Newbie needs help selecting model

[josephny]

I've been reading threads and learning as much as possible.

I'm hoping to get some help with figuring out which model/type is best for me.

I own over 100 acres in NY, most of it woods. There's a couple of big fields.

Some of the things I do on my land include:
1) Make/smooth trails through the dry, but rough/rocky/tight-area woods
2) Make trails through wet area (see my other thread on making a corduroy road)
3) Wife wants another garden plot for corn
4) I have dream of clearing out the trees that have grown up around and are stealing the light from my beloved blueberry bushes
5) Give kids rides
6) I'm sure there are other things, but this is what comes to mind

The land is mostly flat, but there are a couple of hills that rise about 15-20 feet over 50-100 foot horizontal (my calculations result in a 12-17 degree incline).

The trees are close together in many place.

The forest floor has plenty of fallen trees, ruts, rocks, etc.

I'm concerned that a track machine (bobcat-style) would be more appropriate.

Thanks very much,

Joe

 

[TripleR]

Very thought provoking and I am sure you will get some good information. While quite detailed, you will need to define what tight woods are. My son and I just used an M8540 and L5030 in very tight woods, but sure wouldn't recommend it. Our "woods tractor" is a 72 HP MF 375, but your woods may be tighter than ours.

Either a B or L/GL 30 HP or so will work for you. My personal preference without seeing you property would be something like a GL32/3540. Now if it would fit I would go bigger as weight and power are going to help in tree clearing.

As has been stated many times here, you can do the same things with a smaller tractor than a larger one, it just takes longer. Of course there are always the exception such as handling large FEL loads.

I have done the things you mentioned with a Ford NAA and a lot with a BX2200/2660 as that is what I had and all I could afford.

As to the skid steer, we have used them and decided while they work great for some things, they are not as versatile as a tractor and if we need one, we rent it.

Good luck in your quest and I recommend that you consider all makes before buying to see what fits you the best.

 

[leonz]

I've been reading threads and learning as much as possible.

I'm hoping to get some help with figuring out which model/type is best for me.

I own over 100 acres in NY, most of it woods. There's a couple of big fields.

Some of the things I do on my land include:
1) Make/smooth trails through the dry, but rough/rocky/tight-area woods
2) Make trails through wet area (see my other thread on making a corduroy road)
3) Wife wants another garden plot for corn
4) I have dream of clearing out the trees that have grown up around and are stealing the light from my beloved blueberry bushes
5) Give kids rides
6) I'm sure there are other things, but this is what comes to mind

The land is mostly flat, but there are a couple of hills that rise about 15-20 feet over 50-100 foot horizontal (my calculations result in a 12-17 degree incline).

The trees are close together in many place.

The forest floor has plenty of fallen trees, ruts, rocks, etc.

I'm concerned that a track machine (bobcat-style) would be more appropriate.

Thanks very much,

Joe

As TripleR has said you have thought it out well,
and now its time to determine your choice if it
possible or really desired or "really what is needed".



The land

The topography your intended or eventual
usage for recreation or profit.

logging for timber-
do I have the stumpage to
justify this?

A soft wood tree farm which
will provide income quickly or in
growing christmas trees.

A teraced vineyard will provide
a much quicker return on your
investment if the land is
suitable for viticulture in
grapes as most
New York State land is.




Will the ground be better
suited in terrace developement
to reduce the slope gradient
and any mitigate effects from
natural and man made erosion.

Terracing increases the
available land area for an
intended use allowing one to
use steep terrain economically
and effectively.

Terracing also increases the
amount of land exposed to
sunlight which is a godsend for
soft wood tree farming

the act of terracing also slows
down any possible loss of top
soil and its effects.





You budget

Your excess income that or
may be or is available to begin
or maintain this operation or property

What implements do I want or
really need?



Will it be simpler to rent equipment occasionally or hire it done, as a less cost
alternative in the scheme of things as I may not or will not be using the equipment on a daily basis and rental would reduce the requirement of purchase as well.



What if any decision will be made or has been made about building a future home and or drilling a well and adding a septic system?








As a fellow New Yorker I must be prudent in having to remind you that The NYSDEC will come knocking on your door very quickly if you start moving dirt or making lots of silt which, will eventually reach a waterway near you or on your property if you start clearing land and making lots of mud that will eventually silt and wash to a wateway.



Before you proceed any further I would contact the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation and locate a state forester near you and ask to have him examine the property as it will save you a huge hand full of headaches or possible legal actions as you proceed with your project.

If your property is near or part of the "Emerald Necklace" land trust and you would be able to obtain special tax advantages where the property can be placed in a land trust free of taxation with the Nature Conservancy" which will have the benefits of protected status.


The NYS forest service does not charge for this service and they will provide you with all the required information after they examine your property and after this is done you may find that you will gain huge benefits from thier survey if your property and having the proper guidance to maintain the land you own for future generations and in the process be able to reduce the amount of air pollution by creating a tree farm which will make valuable timber, store carbon, and create oxygen in the process. :thumbsup::drool:

 

[josephny]

Very thought provoking and I am sure you will get some good information. While quite detailed, you will need to define what tight woods are. My son and I just used an M8540 and L5030 in very tight woods, but sure wouldn't recommend it. Our "woods tractor" is a 72 HP MF 375, but your woods may be tighter than ours.

Either a B or L/GL 30 HP or so will work for you. My personal preference without seeing you property would be something like a GL32/3540. Now if it would fit I would go bigger as weight and power are going to help in tree clearing.

As has been stated many times here, you can do the same things with a smaller tractor than a larger one, it just takes longer. Of course there are always the exception such as handling large FEL loads.

I have done the things you mentioned with a Ford NAA and a lot with a BX2200/2660 as that is what I had and all I could afford.

As to the skid steer, we have used them and decided while they work great for some things, they are not as versatile as a tractor and if we need one, we rent it.

Good luck in your quest and I recommend that you consider all makes before buying to see what fits you the best.

Thanks for the analysis and recommendations.

By tight I mean that a good part of the woods is such that the trees are only several (3-6) feet apart. I have made a series of paths, some by renting a guy with a machine, some by hand/atv/lopper/chainsaw.

It was shocking to me how easily it is get lost on 100+ acres of woods, so I became determined to make a series of labeled paths and use a GPS and Xmap software with topo and aerial photograph overlays to ID the paths.

Do you have any link to the GL32/3540 -- just to start me in the right direction?

My big project now is getting the back of the land, blocked by rhodendrum and wetness.

 

[josephny]

As TripleR has said you have thought it out well,
and now its time to determine your choice if it
possible or really desired or "really what is needed".



The land

The topography your intended or eventual
usage for recreation or profit.

logging for timber-
do I have the stumpage to
justify this?

A soft wood tree farm which
will provide income quickly or in
growing christmas trees.

A teraced vineyard will provide
a much quicker return on your
investment if the land is
suitable for viticulture in
grapes as most
New York State land is.




Will the ground be better
suited in terrace developement
to reduce the slope gradient
and any mitigate effects from
natural and man made erosion.

Terracing increases the
available land area for an
intended use allowing one to
use steep terrain economically
and effectively.

Terracing also increases the
amount of land exposed to
sunlight which is a godsend for
soft wood tree farming

the act of terracing also slows
down any possible loss of top
soil and its effects.





You budget

Your excess income that or
may be or is available to begin
or maintain this operation or property

What implements do I want or
really need?



Will it be simpler to rent equipment occasionally or hire it done, as a less cost
alternative in the scheme of things as I may not or will not be using the equipment on a daily basis and rental would reduce the requirement of purchase as well.



What if any decision will be made or has been made about building a future home and or drilling a well and adding a septic system?








As a fellow New Yorker I must be prudent in having to remind you that The NYSDEC will come knocking on your door very quickly if you start moving dirt or making lots of silt which, will eventually reach a waterway near you or on your property if you start clearing land and making lots of mud that will eventually silt and wash to a wateway.



Before you proceed any further I would contact the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation and locate a state forester near you and ask to have him examine the property as it will save you a huge hand full of headaches or possible legal actions as you proceed with your project.

If your property is near or part of the "Emerald Necklace" land trust and you would be able to obtain special tax advantages where the property can be placed in a land trust free of taxation with the Nature Conservancy" which will have the benefits of protected status.


The NYS forest service does not charge for this service and they will provide you with all the required information after they examine your property and after this is done you may find that you will gain huge benefits from thier survey if your property and having the proper guidance to maintain the land you own for future generations and in the process be able to reduce the amount of air pollution by creating a tree farm which will make valuable timber, store carbon, and create oxygen in the process. :thumbsup::drool:

This is exclusively for pleasure at this point. There's plenty of softwood and a little hardwood, but I don't have the time or strength (or desire) to log the property.

There's really only 2 hills, one about 1/6 of the way back from the public road and the other just behind the wet/rhodedendrum blocked area, so there's plenty of flat land (I'd say it's almost all flat) and no benefit to any terracing (although it might be a fun project to make a terraced area on one of the hills.

There is a distant fantasy of making a blueberry farm. The dirt is just perfect for blueberries. I have quite a few acres of naturally occuring (i.e., no help from me) productive blueberry bushes and family and friends pick ton when they're in season.

I would like to help them by clearing trees and opening up light and air around many bushes.

The wet area I describe is not a silt producing thing -- it's not a swamp as one might thing as there's no noticable surface water. It's just a wet area in the middle of the woods that happens to extend from one side of my property to the other and has been overgrown with rhodendendrum for decades/centuries.

Regarding building a future home/well/septic -- it might happen, but there, too, I wouldn't be the one to build it (lack of time, expertise, etc.).

So it's all recreation, with land improvement, path creation, some farming, an occassional hay-type ride, and moving stuff around (like building a tree house way back in the woods).

I certainly don't want to start a brand war, but I've heard spectacular things about Kubota and there's a dealer about 20 miles away (though I'm sure not the best deal around, I would need the biggest/best on-site service package possible).

Thanks!

 

[josephny]

I went to kubota.com and configured a L3400 with FEL/back hoe and got a $32k price tag.

Several questions:

1) Would this be a good machine for my property and needs?
2) Is this configured well -- any suggestions for changes?
3) Given I need plenty of dealer support for all maintanance/repairs/winter storage, does it make sense to shop around lowest price if my local dealer is not competitive?
4) How much room should I expect in the price? If I go in ready to buy, can I get 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% off that price?
5) If I opt for 0% financing, do I still have the same negotiating leverage (i.e., doesn't the dealer still get the full sales price and Kubota handle the financing/cash flow aspect)?

Thanks!

 

[josephny]

I see a used 2007 L3400 w/FEL and back hoe, 4WD, 136 hours on it, "like new" for $24,000.

That's $8k less (more with the sales tax saving, I think).

Now I read the thread on used vs. new, but $8,000+ is substantial discount to the new price.

 

[rogerL1961]

no wonder why land is so cheap in NY State.

 

[LD1]

The L3400 is the "economy" line of kubotas. The GL's that were mentioned earlier, while the same HP wise, are a tad larger tractor. They also have more bells and whistles. Its kinda like comparing a car with manual windows and locks to one with power everything and leather seats. The L3400 is definatally the best way to get the most tractor for your money, but less luxury.

If maintenance and dealer support are important to you, I'd try to keep it local. But their is no harm in shopping around. It will give you more leverage to try to get a better deal out of your local dealer.

And you should be able to buy the package you priced for ~$28000-29000OTD. My father just got a quote from the local dealer for basically the same package but a L3800 instead and he was at ~$30k. So that will be about 15-20% off the online MSRP.

The L2800 and L3400 are being replaced by the L3200 and L3800. They are the same basic tractors, just a newer model #. You know how those things go. But since they are discontinuing the L3400, the dealer should have pretty good incentive to want to move it off his lot. Which works out to your advantage.

The L3400 is a great tractor and consistantly recieves very high marks on this site. I don't think you will go wrong if you can get it at a price you are comfortable with.

 

[TripleR]

Thanks for the analysis and recommendations.

By tight I mean that a good part of the woods is such that the trees are only several (3-6) feet apart. I have made a series of paths, some by renting a guy with a machine, some by hand/atv/lopper/chainsaw.

It was shocking to me how easily it is get lost on 100+ acres of woods, so I became determined to make a series of labeled paths and use a GPS and Xmap software with topo and aerial photograph overlays to ID the paths.

Do you have any link to the GL32/3540 -- just to start me in the right direction?

My big project now is getting the back of the land, blocked by rhododendron and wetness.

It appears as though you have found the information needed and received some really excellent advice.

As to the L3400, it most certainly should fit your needs. You will know by reading on various threads that there have been issues with the jerky 3-point hitch.

After initially looking at the Lxx00 Series, I went with the GL as I did not like the operator station. It was not as roomy as the GL and was a little more cramped getting on and off, no tilt steering etc. I also did not like how exposed the steering linkage was. I bought a used L30, but the new L40 has the HST plus transmission with some really nice features.

The GL won't do anything the L won't, so all that really matters is what is important to you and how much you are willing to pay.

At my age "comfort features" are a lot more important than they once were and will be more so in the future. I look at a tractor as a lifetime investment so I look not only to my present situation, but years into the future.

Good luck with your shopping and keep us posted.

 

[rpraymond]

You should really consider logging for the good of the trees, (thinning helps the trees that are left) and you'd be surprised at what you would get for your logs. If it's never been done before I'll bet you could pay for a new tractor with what you would make. I have 60 acres, about 30 wooded, and I've been working with a forestry consultant for about 15 years to help manage my wood lot. If you're near central NY PM me and I'll give you his #.

 

[BrierPatch]

I went to kubota.com and configured a L3400 with FEL/back hoe and got a $32k price tag.

Several questions:

1) Would this be a good machine for my property and needs?
2) Is this configured well -- any suggestions for changes?
3) Given I need plenty of dealer support for all maintanance/repairs/winter storage, does it make sense to shop around lowest price if my local dealer is not competitive?
4) How much room should I expect in the price? If I go in ready to buy, can I get 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% off that price?
5) If I opt for 0% financing, do I still have the same negotiating leverage (i.e., doesn't the dealer still get the full sales price and Kubota handle the financing/cash flow aspect)?

Thanks!

I see a used 2007 L3400 w/FEL and back hoe, 4WD, 136 hours on it, "like new" for $24,000.

That's $8k less (more with the sales tax saving, I think).

Now I read the thread on used vs. new, but $8,000+ is substantial discount to the new price.

Where I live I should just about be able to buy a new one for that used price. I was real interested in a L3400 with a FEL and BH. It seemed like a very good mid size tractor for my needs. My dealer told me he would sell it to me for $21k or something. This was in 2007 or 2008. While I did not end up getting it, I really had a hard time passing up the price. He knew I had been looking at his tractors for a while. I ended up getting a B2620 with FEL and BH and MMM instead, which oddly enough came to about the same price as the L3400 with FEL and BH. I got close to 20% off the Kubota website price on my tractor from two dealers with no haggeling. This was also with no talk of financing.

I rented a L3100 once and was really impressed with what it could do for its size. It had a loader and bush hog on it. It wasn't bad getting thru my woods with it. I used it to clear out small trees and sapplings where I was going to build my house so I had some room to work and layout foundation. I believe it was close to the size of the L3400. I think your woods might be a little tighter than mine though. The big trees(ones I can't drive over) are closer to 10' to 12' apart.

I would definetly check out the 3ph hitch operation on a L3400 first though with the reports of the jerkyness of them.

I have always liked the size of the L3400 for some reason. I believe there are several in that size range now though from kubota. I would visit a dealer and look at them in person to get a better idea of sizes.

Good Luck !

 

[josephny]

>>The L3400 is the "economy" line of kubotas.

I didn't realize that. I thought the L3xxx were the latest/greatest in the 30hp range.

>>The L3400 is definatally the best way to get the most tractor for your money, but less luxury.

It'll be my first (possibly only) tractor, and $30k is not chump change for me, so I'll have to settle for no luxury.

>If maintenance and dealer support are important to you, I'd try to keep it local. But their is no harm in shopping around. It will give you more leverage to try to get a better deal out of your local dealer.

Good advise.

>And you should be able to buy the package you priced for ~$28000-29000OTD. My father just got a quote from the local dealer for basically the same package but a L3800 instead and he was at ~$30k. So that will be about 15-20% off the online MSRP.

I wish I understand the nuances of the differences in the line -- 3400 vs 3800, for example. The web site doesn't make it easy. It could be me....

>>The L2800 and L3400 are being replaced by the L3200 and L3800. They are the same basic tractors, just a newer model #. You know how those things go. But since they are discontinuing the L3400, the dealer should have pretty good incentive to want to move it off his lot. Which works out to your advantage.

Is there anywhere I can fine the advantages of the 3800 over the 3400?

>>As to the L3400, it most certainly should fit your needs. You will know by reading on various threads that there have been issues with the jerky 3-point hitch.

That's what I'm still not sure about.

I googled "tractor mud" and see plenty of instances of tractors getting stuck. That's why I thought about a track machine. And, I've had 2 machines do work on my property (dozer and mini-excavator) and they were both track machines.

And, if I stay with a tractor, I'm wondering if small is not better, as most of my work will be in the woods.

>>I bought a used L30, but the new L40 has the HST plus transmission with some really nice features.

From what I read, the HST makes use much nicer/easier.

>>The GL won't do anything the L won't, so all that really matters is what is important to you and how much you are willing to pay.

That's still being negotiated with the wife.

A guy down the road has a L3130, I think about 8 years old, excellent condition, well maintained, low hours, wants $10k for it -- comes with loader. He says the same dealer that comes to him to do service will do the same for me. Any advice?

Thanks!

 

[nybirdman]

I had a L3130(2004) HST,is this one hydrostatic?I put 400 hrs on mine and traded it for a L4240HSTC(which is a cab model),I traded mostly for the cab.
I really liked my L3130,did everything I asked,I use the same implements on my new tractor.The L3130 is a excellent "woods" tractor..just the right size and power.If the one you are looking at has been maintained it is a good buy,you can always offer a little less.
Check TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors for used prices.

 

[TripleR]

>>The L3400 is the "economy" line of kubotas.

I didn't realize that. I thought the L3xxx were the latest/greatest in the 30hp range.

>>The L3400 is definatally the best way to get the most tractor for your money, but less luxury.

It'll be my first (possibly only) tractor, and $30k is not chump change for me, so I'll have to settle for no luxury.

>If maintenance and dealer support are important to you, I'd try to keep it local. But their is no harm in shopping around. It will give you more leverage to try to get a better deal out of your local dealer.

Good advise.

>And you should be able to buy the package you priced for ~$28000-29000OTD. My father just got a quote from the local dealer for basically the same package but a L3800 instead and he was at ~$30k. So that will be about 15-20% off the online MSRP.

I wish I understand the nuances of the differences in the line -- 3400 vs 3800, for example. The web site doesn't make it easy. It could be me....

>>The L2800 and L3400 are being replaced by the L3200 and L3800. They are the same basic tractors, just a newer model #. You know how those things go. But since they are discontinuing the L3400, the dealer should have pretty good incentive to want to move it off his lot. Which works out to your advantage.

Is there anywhere I can fine the advantages of the 3800 over the 3400?

>>As to the L3400, it most certainly should fit your needs. You will know by reading on various threads that there have been issues with the jerky 3-point hitch.

That's what I'm still not sure about.

I googled "tractor mud" and see plenty of instances of tractors getting stuck. That's why I thought about a track machine. And, I've had 2 machines do work on my property (dozer and mini-excavator) and they were both track machines.

And, if I stay with a tractor, I'm wondering if small is not better, as most of my work will be in the woods.

>>I bought a used L30, but the new L40 has the HST plus transmission with some really nice features.

From what I read, the HST makes use much nicer/easier.

>>The GL won't do anything the L won't, so all that really matters is what is important to you and how much you are willing to pay.

That's still being negotiated with the wife.

A guy down the road has a L3130, I think about 8 years old, excellent condition, well maintained, low hours, wants $10k for it -- comes with loader. He says the same dealer that comes to him to do service will do the same for me. Any advice?

Thanks!

I don't know anything about that model, but after looking at new and while in the process of buying one, we found a 7 year old L5030 with 735 hours and we jumped on it. We saved quite a bit of money and really like the tractor.

 

[LD1]

I had a L3130(2004) HST,is this one hydrostatic?I put 400 hrs on mine and traded it for a L4240HSTC(which is a cab model),I traded mostly for the cab.
I really liked my L3130,did everything I asked,I use the same implements on my new tractor.The L3130 is a excellent "woods" tractor..just the right size and power.If the one you are looking at has been maintained it is a good buy,you can always offer a little less.
Check TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors for used prices.

For the record, tractordata.com is a good place for specs and info on older tractors, but NOT pricing.

tractorhouse.com is where to go to check used prices.

 

[josephny]

You should really consider logging for the good of the trees, (thinning helps the trees that are left) and you'd be surprised at what you would get for your logs. If it's never been done before I'll bet you could pay for a new tractor with what you would make. I have 60 acres, about 30 wooded, and I've been working with a forestry consultant for about 15 years to help manage my wood lot. If you're near central NY PM me and I'll give you his #.

About 15 years ago the land was logged. We had someone come year before last and he said that there's mostly pine and that it was bringing so little money it wouldn't be worth it.

This is definitly not a job I'm capable of.

 

[josephny]

I had a L3130(2004) HST,is this one hydrostatic?I put 400 hrs on mine and traded it for a L4240HSTC(which is a cab model),I traded mostly for the cab.
I really liked my L3130,did everything I asked,I use the same implements on my new tractor.The L3130 is a excellent "woods" tractor..just the right size and power.If the one you are looking at has been maintained it is a good buy,you can always offer a little less.
Check TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors for used prices.

The 3130 is gone. Guy got his $10k on trade in back to the dealer, who then sold it for $12,500. Ugh.

Back to new (and convincing the wife, and figuring out if this is really what I need....).

 

[josephny]

For the record, tractordata.com is a good place for specs and info on older tractors, but NOT pricing.

tractorhouse.com is where to go to check used prices.

Got it -- thanks!