Need help adding a hydraulic adjusted plow

[mpilihp]

Hi I have a Pasquali tractor with a loader that I want to add a plow to for the winter. I plan on welding mounts inside the bucket to attach the plow to but I don't know how to hook into the hydraulic system to control the plow rams to move the plow angle.

Attached is a picture of the current control valve, on one side it does have a quick disconnect so it almost looks like I could add a single lever control in line with quick disconnects and have hoses with quick disconnects to run up the loader to connect the plow rams to.

My issues are:

Can I simply hook in as I said to this quick disconnect?

WHat to buy for a control valve? Where and model if someone can help with that

Quick disconnects - Ive read a few threads on this and I think the one on here is the AG standard one, but can someone help identify it for me.

Hoses - Is there a place I can order custom made specific length hoses?

Thanks

~ Phil

 

[ampa]

I'm quite sure you would have to do as I have done and add another spool valve near your tractors original onboard FEL valve/valves....

buy a cylinder/ram....around an 8-12 stroke double actiing cylinder for your angle...most people normaly use two single acting cylinders/rams.... I perfer usin' just one....

it will cost you some bucks as the cylinder spool valve plus fittings etc. don't come cheap..... but well worth the exspense and effort... a blade with a couple of heavy duty trip springs is highly recommended..... good luck......Ampa <>

 

[mpilihp]

I'm quite sure you would have to do as I have done and add another spool valve near your tractors original onboard front end loader valve/valves....

buy a cylinder/ram....around an 8-12 stroke double actiing cylinder for your angle...most people normaly use two single acting cylinders/rams.... I perfer usin' just one....

it will cost you some bucks as the cylinder spool valve plus fittings etc. don't come cheap..... but well worth the exspense and effort... a blade with a couple of heavy duty trip springs is highly recommended..... good luck......Ampa <>

Hi Ampa thanks, I already have a plow with a frame and two single action rams. The control valve is called a spool valve?? So id need a double action spool valve is that correct??

Can you suggest a make/model spool valve that I can order from somewhere?

Also need help identifying the quick connect type used on my current valve.

Thanks ~ Phil

 

[beenthere]

Phil
I'd suggest considering putting fixed links (or lock/tie down the cyl's) in place of the bucket curl cylinders on your FEL, and then use those hyd lines and control to angle your plow. Put in QC's to make switching back and forth easy to do.
For the single acting angle cyl's, just one line from each cyl. will do. IMO.

 

[ampa]

Would it be possible to supply a diagram or sketch of what your tryin' to explain here....it sure sounds like a much better plan than I had in mind....plus maybe less costly as well ....

I was only tryin' to give out my 2 cents worth....cause I know very little or nothin' about FEL's ...... as my tractor never came with one or any attachments.....Ampa <>

 

[beenthere]

What I'd consider doing if mounting plow to FEL frame.
Find a good position (curl) that will work good with the front plow.
Then, pin steel links (yellow lines in attached pic) to hold that curl position. (won't involve removing the two DA cylinders).
Then, put in quick connects at the far end of one cyl to attach one SA angle cyl, and at the other end of the other cyl to attach the other SA cyl. (shown by white dots with black center in attached photo).

Other quicker ideas for conversion might come up, but this should work. Some simpler design to fix the bucket position to make conversion between bucket and snow plow would be my goal.

 

[mpilihp]

Hi thanks for the suggestion Ive heard some compact tractors (John Deere) have a plow with quick connect mount so you can disconnect the bucket completely put the plow on, then ANGLE the plow how you want and remove the hoses from teh bucket angle rams via quick connects and put on the plow angle rams. Soposedly the bucket angle rams will stay put but i dont knoow.

I was thinking of future uses of a third control such as the 3pt hitch top link for adjusting a box blade, or a hydraulic dump trailer.... So Id just soon get the 3rd valve set up.

~ Phil

 

[mpilihp]

Would I be better off swapping the current 2 spool valve body out for a three spool unit?

THis unit isnt much more than a single spool unit I saw in another post about doing this same thing.

BMB 3 SPOOL VALVE BM20/3 - eBay (item 320293269267 end time Nov-18-10 18:25:51 PST)

How would i know if my hose connections (see pic above) would work on this??

~ Phil

 

[ampa]

When I first decieded to mount a new snowblade on my compact tractor....(I have a thread with photo's of my project)...I thought of only havin' the one valve for liftin' and raisin' the blade...

but then I thought since I was goin' to tap into my tractors hydraulic system I might as well cover the angle as well....although I had already bought the single spool

the young fellow in the hydraulics section of the store I was in suggested I trade in the single spool for a double.....and this is the route I took...

I believe your talkin' about removin' your tractors 2 spool valve for a 3 spool....yes I would go that route.....easier to connect up....it may even bolt right up in the same spot as your old 2 spool valve....if not a made up bracket would solve any forseen issues....take care Ampa <>

 

[kennyd]

Phil, can you please post picture of your valve, and count the number of hoses connected to it? What are the GPM and PSI specs for your tractor? All this is needed before a particular valve can be recommended.

 

[mpilihp]

Hi Kennyd my first post has a picture of the valve, its a poor one cause its always dark outside now by the time I get home, if you need a better one Ill post one this weekend.

I counted the hoses, there are 10, which of 8 are for the FEL so the other two are feed and return I assume.

I called the dealer (best word for, they dont sell new tractors but resell used and carry parts) for Pasqualis. He could not give me specifics on it but stated when he added them for clients he stated to get valve with a self centering lever and that is open when centered (allow fluid to pass through when not engaging it) and it must have a relief valve (when using valve and ram goes to end fluid will dump back out exit hose)

He said to connect its input to the out port of the existing 2 spool valve assembly and the out port of the new single valve to the return hose to the tank that was taken off of the existing 2 spool valve body.

This sounds in direct contradiction to what ive been reading in threads on this forum, but would be the cheapest, easiest way to do it.

So with that, what is the problem with hooking it up in that manor? What do I risk damaging?

Id be running the plow angle rams so there really wouldnt be alot of pressure on it I wouldnt think.

Thanks

~ Phil

 

[kennyd]

Hi Kennyd my first post has a picture of the valve, its a poor one cause its always dark outside now by the time I get home, if you need a better one Ill post one this weekend.

I counted the hoses, there are 10, which of 8 are for the FEL so the other two are feed and return I assume.

I called the dealer (best word for, they dont sell new tractors but resell used and carry parts) for Pasqualis. He could not give me specifics on it but stated when he added them for clients he stated to get valve with a self centering lever and that is open when centered (allow fluid to pass through when not engaging it) and it must have a relief valve (when using valve and ram goes to end fluid will dump back out exit hose)

He said to connect its input to the out port of the existing 2 spool valve assembly and the out port of the new single valve to the return hose to the tank that was taken off of the existing 2 spool valve body.

This sounds in direct contradiction to what ive been reading in threads on this forum, but would be the cheapest, easiest way to do it.

So with that, what is the problem with hooking it up in that manor? What do I risk damaging?

Id be running the plow angle rams so there really wouldnt be alot of pressure on it I wouldnt think.

Thanks

~ Phil

Need better pictures...10 hoses? It's usually 6 or 7, 4 for the cylinders, 1 FEED or IN, and 1 OUT or T and possibly a PB (power beyond) hose.

OK, I just looked at the picture again...I see that some hoses are stacked on the same port-that explains the 10.

There is more pressure than you think...all the weight from the snow will be trying to collapse the cylinder!

You can hook it up that way in series on the OUT line, it is not recommended but possible if you have no other choices.

 

[mpilihp]

Hi Kenny there is a port with a plug in it that you can see in that picture, dont know what it is, could be the power beyond port but I dont know.

I have see on ebay some 3 spool units for sale, if I knew I could bold up my existing lines to it and add this new one to it Id be willing to go that route too.

Why is plumbing another valve inline not recommended? What could I damage?

Thanks

Phil

 

[kennyd]

That port/plug may very well be for a PB sleeve-but finding the proper one for your valve may be impossible, they are not universal but rather manufacturer specific.

Most valve's are not supposed to see high pressure on the OUT or T ports, when you plumb in a valve downstream, and that valve is activated the the pressure can rise enough in the first valve to cause damage. While it's often talked about here, I have never seen pictures of it. It is always best to use the PB ports whenever possible.

You could add a new PB equipped joystick valve to run the loader, and then use your existing valve as your new "remotes". Kind of the best of both worlds since you would be updating your loader control to a modern joystick style, and you get two extra valves/spools for "free".

Like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=9-7401

 

[J_J]

Hi Kenny there is a port with a plug in it that you can see in that picture, dont know what it is, could be the power beyond port but I dont know.

I have see on ebay some 3 spool units for sale, if I knew I could bold up my existing lines to it and add this new one to it Id be willing to go that route too.

Why is plumbing another valve inline not recommended? What could I damage?

Thanks

Phil

Perhaps I can answer that. Most hyd valves are made with high pressure in. and low pressure out. the tank ports are not built to handle the high pressure that could result from a valve downstream activating and causing the first valve to see high pressure at the tank port. If the port was built to handle 500 psi, and the valve and cyl downstream caused high pressure up to 3000 psi, I think you can see what could happen.

In Ampa's cracked valve, I believe it was caused by high pressure, because the tank port was blocked. The result is the same. So if you can determine the tank port pressure rating, then you can use it if it is the same as the in port. Usually, it is the valve that breaks, as the rest of the hyd system, hoses, cyl, etc, is rated for high pressure.

 

[PILOON]

YOU NEED 2 VALVES TO HAVE
L/R ANGLE
UP DOWN
You have 2 at present.
Up/down and tilt.
To plow you don't need tilt, so-use the tilt circuit for your angle function and replace (seasonally) the 2 tilt cylinders with rods or otherwise 'lock them'.
In fact if they were simply capped, and had a tad of air trapped they would act as shock absorbers.
Now re-route your tilt hoses to activate your angling cylinder (s)

Cooler possibility might be to seasonally relocate one or both tilt cylinders to provide your angle function, however the tilt cyls would be longer than necessary and a bit cumbersome.

Just some food for thought.

 

[kennyd]

You could add a new PB equipped joystick valve to run the loader, and then use your existing valve as your new "remotes". Kind of the best of both worlds since you would be updating your loader control to a modern joystick style, and you get two extra valves/spools for "free".

Like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=9-7401

Quoting myself here...

The more I thought about this option, the more I think it would be to hard to do with your setup. Since the hoses going to the loader cylinders are terminated at the valve with double-stacked banjo fittings and not regular threaded fittings presents a very big problem. Adapting a new valve to those would require new hoses probably, and you'd have to Tee them together on the loader vs. on the valve body. Basically you would be re-plumbing the whole loader and I am sure that is not in the cards-it wouldn't be for me anyway.

Even adding a simple electric or manual diverter valve (that directs flow from the dump/curl to your plow) would be next to imposible because of that hose setup. Your machine has a very unique (read strange:laughing non-standard setup that presents huge challenges to make changes to.

 

[mpilihp]

YOU NEED 2 VALVES TO HAVE
L/R ANGLE
UP DOWN
You have 2 at present.
Up/down and tilt.
To plow you don't need tilt, so-use the tilt circuit for your angle function and replace (seasonally) the 2 tilt cylinders with rods or otherwise 'lock them'.
In fact if they were simply capped, and had a tad of air trapped they would act as shock absorbers.
Now re-route your tilt hoses to activate your angling cylinder (s)

Cooler possibility might be to seasonally relocate one or both tilt cylinders to provide your angle function, however the tilt cyls would be longer than necessary and a bit cumbersome.

Just some food for thought.

Hi thanks is will be my last resort plan as Id like to be able to quickly switch from plow back to bucket and adding having to add/remove links would be extra work. Plus I would like a third control for a hydraulic top link on my 3pt hitch.

 

[DavidNPro]

I have a Pasquali tractor as well, and as eluded to above lets just say they are special in some areas .

I was going to add a similar setup to mine last winter, and had planned on using a new valve before the current one, then having the pb port run into the input of the existing loader valve. I hadnt though through all the details at that time so this setup may have some flaws.

Also, from what I have found my tractor a 993 model has about a 6-8 GPM pump. That is according to everything I could find about it and people I talked to.

In the end, I used a plow and mounted it right to the loader arms. In hindsight that is not the most effecient thing in the world without angle. This year will be using a completely different tractor.

 

[mpilihp]

Quoting myself here...

The more I thought about this option, the more I think it would be to hard to do with your setup. Since the hoses going to the loader cylinders are terminated at the valve with double-stacked banjo fittings and not regular threaded fittings presents a very big problem. Adapting a new valve to those would require new hoses probably, and you'd have to Tee them together on the loader vs. on the valve body. Basically you would be re-plumbing the whole loader and I am sure that is not in the cards-it wouldn't be for me anyway.

Even adding a simple electric or manual diverter valve (that directs flow from the dump/curl to your plow) would be next to imposible because of that hose setup. Your machine has a very unique (read strange:laughing non-standard setup that presents huge challenges to make changes to.

Hi Kenny that is what I was going to ask you next was will my loader lines attach to the new valve, sounds like no. So on normal loader setups it sounds like there are only two lines for the lift rams compared to mine that has 4 correct? How are the rams run in series?

My connections are like this:
Valve1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - Valve 1 return
Valve1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - Valve 1 return

Are you saying normally its:
Valve 1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - right ram in - right ram out - Valve 1 return

How about if I add a single spool valve that has the power beyond port and put it in FRONT of my two spool valve and feed my two spool valve from the new valves power beyond port. Then connect the low press return from the new valve to my two spool valves output and send to the tank. Such as this unit:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7974&catname=hydraulic

I think the connections would be:

Pump-out - in-NEW1Spool-low press out - Tee to tank
NEW1Spool-PowBey - in-existing2SPOOL-out - Tee to tank

Then off of the new 1 spool the connections to my plows rams (has 2) would they be:

1Spool-controlA - in-leftram-out - in-rightram-out - 1Spool-controlB

Or would it be:

1Spool-controlA -Tee- in-leftram-out - Tee- 1Spool-controlB
1Spool-controlA -Tee- in-rightram-out - Tee- 1Spool-controlB

Thanks for the help

~ Phil