89 6.2 Non turbo GM diesel (Detroit, not Olds) would wind up pretty good while downshifting, even though it had a ton of torque but no real horsepower. I just wonder if the OP's tranny is working correctly. I can see screaming to the top of the hill in 1st gear, but not bogging down. That's what mine did when I overloaded it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Sorry...That was a hanging curve ball that I couldn't resist.

Anyway, you're probably right. Although, my 89 6.2 Non turbo GM diesel (Detroit, not Olds) would wind up pretty good while downshifting, even though it had a ton of torque but no real horsepower. I just wonder if the OP's tranny is working correctly. I can see screaming to the top of the hill in 1st gear, but not bogging down. That's what mine did when I overloaded it.

Hey, its all in good fun. I would have taken that shot also. :thumbsup: In all seriousness, the issues I had with my Dmax were not engine related other than the glow plugs and some injector issues. The tranny and engine combo along with the rear end is a good combo. It was just a combo of all the little problems I had that made me run.

My uncle has a early 90's 3/4 ton Suburban with the 6.5 and it has no problems pulling 10,000# and occasionally 12,000# all over the place in the dead of summer. It may slow to 55 and to be honest a modern gasser would eat its lunch, but it been a relative trouble free truck. Just 2 injector pumps since new other than normal maintenance items.

The OP's truck either has a very poorly geared rear end or a tranny issue.


Chris

 

[timswi]

He, its all in good fun. I would have taken that shot also. :thumbsup: In all seriousness, the issues I had with my Dmax were not engine related other than the glow plugs and some injector issues. The tranny and engine combo along with the rear end is a good combo. It was just a combo of all the little problems I had that made me run.

My uncle has a early 90's 3/4 ton Suburban with the 6.5 and it has no problems pulling 10,000# and occasionally 12,000# all over the place int the dead of summer. It may slow to 55 and to be honest a modern gasser would eat its lunch, but it been a relative trouble free truck. Just 2 injector pumps since new other than normal maintenance items.

The OP's truck either has a very poorly geared rear end or a tranny issue.


Chris

Mybe my 89 was a 6.5..Don't remember...Only problem I ever had was a couple of glow plugs and a battery cable. Someone harped on me to sell it to him or I'd still have it...3/4 ton GMC suburban 4X4 loaded. Bought it from my mom's boss who buys top of the line everything and abuses them accordingly.

 

[tractorsanmore]

I have a 89 f250 4x4 with the 7.3 diesel and 4:10 gears , 185 hp ( all stock ) 93,000 miles .
Tow rating is 9000 lbs I believe . As long as I keep the load under that amount it does ok , although it slows on hills , pretty much comparable to a 460 gas engine but with around 6 more mpg highway ( empty ) . The op needs more truck just as he figures .

 

[Davidsan]

Ok, probably should have mentioned it is a manual transmission. I made a turn onto this road and never shifted out of 2nd all the way up the hill. Just before the crest was a pretty steep climb and it just almost didn't make it.

As others mentioned, the trailer empty is 7300 lb. The tractor is probably 8/9000 lbs (w/FEL and loaded rears) and box blade easy. so 16000 is a fair assessment.

Fortunately, this was all on a country road and no one was behind me.

The truck is in good running shape. I have no concerns with it's performance. Filters (Fuel and air) are clean and changed regularly. The one thing I have not done is adjusted the fuel to the turbo. The previous owner installed the turbo and turned up the fuel to match but it smoked and didn't crank real well, so he dialed it back. Any tips?

 

[Dmace]

As others mentioned, the trailer empty is 7300 lb. The tractor is probably 8/9000 lbs (w/FEL and loaded rears) and box blade easy. so 16000 is a fair assessment.

I thought you meant 7,300lbs total! There probably isn't anything wrong with the truck, pulling that much weight up a hill takes a lot more HP than that diesel is gonna make. Those weren't exactly strong building motors like the Cummins and even turbocharged you will be lucky to get 300hp before sending a piston through the wall.

The one thing I have not done is adjusted the fuel to the turbo. The previous owner installed the turbo and turned up the fuel to match but it smoked and didn't crank real well, so he dialed it back. Any tips?

The ONLY way you should properly tune this truck is to get an EGT gauge and a wideband Air/Fuel ratio gauge then make small adjustments making sure not to run too lean or rich and not to run too hot as well.

 

[arsenix2001]

Ive been with ford for 16 years one way or another. That motor is weak to say the least. And the 15-16k your pulling well exceeds what the truck is rated for. You could have your truck dyno tuned to see if your not getting enough advance on the injector pump.
Your motor if a 7.3 idi was rated at 185hp and 338lb tq. Dealer installed turbos raised this to 190/390. Just for comparison, late model 7.3's came from the factory at 275hp/575 tq. The 2003-2006 6.0 were 325/570 (not even rated to tow what your pulling gvcw) and the 2007(late model)-2010 6.4 put out up to 350hp/650tq and as far as i know the new ford built 6.7 scorpion puts out more. Ive owned a 2002 7.3, a 2004 6.0 and a chipped 2008 6.4. Each was a huge increase in seat of the pants power. My 08 pulls 14k like its not even there. I think you are just asking waaaaay to much of your truck.

 

[scoutcub]

Guess I'm a little disappointed with my truck and may have it overloaded for it's age???? Should I start shopping for a newer truck?

Seems like you and others are right, for that motor/year it's overloaded. You never did say what the axle ratio is?
And, will you be doing this type of towing regularly? Biggest factor in new purchasing decision, in my mind. Continued towing with that combo could invite $$$ problems.
Seems like if the previous owner "dialed back" on the turbo, it may not even be assisting?
Comparatively, I have the same type trailer (7,000 lb 25K gooseneck) and have pulled a 18000lb load (total 25K) up "hills" in Ohio.....certainly not mountains but some fairly long inclines that got me down to 45MPH. Truck is an 06 1 ton dually Powerstroke with platinum edge chip.
Good luck!

 

[QRTRHRS]

I sold a 14k rated gooseneck that weighed around 4500 lb to a man with an similar Ford truck, don't recall what year his truck was. He wanted to pull the trailer so we hooked it up and off we went.

I noticed right away that the truck was pretty anemic as did he. I don't think he had done much with the truck up to that point but he went ahead and bought the trailer from me anyway. I had my 97' Dodge at the time which was mildly juiced up so I had no issue pulling the trailer but you knew it was there.

One aspect about trailers not mentioned in this thread or even in the many others I have read is that some trailers regardless of weight will pull easier than others. Having pulled flats, stretch flats, dumps, tanks, vans, doubles, etc., I have noticed this phenomanon but never really heard any reason for it.

During the time period I owned that deckover gooseneck I also had a BP two horse trailer weighing around 3600 (forget exactly). A little bit of weight difference but that little BP pulled like it was not even back there.