Problems with no ethanol gas

wowbw7 · Nov 19, 2010

Anyone try Pri-G or Pri-D? I've had good results with no problems for 2 years.

jonyyuma · Nov 19, 2010

I've got two generators to clean the carb's now, both had the reg stabil in them. One was run dry the other was wet with White BP gas and it was coked up the worst of the two. I wish there was a solution, as I am tired of gas problems, maybe i need to buy a Natural gas unit for my home? Unless we had an earthquake, it would solve some petty problems. Bad thing is it has to be a lot larger unit to carry the same loads on Ng. Jy.

Gary Fowler · Nov 20, 2010

I have not heard about gen sets having to be "a lot larger" True there is not the same energy in NG as gasoline, but I dont think you would have to upgrade to a larger genset unless you were already loaded to the max and that is not good for the generator to start with. You will burn more fuel with NG, but I dont think you will loose a substantial amount of your generators power output. The engine should not be running at maximum HP load on Gasoline so the difference in output wattage should not be noticeable.

Bird · Nov 20, 2010

Gary Fowler said:
I have not heard about gen sets having to be "a lot larger" True there is not the same energy in NG as gasoline, but I dont think you would have to upgrade to a larger genset unless you were already loaded to the max and that is not good for the generator to start with. You will burn more fuel with NG, but I dont think you will loose a substantial amount of your generators power output. The engine should not be running at maximum HP load on Gasoline so the difference in output wattage should not be noticeable.

Maybe it depends on how much "a lot" is.:laughing: I've had a generator in an RV that ran on LPG instead of gasoline and they claimed you would lose 11% when it was converted from gasoline to LPG. And some years ago, I worked a bit with a natural gas company that wanted the employees to run the dual fuel pickups on natural gas, but the employees kept switching back to gasoline because of the lack of power on natural gas.

Gary Fowler · Nov 20, 2010

I just looked up the specs on Generac Guardian series gensets which seem to be the most popular permanent mounted type of home generator. They all are set up to run LPG or NG not gasoline so you loose some power on that conversion if you go gasoline to vapor fuel. On the 8,10,14 & 17 KW generators they all loose 1000 watts by using NG rather than LPG. The 20KW loosed 2000 but the engine size between the 17 and the 20 is only 7 cc so it is underpowered compared to the 17 kw. WHen you go to the 25 Kw there is no loss at all. So I guess it is like Bird says "what is a lot" It all depends on the genset. Other brands may vary, I only looked up the Generac.

Coyote machine · Nov 20, 2010

Here's my take on the situation: I have an outboard motor transom mounted 200 HP Mercury on my boat. Last year for the first time in several years of having to spend +/- $1500 each year to have injectors and fuel pumps replaced as a result of ethanol gas, I drained the tank completely before putting the boat into the ocean water for the season. I ran the entire season on fuel I bought on land at a NON marine station, then topping it off from marine docks for the duration as I got low on the single 80 gallon rotocast poly tank in the boat's hull.
More so than anything else what I've found the problem to be with all my gas engines is how long the ethanol containing gas
sits in the tank before being run through the engine. Think about this: if one buys for instance, from a seller whose gas is sitting in their storage tanks for a while before it hits your retail boat, lawnmower, generator, the actual life expectancy before phase separation of the ethanol is diminished. This results in more likely having gum up, octane reduction, water in the gas from ethanol being hygroscopic, etc. All these conditions destroy engines prematurely as a result of poor starts, poor running, carb gum-ups, overheating due to leaner mixtures etc.
I no longer store any gasoline for my chainsaws, mowers, atv, etc. beyond 30 days use. Many high end manufactures have begun, like Stihl and Echo, to introduce ethanol gas stabilizers into their gas/oil premix bottles to help alleviate some of the ethanol gas problems.

If I read the beginning of this thread correctly, it seems some of you have NON-ethanol gas still available to you and seem to be experiencing problems with that gas too?
It would seem that adding stabilizers to the gas to get it to 'clean' the carb(s) is a somewhat futile effort be it to clean an engine/carb on either a ethanol or non- ethanol running engine.
My Stihl chainsaw mechanic says he throws out many many carbs now due to ethanol gas jamming the needles and other vital components of the saws, lawnmowers, etc. Sometimes they can rebuild a carb, and other times it has to end up on the scrap heap. Most models allow no adjustments of the adjustment screws thanks to the EPA. I've seen the pile of carbs they toss after first trying in vain to save them. It fills 5 gallon pails all around the shop.

What is the solution? I don't have any answers except to drain out what is not being burnt in 30 days of sitting without use. Beyond that time frame and sometimes within it- (due to storage at gas stations and especially low use marine docks in the off season of the New England area). Using Marine grade Stabil is one option to seriously consider- I have some, but have not used it yet, though I hear good things about it. And using up 'old' fuel in our cars is also a way to get some use from it before it destroys an open system fuel engine like a lawnmower, generator, chainsaw. Ethanol in a car is enclosed in a CLOSED system in which no outside air is allowed in, and therefore can burn it more effectively with less phase separation than in the open systems mentioned above, that readily allow air in, and consequently allow for the fuel to deteriorate by water absorption.

Rob-D · Nov 20, 2010

Bird said:
Maybe it depends on how much "a lot" is.:laughing: I've had a generator in an RV that ran on LPG instead of gasoline and they claimed you would lose 11% when it was converted from gasoline to LPG. And some years ago, I worked a bit with a natural gas company that wanted the employees to run the dual fuel pickups on natural gas, but the employees kept switching back to gasoline because of the lack of power on natural gas.

Bird,
That's the beauty and the curse of crude. More power per liter than any other common fuel.
Rob

Rob-D · Nov 20, 2010

Coyote machine said:
Here's my take on the situation: I have an outboard motor transom mounted 200 HP Mercury on my boat. Last year for the first time in several years of having to spend +/- $1500 each year to have injectors and fuel pumps replaced as a result of ethanol gas, I drained the tank completely before putting the boat into the ocean water for the season. I ran the entire season on fuel I bought on land at a NON marine station, then topping it off from marine docks for the duration as I got low on the single 80 gallon rotocast poly tank in the boat's hull.
More so than anything else what I've found the problem to be with all my gas engines is how long the ethanol containing gas
sits in the tank before being run through the engine. Think about this: if one buys for instance, from a seller whose gas is sitting in their storage tanks for a while before it hits your retail boat, lawnmower, generator, the actual life expectancy before phase separation of the ethanol is diminished. This results in more likely having gum up, octane reduction, water in the gas from ethanol being hygroscopic, etc. All these conditions destroy engines prematurely as a result of poor starts, poor running, carb gum-ups, overheating due to leaner mixtures etc.
I no longer store any gasoline for my chainsaws, mowers, atv, etc. beyond 30 days use. Many high end manufactures have begun, like Stihl and Echo, to introduce ethanol gas stabilizers into their gas/oil premix bottles to help alleviate some of the ethanol gas problems.

If I read the beginning of this thread correctly, it seems some of you have NON-ethanol gas still available to you and seem to be experiencing problems with that gas too?
It would seem that adding stabilizers to the gas to get it to 'clean' the carb(s) is a somewhat futile effort be it to clean an engine/carb on either a ethanol or non- ethanol running engine.
My Stihl chainsaw mechanic says he throws out many many carbs now due to ethanol gas jamming the needles and other vital components of the saws, lawnmowers, etc. Sometimes they can rebuild a carb, and other times it has to end up on the scrap heap. Most models allow no adjustments of the adjustment screws thanks to the EPA. I've seen the pile of carbs they toss after first trying in vain to save them. It fills 5 gallon pails all around the shop.

What is the solution? I don't have any answers except to drain out what is not being burnt in 30 days of sitting without use. Beyond that time frame and sometimes within it- (due to storage at gas stations and especially low use marine docks in the off season of the New England area). Using Marine grade Stabil is one option to seriously consider- I have some, but have not used it yet, though I hear good things about it. And using up 'old' fuel in our cars is also a way to get some use from it before it destroys an open system fuel engine like a lawnmower, generator, chainsaw. Ethanol in a car is enclosed in a CLOSED system in which no outside air is allowed in, and therefore can burn it more effectively with less phase separation than in the open systems mentioned above, that readily allow air in, and consequently allow for the fuel to deteriorate by water absorption.

You may be right. I have a Stihl saw since the early 90's. Never had it apart or had a problem with the carb. What I have done is used Stihl's 2 cycle oil religiously from day one.

Rob