Deep cycle battery for an 8Klb winch

[flusher]

I'm adding a Warn M8000 electric winch to my Isuzu NPR stakebed (my tractor hauler)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/190454-got-tractor-hauler-finally.html

I've been looking at gel cell 12V 100AH batteries like this one from Ritar

RA12-100G - 12volt 100a/h - Sealed lead acid battery for UPS and Telecom, RITAR RA12-100G RA12100G - xpressBatteries.com

Anyone have experience with Ritar batteries? Comment?
Suggested alternatives (I've looked at Optima batteries-pricy but a possible candidate if nothing else shows up)?

Thanks in advance

 

[RobertN]

All my Jeep buddies use Optima's.

My BIL had the power cable to his winch rub thru; he had a grommet where it passed thru the grill. He did not notice it wore thru the cable shield and grommet.

He was on Rubicon when sparks and smoke came from the front of the Jeep. Major discharge before they could get the batteries disconnected. Deader than a door nail. Charged it when he got back home, and got four more years out of it(including use with the winch).

 

[2458n]

The 100aH does not seem like enough to run the winch. I would call Warn and inquire. How are you recharging. Currently using a 10,000 Warn on trailer and without being recharged maybe 2 good pulls. Maybe I am wrong comparing but the battery I am using is rated at 1000 cca,s.

 

[flusher]

The 100aH does not seem like enough to run the winch. I would call Warn and inquire. How are you recharging. Currently using a 10,000 Warn on trailer and without being recharged maybe 2 good pulls. Maybe I am wrong comparing but the battery I am using is rated at 1000 cca,s.

I going by Warn's current draw spec (435 amps at 8000 lb pull). A 100 AH deep cycle battery should give something like 10-12 minutes pull at this draw. I plan to use this winch to pull my 2000-4000 lb parade tractors onto my Isuzu stakebed truck when the tractor engine craps out (which happens occasionally with 50-60 year old equipment).

Warn also recommends a 665 CCA battery (minimum) for this winch. But if I understand this spec correctly, it refers to the situation where the winch operates off the vehicle's start battery--the battery I'm looking for will be dedicated to the winch-- I won't be operating that Warn winch off the Isuzu's battery. Start batteries typically are sized by CCA; deep cycle batteries are sized by amp-hours.

 

[BruceWard]

The UPS battery would not last long at all.

 

[David Devuono]

One thing to take into consideration is that you are only going to have maybe the first layer of cable off, when using on a 16 ft trailer. That makes the 8k winch more like a 4 K winch. I use a 4.5 K winch and snatch block. My winch only has 50 ft cable so I am down closer to the drum where he winch is more efficient. If you are going to use the 8K winch, loose 1/2 the cable and use a snatch block. This will also half the speed and give you more control. (Then you can make up an extension cable with the piece you cut from the winch for longer pulls)

 

[flusher]

The UPS battery would not last long at all.

You're probably right.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have a 3,500# winch on my 18' car hauler trailer. I used to run it off a Group 24 Marine battery but now just use my little Yellow Jump Pack. Works fine. I have pulled tons of cars and trucks as big as a 1/2 ton GM and a Suburban on it using this setup. I think its 400 amp jump pack and my guess is I could get 5 pulls if needed but have never used it more than once. Reason I go this way is my winch may only get used 2 times a year.

If it were me I would just put a Deep Cycle Marine Battery then have jumper cables on hand to run to the trucks battery for extra pulling power if needed. Just make sure the truck is running. I think on your NPR the battery is mounted close to the bed so no big deal.

The real issue is going to be the angle of the ramp. My 18' car hauler is a low boy with 14" deck to ground height and 5' ramps so my pull angle is very low. Yours will be extreme compared to mine. You will also need to have a roller incorporated to the bed to prevent cable fray like many GN deck over trailers have.

Chris

 

[flusher]

I have a 3,500# winch on my 18' car hauler trailer. I used to run it off a Group 24 Marine battery but now just use my little Yellow Jump Pack. Works fine. I have pulled tons of cars and trucks as big as a 1/2 ton GM and a Suburban on it using this setup. I think its 400 amp jump pack and my guess is I could get 5 pulls if needed but have never used it more than once. Reason I go this way is my winch may only get used 2 times a year.

If it were me I would just put a Deep Cycle Marine Battery then have jumper cables on hand to run to the trucks battery for extra pulling power if needed. Just make sure the truck is running. I think on your NPR the battery is mounted close to the bed so no big deal.

The real issue is going to be the angle of the ramp. My 18' car hauler is a low boy with 14" deck to ground height and 5' ramps so my pull angle is very low. Yours will be extreme compared to mine. You will also need to have a roller incorporated to the bed to prevent cable fray like many GN deck over trailers have.

Chris

Thanks for the info. You're right about the ramp. I'm fabricating a roller now that slips into two of the adjacent stake pockets at the rear of the stakebed.

My preference is two use two deep cycle batteries in parallel to run the winch and not bother hooking up to the truck battery (although as you say, it's no big deal to do that since the truck battery is only about 5-ft away from the winch box).

 

[Diamondpilot]

Thanks for the info. You're right about the ramp. I'm fabricating a roller now that slips into two of the adjacent stake pockets at the rear of the stakebed.

My preference is two use two deep cycle batteries in parallel to run the winch and not bother hooking up to the truck battery (although as you say, it's no big deal to do that since the truck battery is only about 5-ft away from the winch box).

You can do it both ways but remember, 2 batteries equals twice the problems. A $10 set of jumper cables you already probably own is very simple for a limited use winch like you are planning. It can also be uses to start a dead tractor or the truck itself off the winches battery if needed. How will you keep the winch battery charged so they are ready when you need it?

They make battery isolators.

East Penn 2-battery System Battery Isolators - JCWhitney

Northern Industrial Battery Isolator — 120 Amp, Model# B-120A1B2E | Energy Storage Batteries | Northern Tool + Equipment

It will allow it to charge off the trucks electrical system when running but not back feed to the motor for starting. I think they are about $45. Much like charging the battery on a trailer for the electric brakes. Just make sure its relay controlled and only powered when the truck is running or it may drain the trucks starting battery and leave you stranded.

Chris

 

[sjb]

I'm no battery expert, but it is my understanding that deep cycle batteries are designed to deliver moderate current draws for an extended period of time. They do not hold up well to high discharge rates. For your winch you might be better off with a normal automotive battery. They are designed to deliver high current to a starter motor.

In general it is not a good idea to connect 2 batteries in parallel. They will never be at exactly the same voltage, and you will get current flow from one battery in to the other.

Stan

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'm no battery expert, but it is my understanding that deep cycle batteries are designed to deliver moderate current draws for an extended period of time. They do not hold up well to high discharge rates. For your winch you might be better off with a normal automotive battery. They are designed to deliver high current to a starter motor.



Stan

You are probably right Stan. I run a marine business and all we use anymore are Dual Purpose Batteries. My brand of choice is Exide but that really does not matter. I get the best deal on them. I like group 27's but use a lot of group 24's also. Being a Dual Purpose battery its kind of a trade off but gives you a lot of the best features of both a starting and deep cycle battery.

Its what I have in both my boats, customers boats, customers campers, and trailers for winches in the past.

http://www.exide.com/portal/server....orth_america/images/ex10_022_marinefamily.pdf

Chris

 

[Harold_J]

I'm no battery expert, but it is my understanding that deep cycle batteries are designed to deliver moderate current draws for an extended period of time. They do not hold up well to high discharge rates. For your winch you might be better off with a normal automotive battery. They are designed to deliver high current to a starter motor.

In general it is not a good idea to connect 2 batteries in parallel. They will never be at exactly the same voltage, and you will get current flow from one battery in to the other.

Stan

I agree with not permanently connecting batteries in parallel. If one battery goes dead or weak, internal short, etc, it will take the other one with it. When you jump a vehicle to start it you of course have a parallel connection, but only for a brief period of time. If you want to go the two battery route for more capacity it would be better to connect two large 6 volt batteries in series as was done on some farm tractors.

I believe you are also correct about not using a deep cycle for heavy loads. It's all a trade-off. A true deep cycle can better tolerate being fully discharged and still come back to life but doesn't like a heavy draw. Some marine batteries are advertisd as being a combo starting/deep cycle type but probably still a compromise.

 

[RobertN]

Every diesel pickup out there has two batteries in parallel...

In general it is not a good idea to connect 2 batteries in parallel. They will never be at exactly the same voltage, and you will get current flow from one battery in to the other.

Stan

 

[flusher]

You are probably right Stan. I run a marine business and all we use anymore are Dual Purpose Batteries. My brand of choice is Exide but that really does not matter. I get the best deal on them. I like group 27's but use a lot of group 24's also. Being a Dual Purpose battery its kind of a trade off but gives you a lot of the best features of both a starting and deep cycle battery.

Its what I have in both my boats, customers boats, customers campers, and trailers for winches in the past.

http://www.exide.com/portal/server....orth_america/images/ex10_022_marinefamily.pdf

Chris

Interesting.

I notice the battery box on my Isuzu NPR is large enough to handle two 12V batteries. I only need one because the engine is the 6.0L GMC gasser. The NPR diesel probably uses (or can use) two batteries in parallel.

So maybe I should be looking at one of those dual use batteries (high CCA and deep cycle combo).

 

[ultrarunner]

You can do it both ways but remember, 2 batteries equals twice the problems. A $10 set of jumper cables you already probably own is very simple for a limited use winch like you are planning. It can also be uses to start a dead tractor or the truck itself off the winches battery if needed. How will you keep the winch battery charged so they are ready when you need it?

They make battery isolators.

East Penn 2-battery System Battery Isolators - JCWhitney

Northern Industrial Battery Isolator 120 Amp, Model# B-120A1B2E | Energy Storage Batteries | Northern Tool + Equipment

It will allow it to charge off the trucks electrical system when running but not back feed to the motor for starting. I think they are about $45. Much like charging the battery on a trailer for the electric brakes. Just make sure its relay controlled and only powered when the truck is running or it may drain the trucks starting battery and leave you stranded.

Chris

I have this set-up in my 1985 Service Van... seems about every 10 years the isolator craps out...

Any idea on how long they can last or the best brand to get?

I also have a continuous duty solenoid so I can combine both batteries for heavy usage... truck is equipped with a heavy duty inverter for power tools... cost a lot back in 1985.

My neighbor does a lot of winch work... he uses welding cable sockets to power his trailer winches... the kind that you will find on the front of many old style arc welders... only runs the positive side to the rear of the vehicle... picks up the negative through the frame. Been doing so since the 1950's.

I modified a heavy duty plug-in jumper cable for my trailer...

Having lots of vehicles... I have too many batteries that just get old.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think you isolator caps are going out after time from just vibration. I have seen them on boats last for many many years and others fail every season. Not enough to worry about only costing $40 or so. If anything, just keep a spare.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Interesting.

I notice the battery box on my Isuzu NPR is large enough to handle two 12V batteries. I only need one because the engine is the 6.0L GMC gasser. The NPR diesel probably uses (or can use) two batteries in parallel.

So maybe I should be looking at one of those dual use batteries (high CCA and deep cycle combo).

Thats what I would do Robert and just put in the box that is there out of the way. Wire it up properly with a isolator and you will be set.

Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

I think you isolator caps are going out after time from just vibration. I have seen them on boats last for many many years and others fail every season. Not enough to worry about only costing $40 or so. If anything, just keep a spare.

Chris

I took the second battery out of the circuit and the main starting battery holds a charge...

Before, the main battery, a 6 month old Interstate Premium would last max 5 days if the vehicle was not driven.

 

[B7510HSD]

I work with electric forklifts and I can tell you deep cycle batteries want to be drained before you recharge them if it were mine I would get a grp 27
they have some now that are deep cycle/ starting which would be better if you don't drain them as far as recharge cycles!!