Chevy vs Ford Diesel Shootout

[Stimw]

Chevrolet Challenges Ford to a Heavy-Duty Towing Showdown! - PickupTrucks.com News
Seems like an honest test.

 

[Willl]

Uh-oh, DP heard that. :laughing:

 

[Raspy]

Ford says "no". :laughing:

 

[Cat_Driver]

Here's a hear to head on FORD'S site


http://www.fordvehicles.com/2011superduty/?p=headtohead&video=headtohead-fuel-efficiency-rematch&INTCMP=fv-fv-a2b02c03d000411e17f11g01h17j11k09m2n0p20101101


2011 Ford Super Duty Truck | A Hard-Working Pickup Built Ford Tough | FordVehicles.com

 

[Diamondpilot]

Two things come to mind. First, the GM is 800# lighter on average. That may or may not be true with the new GM trucks since they finally got a better and heavier chassis.

Second is who is picking what the test will be? Yes, GM or Ford may be better than one or the other at a particular weight. I would like to see them tested with 5,000#, 7,500#, 10,000#, 12,000#, 15,000#, 17,500#, 20,000#, and at max tow weight.

I would not be surprised at medium weights the GM will out perform the Ford. GM has really made strides in the last year. I have said it before and will say it again, I am really impressed with what GM had done this year. They finally got decent brakes, a real chassis, a front axle that can finally handle some weight, ect.

Now the real question is when will Dodge get back into the game?

Chris

 

[Dmace]

Now the real question is when will Dodge get back into the game?

If that game is the pissing contest on who can make the most hp/tq then I'm glad their not in it. I would rather have an "under-powered" proven and reliable million-mile engine rather than a powerhouse throw-away that will be redesigned and renamed every few years...

How much is that Diesel Exhaust Fluid again? :laughing:

 

[jcmseven]

No matter what the reason, nor what the outcome may be, it does not look good in this class of vehicles to turn down a challenge like this--if both agree to the terms.

John M

 

[Stimw]

Well here is the rest of the story, I thought I posted this link but I posted the earlier one. This test has no high paid actors and is not conducted on a closed course with no independent observers certifying.
Chevy vs. Ford in Heavy-Duty Rumble in the Rockies - PickupTrucks.com News

 

[Diamondpilot]

Very interesting. I give it to GM. Like I said before they had a truck that would FINALLY give Ford a run for its money. This new truck is a winner. One thing I did notice reading the article is the great differences in gearing of the tranny. The GM uses much higher gears than the Ford in the tranny??? Not sure how this works out in the real world but it looks like Ford missed the gearing in the tranny.

Dodge is still out of the picture and I still will not support GM.

I would really like to see Toyota and Nissan get into the Heavy Duty Diesel truck Market.

Chris

 

[Lt CHEG]

How much is that Diesel Exhaust Fluid again? :laughing:

You'll be able to buy it at your local RAM dealer too in 2012 I believe. I did look at the Dodges in my search for a new truck too and I had a couple of frank discussions with one of the dealers. He told me that Chrysler knows that it will not be able to meet the next round of emissions requirements with the 6.7 liter Cummins as is so they too will be adding a urea injection system to their new trucks, it is already in the works according to this dealer who had just gotten back from a seminar put out by Chrylser. I'm actually looking forward to the next redesign of the Cummins to include urea injection. The extra cost of the urea is more than made up for by the much improved fuel economy. Unfortunately the environmental lobby has won the last few rounds so federal law has mandated that we trade fuel economy for lower emissions so like it or not urea injection is here to stay. The days of the simple diesel are over forever so I'm more than happy to embrace the new technology as it is giving fuel economy in the case of the Ford and GM engines almost as good as the pre emissions days, while the engines themselves are delivering 50 to 60 percent more power which also yields more capability. As for me personally neither the 2011 Ford or Chevy diesels were necessary for the work that I needed to do and their vastly increased cost over the deal I got on my 2010 Ford would likely never have been made up for with their higher fuel economy based upon the number of miles I drive per year (Around 6,000) with my truck. I'm pleased with the choice I made and if I keep my truck past the warranty period I will remove the DPF and add a tuner and end up with respectable fuel economy again that rivals the new urea equipped engines, at least as reported by many folks who have gone the DPF delete route. Until that day I'll just have to burn an old tire from time to time to tick off the environmental lobby.

 

[jcmseven]

An interestingly and expected outcome here. I was, and still am, a Ford man but it is hard to ignore the power and performance of the GM trucks. I have been looking at the 2011's, but honestly my 2009 runs so well, it is hard to me to want to trade it.

John M

 

[W7XYZ]

If that game is the pissing contest on who can make the most hp/tq then I'm glad their not in it. I would rather have an "under-powered" proven and reliable million-mile engine rather than a powerhouse throw-away that will be redesigned and renamed every few years...

Not to comment on Dodge, but who cares how much rubber I can burn? Why buy a 2011 anything when next year, the other guy will offer more in the pissing contest? I'd be impressed with something more practical and reliable that will be around for a while.

 

[Dmace]

You'll be able to buy it at your local RAM dealer too in 2012 I believe.

Most likely but it has nothing to do with meeting emissions standards, it's all about cost. It's MUCH cheaper to install a DEF injection system rather than a DPF setup. Dodge is also putting off going to the cheaper system until DEF is more widely available. I only have one place (NAPA) around here that carries it right now. The chassis-cab RAMs will have DEF for 2011 model year while the RAM trucks will not have it until at least 2012.

I'd be impressed with something more practical and reliable that will be around for a while.

Exactly my point, you can buy a strung out GM/Ford diesel that will be laced with recalls, problems, and broken parts or buy a proven contender that keeps working day in and day out without constantly needing to be redesigned, reflashed, recalled, etc...

On topic, I am not surprised by the outcome especially since this is Ford's first in-house built diesel engine and their transmission is relatively new as well. I would also like to see these trucks on a dyno to see where they make their power. The Cummins makes its peak torque (650lb.ft) at just above idle (1,500 rpms) to over 2,800 rpms. :thumbsup:

 

[Lt CHEG]

Exactly my point, you can buy a strung out GM/Ford diesel that will be laced with recalls, problems, and broken parts or buy a proven contender that keeps working day in and day out without constantly needing to be redesigned, reflashed, recalled, etc...

I've said all along that if I could get a Cummins in a Ford or Chevy I would gladly do so. I truly believe that it is the best diesel engine out there. However the 6.7 liter Cummins is not the same care free, simple design that the 5.9 was. The guy who services my uncle's truck is one of the best diesel mechanics in the area and he says that the 6.7 liter Cummins was an absolute nightmare when it first came out. It took him a while to get things figured out with the 6.7. He likes the Cummins the best too, but according to him the 6.7 liter Cummins does not have the same drive it a million miles reliability that the 5.9 liter Cummins was famous for. He drives a Ford by the way and says that he can get any of the big three to run terrific, but they all have weaknesses in one area or another.

As for having to get your computer reflashed, answering a recall, getting improvements made to your truck, the Dodge's Cummins engine may need the least of that treatment out of the big three, but the rest of the truck has issues. My uncle is a loyal Dodge guy, has gone through 4 transmissions on his Cummins truck, had to put out a fire in the passenger compartment caused by faulty wiring by Dodge and puts up with other quirks with his Ram. Even he admits that if he didn't love the way that the trucks look so much that even the Cummins engine wouldn't likely be enough to keep him driving a Dodge instead of a GM or Ford. To use his words not mine, "The Dodge has got the best engine in the marketplace by far, but the only problem is the entire rest of the truck." I personally think that Dodge has come a long way and I must admit that I've had great luck with my Dodge Durango government issued car but to say that Dodges haven't had to go back to their dealers for repairs while Ford and Chevy has is just disingenuous.

 

[Dmace]

to say that Dodges haven't had to go back to their dealers for repairs while Ford and Chevy has is just disingenuous.

Clearly, I was talking about the diesel engines and not the truck as a whole but feel free to run-off a complete rant anyways...

Oh yeah, my best friends' fathers' cousins' nephew had a transmission problem with his Toyota so all their transmissions must be junk...

 

[Lt CHEG]

Clearly, I was talking about the diesel engines and not the truck as a whole but feel free to run-off a complete rant anyways...

Oh yeah, my best friends' fathers' cousins' nephew had a transmission problem with his Toyota so all their transmissions must be junk...

I understand that you were talking about the diesel engines in the truck. My point is that it takes more than just an engine to make the truck work. An engine that is superior to the competition does no good if another vital part of the truck is not on par with that engine. I don't believe that pointing out some of the other common problems associated with keeping one brand of truck running is any more of a rant than pointing out that there have been teething issues with the competition as they have tried to build engines to compete with the industry leading engine.

As for pointing out the issues that my uncle has had with his truck, it's not like I rarely see my uncle or his truck. My uncle lives 2 and a half miles away from me and him and I use my tractor to do some side jobs for extra money. We see each other twice a week or more on average. Also when I have something that I couldn't tow with my truck I used his Dodge. In fact when I bought the backhoe for my tractor which I didn't feel comfortable pulling with my Silverado I used my uncle's Ram to tow my tractor and backhoe. I use or am around my uncle's truck a lot so my experiences with it aren't just "through the grapevine" they are real experiences. Just like when I talk about my friend who had problems with his early 6.0 liter Ford V8 it's not just some guy I see once in a while, but a guy that I ride snowmobiles twice a week with during snowmobile season and caravan with his truck just as often. I really am only loyal to my wallet not to any truck manufacturer and I can honestly say that I'll give my money to any manufacturer that gives me the best product at the best value regardless of their name, where it's made or what the political ramifications of the company's operations are. I would just as easily give my money to GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. if they were the best value for my money and for my needs. I'd love to have a Dodge in the driveway because it is by far the best looking of all the truck manufacturers, but for this last purchase the value just wasn't there and that's why I bought a Ford, over even a GM which I've owned several problem free examples of over the last 10 years.

 

[crazyal]

I would really like to see Toyota and Nissan get into the Heavy Duty Diesel truck Market.

Chris

I'm not sure why they haven't gotten into the 3/4 and 1 ton market. Even if it was a truck for the camping market. It's not they can't build a diesel.

 

[jcmseven]

I know we all have different ideas about the use of one of these trucks. I use mine as a daily driver and put a lot of miles on it. I rarely tow (about 5-10 times per month at most), but when I do I usually tow fairly heavy (at the limit of what a 1/2 ton can safely tow on uneven terrain). I have been extremely well-pleased with the overall performance and drivability of my GMC and cannot imagine that I would be happier with any other truck (except maybe a new one). I know that there are many posters on our forum that run their trucks 300-400+ thousand miles before thinking of trading, but living in what I consider a bastion of heavy duty truckdom (western NC) I have yet to see anyone around here keep their truck that long. I have seen some in the 300K range but none over 500K. I often times look at the local classifieds and there are almost no trucks diesel included with over 150K miles. By then, I would assume one in most cases is very ready to trade into something else. The point here is that the Cummins has an excellent reputation for durability but at this moment is behind in the power game among stock trucks. In addition, it makes little more sense to me to have an 800,000 mile engine in a 200,000 mile truck than it does to have 400 bhp in a pickup. Both are overkill it their own way. I guess to each his own, but for me I would want the highest performance I could legally get out of whatever I drove no matter what the brand. It seems for this moment that brand is GM. Next year, who knows.

John M

 

[Kaizer Peas]

I guess what GM, Ford and Chrysler are trying to do is sell trucks and Ford now has 50% share of the heavy duty pickup market and must be doing something right. I just helped the cause when I bought a 2011 F250.:thumbsup:

 

[JESSE1]

Most likely but it has nothing to do with meeting emissions standards, it's all about cost. It's MUCH cheaper to install a DEF injection system rather than a DPF setup. Dodge is also putting off going to the cheaper system until DEF is more widely available. I only have one place (NAPA) around here that carries it right now. The chassis-cab RAMs will have DEF for 2011 model year while the RAM trucks will not have it until at least 2012.

The new Ford and GM trucks have a DPF and use DEF. More than likely Dodge will have to equip the Cummins the same way.