Lawsuit regarding E15

[Don87]

energy Independence,

The 2 most hated words in the english language to anyone that knows anything about oil availability, and what our government is doing.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


P.S. This is not a flame of 'davygp38'

 

[Diamondpilot]

I work in the marine and aviation industries. Ethanol is the enemy. Its a crap fuel for daily applications, fine for race applications. I hate the stuff. Here in Indiana selling a fuel for road use that is not E10 or in the case of diesel B2 is illegal. All fuels sold must be a bio mix.

For my small engines I now run 100LL aviation fuel. Its about $5 per gallon but I do not use that much per year. One $80 carb on a Go-Cart convinced me to stay away from the E10 crap in it. I have had so many issues with plugged up carbs and fuel systems, primarily from E10 dissolving fuel hose from inside out and unseen to the naked eye. New hoses are fine but any fuel hose 8 to 10 years or older will give you issues.

Just to make it clear, in Indiana its illegal to sell or run anything that is not E10 or B2 on the road. The only place strait gas or diesel may be sold is at Marinas, Airports, and Co-Ops for off road use only.

Chris

 

[davygp38]

The oil companies want you/us to believe it is the Middle East that is bumping the prices up... it's a bunch of B.S. The amount of oil we import from OPEC is minimal.

Where does the U.S. get their oil from?

http://www.sustainer.org/dhm_archive/index.php?display_article=vn355energyfactsed

Oil Industry Statistics from Gibson Consulting - imports/exports

Hey I took the time to read these links, and you are way off base, just using your own attachments. Number one, is your list of the top ten oil producers. the article says,"I only see three middle eastern countries on the list." In fact even though your list shows only three Middle Eastern countries,in the top ten, those countries belong to O.P.E.C. There are two other O.P.E.C. countries on the list making that half of the countries on your list belonging to a group of countries the regularly cuts oil production, to boost profits. I would point out, that no where in this article does it give a break down, on how much oil these countries provide to the U.S. However in your next article that was authored in the early 1990's the author who died in 2001, gives a break down of some of the numbers applicable in that time period. If you take the time to read them, your own source concludes that just Iraq,Kuwait,Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, provide 20% of the worlds out put of oil. Without wasting anymore of my time time, your assertion that we are not beholden to the Middle East for oil is ludicrous.:laughing: This country Needs to get independent, by any and all means possible, and those people can drink there own oil for all I care. Did I mention I was sent to Iraq, by my good old uncle, to fight for freedom, and cheap Oil? Full disclosure.

 

[unbidden]

Hey I took the time to read these links, and you are way off base, just using your own attachments. Number one, is your list of the top ten oil producers. the article says,"I only see three middle eastern countries on the list." In fact even though your list shows only three Middle Eastern countries,in the top ten, those countries belong to O.P.E.C. There are two other O.P.E.C. countries on the list making that half of the countries on your list belonging to a group of countries the regularly cuts oil production, to boost profits. I would point out, that no where in this article does it give a break down, on how much oil these countries provide to the U.S. However in your next article that was authored in the early 1990's the author who died in 2001, gives a break down of some of the numbers applicable in that time period. If you take the time to read them, your own source concludes that just Iraq,Kuwait,Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, provide 20% of the worlds out put of oil. Without wasting anymore of my time time, your assertion that we are not beholden to the Middle East for oil is ludicrous.:laughing: This country Needs to get independent, by any and all means possible, and those people can drink there own oil for all I care. Did I mention I was sent to Iraq, by my good old uncle, to fight for freedom, and cheap Oil? Full disclosure.

My point is that we are not as dependent as the powers that be would lead us to believe. We only import 25% from the middle east (give or take) depending on what article you read, the list is almost endless. Do we need to be less dependent on other countries for oil? It would be nice, but unless we're able to tap into the resources within the US its not going to happen using ethanol. EPA restrictions in this country handcuff our ability to drill and produce oil at an affordable price. When you think about it, it's not the price of the oil as much as it is the tax on the oil/gas that is bleeding us.

Bottom line, E-10, E-15, E-? isn't the answer.

 

[davygp38]

My point is that we are not as dependent as the powers that be would lead us to believe. We only import 25% from the middle east (give or take) depending on what article you read, the list is almost endless. Do we need to be less dependent on other countries for oil? It would be nice, but unless we're able to tap into the resources within the US its not going to happen using ethanol. EPA restrictions in this country handcuff our ability to drill and produce oil at an affordable price. When you think about it, it's not the price of the oil as much as it is the tax on the oil/gas that is bleeding us.

Bottom line, E-10, E-15, E-? isn't the answer.

I agree, that we need to use our own resources. we have to stop pandering to all the special interest groups. We need Hydro, on a huge scale, we need to increase our use of natural gas. We need more nuclear energy,we need to drill, drill, drill, and yes we need ethanol. I would point out that energy Independence is of strategic importance as well, and I am convinced that the push for ethanol is a response to that.. We can do it with what we got right here in the USA, but we let left wing radicals stop us so they can protect a spotted frog crab, and we let the right wing pro industry nut jobs prevent any reasonable regulation, that would protect the environment enough so the enviromaniacs wouldn't have anything to cry about.

 

[Willl]

One of the replies in the link Dan posted says,

My experience with ethanol teaches me that I get 10% less gas mileage when I use a 10% ethanol mix. How does conserve petroleum? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Anybody else experience this ?

 

[two_bit_score]

i'm not an expert on the "unbranded" definition. i guess i never really thought about it, but i always worked on the theory that it just meant that they were not locked to a brand, and they could negotiate with whoever would give them the best deal.

it wouldn't surprise me that some creative recycling was being done now, but i would be surprised that you are getting all recycled fuel. the volumes of fuel that are sold by even one station are pretty staggering, even here in the boonies. i don't think there are enough wrecked cars to mean that you could be getting more than a few drops of mystery fuel per gallon. sure, used fuel may be old, but how long does some fuel sit in big storage tanks before being used? it's also having more fuel added on a constant basis, so that old fuel is mixed with a lot of new fuel.

as far as not being graded or separated by ethanol content, well, i suppose it would be pretty hard to tell what was in any given wrecked car, but i think that would go back to my thought that the volume is so low that it's not making much of a difference. since all these stations sell multiple grades of fuel, any recycled would have to be considered to be the lowest grade, otherwise there would be claims of fraud if they tried to pass it off as higher octane than it was.

I didn't say or mean to imply that "all of the fuel" sold at any station was from salvage vehicles. The extracted fuel, as I understand it, is sold to the unbranded stations and mixed in whith whatever else they sell from where ever they get it. Also, of course, probably not all unbranded stations use this type of 'recycled' fuel.

>>>"any recycled would have to be considered to be the lowest grade, otherwise there would be claims of fraud if they tried to pass it off as higher octane than it was."

I don't think they are selling it seperately and labled as recycled gas if that is what you are saying.

 

[two_bit_score]

My point is that we are not as dependent as the powers that be would lead us to believe. We only import 25% from the middle east (give or take) depending on what article you read, the list is almost endless. Do we need to be less dependent on other countries for oil? It would be nice, but unless we're able to tap into the resources within the US its not going to happen using ethanol. EPA restrictions in this country handcuff our ability to drill and produce oil at an affordable price. When you think about it, it's not the price of the oil as much as it is the tax on the oil/gas that is bleeding us.

Bottom line, E-10, E-15, E-? isn't the answer.

Well, here is ome information about the amount of imported oil in one month:
Total U.S. Spend on Foreign Oil Rose to $28 Billion for Month of October
In his monthly update on the level of foreign oil imports in the U.S., energy expert T. Boone Pickens said that based on the latest figures from the Federal Reserve Economic Database, the U.S. imported 58 percent of its oil, or 341 million barrels in October 2010, sending approximately $28 billion, or $626,433 per minute, [...]

To me, that is too much.

IMO, gasohol is not the answer to curbing our fuel problems. The best answer, but not the only answer, is natural gas.

It's here in abundance, relatively cheap and is a very vialble motor fuel. Every car, truck and tractor in America can be operated on natural gas. Now, that is not to say that they all should be. Or, that they can be without modifications which would have a cost. But, we should be encouraging the manufacturing of OEM CNG vehicles.

Just starting on fleet trucks would be huge improvement and what a 'stimulus' to the economy if the government would really get behind it like they should.

Take that money that is going to gasohol and put it toward converting fleet vehicles to natural gas nd we could keep $$billions$$ from going to foreign countries that hate us.

 

[unbidden]

Well, here is ome information about the amount of imported oil in one month:
Total U.S. Spend on Foreign Oil Rose to $28 Billion for Month of October
In his monthly update on the level of foreign oil imports in the U.S., energy expert T. Boone Pickens said that based on the latest figures from the Federal Reserve Economic Database, the U.S. imported 58 percent of its oil, or 341 million barrels in October 2010, sending approximately $28 billion, or $626,433 per minute, [...]

To me, that is too much.

IMO, gasohol is not the answer to curbing our fuel problems. The best answer, but not the only answer, is natural gas.

It's here in abundance, relatively cheap and is a very vialble motor fuel. Every car, truck and tractor in America can be operated on natural gas. Now, that is not to say that they all should be. Or, that they can be without modifications which would have a cost. But, we should be encouraging the manufacturing of OEM CNG vehicles.

Just starting on fleet trucks would be huge improvement and what a 'stimulus' to the economy if the government would really get behind it like they should.

Take that money that is going to gasohol and put it toward converting fleet vehicles to natural gas nd we could keep $$billions$$ from going to foreign countries that hate us.

Agreed, we need alternatives. We do rely too much on foreign oil, but how much from the middle east was imported?

I don't want to get into why we (USA) are in the middle east, this topic is about E-15.

 

[Don87]

Agreed, we need alternatives. We do rely too much on foreign oil, but how much from the middle east was imported?

I don't want to get into why we (USA) are in the middle east, this topic is about E-15.

I try to steer clear of these type of discussions, because they are 100% politically motivated.

But back on topic, we don't need alternatives, we need to drill.

The last estimates that I saw for the United States was that we have 300 to 500 years (yes, I said years) worth of oil within our borders and off the coasts of this country.

Ya wanna know why oil is going up again..............Can we say "moratorium".

This administration has stopped all drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, has ordered that all active wells be shut down in the Gulf, and has stopped offshore drilling in Alaska.

Even though the U.S. supreme court told him it was unlawful to do so.

Can we say 7 to 10 dollar a gallon of gas everyone?:thumbdown: