BEAVER: Need Help! Just will not start

drshatzer · Dec 15, 2010

I just installed a new head gasket. I'm getting good Fuel and oil pressure(at least its coming up as we try to start). I'm also getting smoke, White. The Fuel lever has been in every position. I usually try to start in full throttle position. I just can not get it to start. I have current to the glow plugs (but Have new plugs on the way just in case). As for the battery I have a 650 CC exide, brand new and I'm keeping a charger on it........

It turns and turns over just will not smoke. What am I missing? Its got to be something so simple that I just can't get it....
Please help.
The machine is a s370 Beaver 2wd model

Arkie Jim · Dec 21, 2010

drshatzer said:
I just installed a new head gasket. I'm getting good Fuel and oil pressure(at least its coming up as we try to start). I'm also getting smoke, White. The Fuel lever has been in every position. I usually try to start in full throttle position. I just can not get it to start. I have current to the glow plugs (but Have new plugs on the way just in case). As for the battery I have a 650 CC exide, brand new and I'm keeping a charger on it........

It turns and turns over just will not smoke. What am I missing? Its got to be something so simple that I just can't get it....
Please help.
The machine is a s370 Beaver 2wd model

By mentioning the glow plug, I am assuming it is a Diesel engine tractor. If so--did you run it out of fuel and than add fuel without bleeding the injectors. They will get air in them and prevent starting.
Check the fuel filter also.----My glow plug I hold it for about 20-30 seconds and than move to full throttle. When turning over I may get some white smoke but once it starts than its black smoke.
If it is an injector problem or was empty or real low on fuel, check the manual on how to bleed them. Never allow a Diesel tractor to run out of fuel--I learned that on the forklifts.--It is easy to bleed them now-- the old days was a different story.

drshatzer · Dec 21, 2010

I have fuel and fuel pressure. The injectors seem good. (If you cover the end of the line after bleeding, it will blow your finger almost completely off if it, so good pressure).
I'm using the glow plugs but I ordered new ones just to be sure.
Now an odd question but I would assume that full throttle is all the way back on a beaver (with the horizontal stick) unlike the Bucks which was all the way forward with the vertical stick.

I now seem to have great compression. I tried to drag it in high gear but it just will slide the tires.

Arkie Jim · Dec 21, 2010

drshatzer said:
I have fuel and fuel pressure. The injectors seem good. (If you cover the end of the line after bleeding, it will blow your finger almost completely off if it, so good pressure).
I'm using the glow plugs but I ordered new ones just to be sure.
Now an odd question but I would assume that full throttle is all the way back on a beaver (with the horizontal stick) unlike the Bucks which was all the way forward with the vertical stick.

I now seem to have great compression. I tried to drag it in high gear but it just will slide the tires.

My Buck throttle is a vertical handle to the right of the steering wheel--Forward reduces power----Pull back increases power.---My Buck has a 3 speed PTO and neutral. My Buck PTO has to be in Neutral in order to dismount why running. I have a low and high range transfer control handle on my tractor on the right side
I have never attempted to pull my tractor, but I would assume the PTO on mine would have to be in neutral to include the high / low transfer case and gear shift.
Does your Beaver have wheel lock pedals--one on each side--help to lock that wheel when turning.
Strain on the above mentioned areas can damage your tractor if you abuse or choose the incorrect method to start it. Personnally I would use the battery--Is your battery good--have you checked it for dead cells.
Do you have a manual---I bought 3 manuals for my Buck and they are not that high priced and they are life savers when you have tractor problems.
Manuals is how I learned the details of my tractor--I took the manual and used it on site to locate things on the tractor---Great help--Parts manual are life savers also if you need parts.--Trouble shooting is in these manuals also.
Be Patient and think---at times just sat down and read about the problem--it is easy to overlook things---I have many times.

dex3361 · Dec 23, 2010

Try using a heat gun or hair dryer into the air intake while you are cranking it over. Not quite as good as the glow plugs but works in a pinch.

oliver28472 · Dec 27, 2010

Whatever you do, don't use ether. Sounds like you have it primed but if you need to do it again, there is a beginning and ending sequence. Basically start at the tank and follow the flow of the fuel. There are two bleed screws at the tank, then one where the line goes into the pump. I've never had to take a line off at an injector and don't recommend that. If you do, the fuel pressure at that point is extremely high and could cause injury. You don't want that diesel in your blood stream. I have a Buck that my Dad bought new and it could tell stories. My throttle is wide open all the way back. Use jumper cables if you have to. Have you tested the glow plugs?

drshatzer · Jan 5, 2011

I just got new glow plugs and tried that. It helped some (I got better white smoke) but still no start. I just got a new started I will try that and see. I don't think it is turning over fast enough.
Thanks,
Ray

oliver28472 · Jan 6, 2011

get a compression tester that will fit the glow plug holes and test both cylinders. Here is a previous thread I remembered that will give more information about the compression needed, etc:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mitsubishi-satoh/34842-hard-start-beaver.html

drshatzer · Jan 6, 2011

Question:

how would I know if I have a cracked piston with the engine still together. When I had the head off I didn't see any cracks in the top......

I have pressure coming out the top of the valve tube. Is this normal? I held my finger over the tube and then I released. It has some pressure behind it (it hisses). Cracked Piston? Valve problem? or is the pressure normal?

Thanks
Ray

AVSatoh · Jan 11, 2011

Have you checked for dirty injectors....you can have plenty of pressure, but if they don't spray it is very tough to start....I had similar issues, with the white smoke etc....the tractor had sat for some time and the cleaner did the trick...worth a try anyway. Good luck.

Arkie Jim · Jan 11, 2011

AVSatoh said:
Have you checked for dirty injectors....you can have plenty of pressure, but if they don't spray it is very tough to start....I had similar issues, with the white smoke etc....the tractor had sat for some time and the cleaner did the trick...worth a try anyway. Good luck.

Sorry you still having problems starting the Beaver. Question??--Have you used any ether to start this tractor. How long are you heating the glow plug. The manual suggest 20-30 seconds---My Satoh--I have noticed it takes a while to crank when I rush the glow plug heating, so I now allow it to heat pretty good before I start it. Diesel has to get hot before it will burn so it may take a few cranks to get it started. The hotter the fuel gets--the better my Satoh runs. Mine runs great after a couple of hours--These little tractor will work great--need to watch your water in the radiator--mine uses about a gallon after 3-4 hours of work.
I am not an expert on diesel fuel but some is for hiway use and some is off road---Sulpher is in the off road fuel but I ran it in mine--no problem.
I can suggest one thing---Fix it and keep it---Mine I love it and it is a great size for my landscaping and garden work. Keep the chin up--I will do some checking and see if I can relay some advise.:thumbsup:

BillRodgers · Jan 15, 2011

If I read your comments correctly, you are getting compression pressure in your crankcase or "blowby". This is probably due to a cracked piston and would certainly cause the no start problem. First, get an accurate measure of compression in each cylinder. Use a diesel compression guage and a 10mm adapter in each glow plug hole. Factory spec is 455 lbs. Anything less than 350 indicates a problem. If you have a cracked piston there will be a significant difference between the cylinders.

If you want to discuss your results, call us weekdays 1-800-609-5110. We can furnish parts. Bill - satohparts.com

PaulRoberts · Jan 16, 2011

Take the glow plugs out and check compression. The compression should be 425-455 Ibs. If it is under 400 take it apart and put rings in it and check the valves.If you need parts we can help

Small Import Tractor
503-628-6319

mit · Jan 18, 2011

ok your problem is not clearly stated.all you said is you changed the tractor head gasket and the tractor would not start.then you asked if there should be pressure in the valve cover hose.no there should not be any hi pressure there.
1. was the timing set correctly?
2. what is the temperature where the tractor is?
3. did you put a block heater on the tractor?
4. did you check your compression?

chips papaw · Jan 18, 2011

check the electric fuel shut off it will be on injection pump its simple to check have somebody turn the key on and off if its good you should be able to hear it click if not theres 2 ways to fix it.either replace it or take it apart take out plunger and seal then adjust thottle linkage where when you thottle down it shuts the motor off . and it will never do it agian after you remove the plunger you will have to put the hollowed out switch back on so it wont leak i got ahead of myself. charlie

oliver28472 · Jan 19, 2011

Beavers don't have electric shutoff.

PILOON · Jan 19, 2011

oliver28472 said:
Beavers don't have electric shutoff.

Beaver is a Mitsubishi, or the later models are, and for sure and the MT160/180 have electric shut off as well as a manual shut off capability.

It might be possible that the greys don't have that feature but my MT180D sure does.
Now it is possible that the electric shut off is a USA compliance that is not on the greys.

As an added safety feature I enabled my manual shut off using a simple choke cable.

My parts manual also shows a whole lot of minor complience items for various markets.

wrenchturner · Jan 19, 2011

After my Beaver got over heated (loaned out) it would not start. What happened is he overheated it and scored a piston causing low compression on one cylinder. It would try to start on one cylinder that had good compression but would not.

oliver28472 · Jan 20, 2011

PILOON said:
Beaver is a Mitsubishi, or the later models are, and for sure and the MT160/180 have electric shut off as well as a manual shut off capability.

It might be possible that the greys don't have that feature but my MT180D sure does.
Now it is possible that the electric shut off is a USA compliance that is not on the greys.

As an added safety feature I enabled my manual shut off using a simple choke cable.

My parts manual also shows a whole lot of minor complience items for various markets.

The original poster stated that his tractor was a S-370. That makes it a Satoh. The Satoh 370 was made from 1976-1981 at which time the S-372 and MT-372 started. I still don't think the 370 had the electric shutoff. If I had to guess, I would say that began with the updated 160's and 180's.

JEH412 · Jan 21, 2011

The S370 is manual shutoff only. My S370 was sold in the USA and is equipped this way. I can take the key out and put it in my pocket once the tractor is started.
John