Taking home a L4150 for test drive

[phlegm]

This weekend I am loading this onto a trailer and plan on trying it out with implements at home. (the link has pics). You can't make it out in the pictures very well but the loader is a BF900.

Kubota L4150 Tractors | Fargo Tractor West Fargo, ND #ELS855922

Probably the 2 things that make me slightly concerned are the total hours (3660) and the price (but I need to get over that).

From a personal inspection this tractor has had a 'useful' life and at one point the bracket that holds the drawbar to the tractor has had it's holes repaired/fixed (looks like a good repair). The grapple is nice to have but I don't know that I agree with it's "engineering". The hydraulic hoses run all the way to the rear of the tractor and you have to plug them into the only external hydraulic port (is it hard to add another port back there?)

I've read a number of posts on here regarding things to check out
hydraulic shuttle operation
engine smoke and idle quality
Pull the dipsticks and examine oil quality (color/level)
bottom of tractor for oil leaks or shininess or other damage

Serial Number
L4150DT-52006

While I have it home this weekend I'll be getting more pictures of it working with implements.
rear finish and rotary mowers
rototiller
Snowblower (this is why I need that rear hydraulic port)
hole auger
loader mounted bale spear (I have 1100-1200lb round bales that I have to move)

I might hook it up to a back blade and see how well that works as well. I don't own all these implements but luckily I have some good neighbors to borrow from.

The rear tires iare 13.6x28" which I read somewhere are not 'stock' is this of concern? The front tires have some cracking around the lugs, I can't see cords or anything.

Is $11,500 a reasonable price for a machine with this many hours. Assuming that there hasn't been any major repairs (like engine replacement). The missing ROPs, is that something that I should try to 'negotiate' to have added or discount the price? I've never purchased from a dealership before, so is it out of line to ask them to 'service' it (change all fluids) prior to taking ownership?

Thanks,
-ron

 

[art]

You wouldn't need to run the grapple to move snow so the valve could be used for hydraulic rotation on the snow blower.

The tractor looks clean and it may have had some repairs to get it to the 3600 hours but it only shows of use, not miss use!

To look at what a new fifty horsepower tractor sells for it's fits very well. To give an actual life it is hard to do but to see Kubotas still working after double the hours on that one is not unusual without any major work done to them!

 

[brain55]

L4150's are good machines. 3660 hours would not concern me that much, especially if there is no smoke, I have always liked that 5 cylinder engine and it is not unheard of to get 10,000 hours out of them. I would want to see the front differential oil, front end repairs can be a little costly. Adding another factory remote is not that hard of a job, but I have no idea about the parts availability, I would have the dealer check. Even adding another fender mounted remote isn't that big of a deal. I would think that 1200 lb bales would not be problem that loader is rated for nearly 2000 lbs. The ROPS would depend on what kind of terrain you will be operatiing in. That tractor is missing all 3 pieces, there are 2 supports that go under the rear fenders and then the main hoop that bolts through the fenders to the supports. Kubota used to have a ROPS program so the dealers could sell them to customers without them for cost. $11,500 doesn't seem unreasonable to me if everything checks out.

Brian

 

[TripleR]

Might get some good info on this old thread.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/60874-kubota-4150-a.html

 

[phlegm]

I got it loaded up, just idling on the trailer for about 1/2hr there was a little blowby that dripped onto the trailer (about the size of 4 quarters in a row), no smoke from the exhaust. There is some diesel sitting up top of the motor by the injectors, I asked if it was from a recent repair, they did not confirm that.. so I might have a leak to check out. On the bright side the tractor started right up and ran smooth, unfortunately he admitted that he had started it earlier in the day.

Downside of buying it from a dealership is that they service them, the claimed they 'went through the frontend' after they got it, I didn't see any obvious marks left from any repairs. They changed all of the fluids (oil/trans/hydraulic) so I have no history from that. The bottom of the tractor has some scrape marks and some places where you can see oil residue but no obvious leaks. Loader lifts slower then expected, not sure if that is normal or not.

TripleR, thanks for the thread link, I searched the forum yesterday for 4150 threads and had read that one and a couple others (like the one on repairing the Front axle seals).

-ron

 

[_RaT_]

Having an L4850 shuttle shift, I don't have anywhere near that many hours on our 1992 model. The thing about this tractor is that it has probably hours you see on the meter. I suspect yours would have the same Hobbs type meter as mine, that is, it bases the hours on engine RPM rather than actual running hours. This tractor (our L4850)rarely see's PTO RPM's and as a result, an hour of running time is not a 1 to 1 ratio. I have not figured out what it is. Just some food for thought. Does the L4150 use the Everclutch, a clutch bathed in oil?

I got it loaded up, just idling on the trailer for about 1/2hr there was a little blowby that dripped onto the trailer (about the size of 4 quarters in a row), no smoke from the exhaust. There is some diesel sitting up top of the motor by the injectors, I asked if it was from a recent repair, they did not confirm that.. so I might have a leak to check out. On the bright side the tractor started right up and ran smooth, unfortunately he admitted that he had started it earlier in the day.

Downside of buying it from a dealership is that they service them, the claimed they 'went through the frontend' after they got it, I didn't see any obvious marks left from any repairs. They changed all of the fluids (oil/trans/hydraulic) so I have no history from that. The bottom of the tractor has some scrape marks and some places where you can see oil residue but no obvious leaks. Loader lifts slower then expected, not sure if that is normal or not.

TripleR, thanks for the thread link, I searched the forum yesterday for 4150 threads and had read that one and a couple others (like the one on repairing the Front axle seals).

-ron

 

[RFB]

RaT,

How does RPM vs actual hours relate regarding engine wear (Hobbs vs straight hours).

Is there (theoretical) less wear when not operate at PTO speed?

(Interested since I am hardly ever at PTO speed.)

 

[_RaT_]

I suspect it does a very good job of giving a truer picture of engine wear, after all, its how airplane engines hours are determined, not by hours of the engine being on, but the engine time on with a variable for the engine speed. I would think you are at about a 1 to 1 ratio at PTO speed but I don't know this for sure. On the other hand, the tires, drive train, the loader etc may have more hours on them then is actually indicated on a Hobbs type hour meter.

RaT,

How does RPM vs actual hours relate regarding engine wear (Hobbs vs straight hours).

Is there (theoretical) less wear when not operate at PTO speed?

(Interested since I am hardly ever at PTO speed.)

 

[phlegm]

Regarding this while engine running vs engine with a load, I'd prefer that if the engine is rotating that the hour meter is running. Idling is still putting wear on a motor, some would contend more wear due to reduced oil pressure.

Now, on to the story of the test drive.

I had it home all weekend long. I hooked up the snowblower (8ft McKee) and blew some leaves with it (no snow yet..). I went to the haypile and grabbed a round bale from the top of the stack (height = good, lift capacity = good). Put the bale back and unhooked the snowblower and headed to the neighbors house where I borrowed his rototiller (8ft Buhler, a tad too large for this tractor for continuous operation) it worked fantastic, however the tractor ran hot the whole time. Temp needle barely below the line between 'normal' and 'hot'. No indicator lights ever came on, it was around 82f that day and I rototilled about 1.5miles of shelter belt and the riding arena.

In the riding arena I hit a soft spot while turning and rototilling, started spinning a tire. Used the interlocker.. spun both tires.. shifted into 4wd and pulled right out of that hole.. then I lifted the rototiller, I just wanted to have a reason to engage all the goodies.

4hrs later, done with rototilling I took it back to the neighbors house.. and this is the slightly concerning part.

The engine speed stayed the same (7th gear just above idle) but the tractor came to a stop. I checked the shifter, the high/low range selecter, the hydraulic shuttle and it wasn't any of those, it just lost all hydraulic pressure. No loader, no hydraulic shuttle, no 3pt. It didn't matter which engine RPM I ran it would not move. I went back to the house and did some quick 'googling' and it sounds like it could be one of 3 things.
1. air pocket
2. foreign material blocking the oil intake for the hydraulic system
3. bad pump

After about an hour and a half I went back over with a pair of vice grips and a drain pan, spun the hydraulic filter until it was lose, lots of fluid came out so I spun it back on. I fired it up and guess what! It still didn't move or raise the loader.. so I slowly idled up the motor to 1500RPM and still no hydraulic movement.. so I opened it all they way up (I was in gear with the shuttle set to move forward) and she took off all the sudden!! max speed in 1st gear (a whopping 1.1mph at full boogie according to web information)

I unhooked the rototiller and headed home. I hooked up the hole auger and went back to work putting in a fence, worked great, temps stayed down, mosquitos ate the heck out of me.

I took it back to the dealership this morning, the salesman and I need to start figuring out his 'best price' and Wednesday he's coming out to look at my 856 and make a trade in value price.

-ron

 

[_RaT_]

A Hobbs meter still records idling time, just not as much time as you would say at PTO RPM. My oil pressure changes little from idle to full RPM. If yours is, you either have considerable wear on bearings or the oil pump itself. The Hobbs is how airplane motors are figured, I'm comfortable with that. On the other hand, all new tractors that I am aware of use time for time meters. Not a deal breaker in any way for me. If I were buying a used newer tractor, I would prefer one that was used at say 1700 RPM on average as opposed to one used at 2500 RPM, even if the one with 2500 RPM developed slightly higher oil pressure. My L4850 has never had the issues your experiencing. My guess is that the L4150 your looking at has way more than the 3XXX hours on it in terms of actual on time.

 

[phlegm]

I can't say that I've ever owned a piece of equipment that had the same oil pressure at idle as it does at say.. 2500rpm. FWIW, this tractor does not have an oil pressure gauge on it just an 'idiot' light and it never came on I have not performed any actual oil pressure tests, all previous statements about oil pressure were from past experience with automobiles and older tractors.

I think I get that hobbs meter issue now.. I was confused by the PTO hour statement. I thought you were saying only when the PTO was engaged but you mean 'actual revolutions' of the motor..
1hr is 1hr
1hr @ 1500 rpms is ( 90,000 revolutions)
1hr @ 2500 rpms is (150,000 revolutions)
1hr @ 3000 rpms is (180,000 revolutions)

So at my house comparisons would be my lawnmower and my IH856
The mower has a 12v "hour meter" that only monitors how many hours the key has been left on (not even that the engine was running). The tractor by comparison has a tachometer cable that screws into the motor and records actual revolutions and translates those into hours on the hour meter (mechanically).

after seeing the light, I agree hobbs wins!

Regarding the hours on the tractor and the temperature. At this time it is not concerning. Under 'normal' use like dragging the pasture, moving heavy stuff, augering holes the gauge never went above halfway. The overflow tank did not have any significant level increas/decrease and the radiator is full to the top (which doesn't rule out a head gasket or head problem but significantly reduced the likelyhood)

Before I would get concerned I'd go through some basic maintenance steps
1. change thermostat
2. pressure wash external passages on radiator
3. have the radiator 'rodded'

Also on the topic of cooling there is evidence that this tractor suffered catastrophic waterpump failure (white residue all over the right wide of the front axle) and a new waterpump. The thermostat has also been replaced and there is tons of silicone squished out the side but it looks like an older repair than the waterpump (which looks clean and a different color of silicone). If I had to guess, they were probably getting cavitation at the waterpump as a bearing was going bad and the owner replaced he thermostat to control the temperatures, then the waterpump went south.. and now there could be 'foreign' material in the cooling system. But that's all speculation.

I also speculate that the previous owner (PO) traded it in because the hydraulic pump is getting weak. When cold it will lift both the 3pt (with implement) and the loader without any problem. However once it gets to operating temperature you must have the engine running 1500rpms or more to use the loader.. Below 1500 it will not lift the loader or the 3pt. The PO used this tractor heavily for it's loader capacity, he added teeth to the bucket and fabricated a grapple, the salesman said that the PO was a farmer.

-ron

 

[OkieDave]

I can't speak with authority on tractors, but I can say that a Hobbs meter in an airplane is 1 hour = 1 hour, regardless of engine speed. If the hour depends on engine speed, it's a tach meter (tach hours), not a Hobbs meter.

Like I said, I don't know if tractors are different, but that's my experience with airplanes (and I'm a flight instructor).

 

[rjkobbeman]

I can't speak with authority on tractors, but I can say that a Hobbs meter in an airplane is 1 hour = 1 hour, regardless of engine speed. If the hour depends on engine speed, it's a tach meter (tach hours), not a Hobbs meter.

Like I said, I don't know if tractors are different, but that's my experience with airplanes (and I'm a flight instructor).

Good explanation. Also, welcome to TBN.

This thread caused me to search and read this: Hobbs meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I learn something new every day...

Seems some are confusing the term with the implementation.

 

[_RaT_]

Thanks for clarifying that Dave, I had it stuck in my head perhaps from back when I was taking flying lessons. My flight lessons were after work so all my landings were night landings. So a Hobbs is basically an hour meter.

I can't speak with authority on tractors, but I can say that a Hobbs meter in an airplane is 1 hour = 1 hour, regardless of engine speed. If the hour depends on engine speed, it's a tach meter (tach hours), not a Hobbs meter.

Like I said, I don't know if tractors are different, but that's my experience with airplanes (and I'm a flight instructor).

 

[Seattle Steve]

Ron,

I have a L3750 which is the next smaller version of the L4150. These are part of three models (L3350, L3750 and L4150) that were the beginning of the L3 series that some have called "near industrial" in design and build quality. They were often used in rental yards because they hold up very well. You can find many threads on these if you search this forum. They are relatively heavy and have remarkable capability for their size. I love mine!

The hydraulic shuttle on the tractor you're looking at requires hydraulic pressure to maintain clutch holding power. Because of this, when left in gear and the engine is turned off, it will roll unless you set the parking brake or anchor it by dropping the loader bucket or an implement. Back to the issue you had, I seem to recall seeing a couple of posts here about the L4150 having an oil pickup tube placement issue where it is overly sensitive to oil level. You should check the oil level on the side of the transmission case and then search for those posts to get the details on the issue. I seem to recall that once the owners got used to managing the oil level, they had no issues, but please check for yourself and don't rely on my memory.

As for the speed of the hydraulics, some of these models had a second pump mounted in front of the radiator and some don't (mine doesn't). Without it, the loader will be much slower, but just as strong. I'm guessing that the one you're looking at probably does not have the front pump.

These models had a factory option of a single or dual rear remote. These remotes, along with all the 'options' are no longer in production unless you get lucky and find them on the shelf somewhere (Kubota has no nationwide parts search). I've looked around and had no luck finding any. You can add hydraulic remote capacity to this open center system easily though using aftermarket parts. There are many threads on this site about that as well. Other than the 'options', parts are readily available.

On operating temperature, you're on the right track. If it comes to it, replacement radiators are available.

One common issue is oil leaks from the front axle at the hubs. These can be repaired by a do-it-yourselfer and the process is well documented in a thread on this site including details on an updated seal. This should not be an issue for you since the dealer went through the axle, however it is good to know. On repairs, there are few major repairs for these models documented on this site because they are typically very reliable.

By the way, the L4150 is factory rated for only up to a 70" rotary tiller so the 96" one you successfully ran speaks to the capability I mentioned earlier.

If you can't tell, I'm a big fan of this website due to the knowledgeable and helpful folks here. It is time I paid some of that back and I hope this helps you.

Good luck!!

 

[art]

The hour meters on the L-4150 work the same as on your 856 tractor. We have found them to be short about 1/3 the hours of a normal hour per hour meter that most major companies are using now.

 

[phlegm]

Thanks for the responses.. I'll have to look for that oil level check location on the side of the transmission. The only one I saw was a dipstick in the middle of the platform. I've seen a couple l4150's for sale for 'parts', I wonder how hard it would be to locate a secondary hydraulic pump and external hydraulic control? From the factory do these tractors have a single hydraulic pump for everything? That is how it seems to me but others have said they have multiple.

Good to know about the rating (70" vs 96") did that come from the manufacturers information or is that more of a general rule for tractors of this size? The main reason I used the 8ft rototiller was because that is what the neighbor had to loan me. When it comes time for me to buy my own I'll get something smaller like a 5 or 6ft unit. One of the main reasons I wanted to use the larger tiller was that currently I have an 8ft McKee dual stage/dual auger snow blower. The snow we get here is extremely dry and fluffy none of that wet soggy stuff from other parts of the country, I figure any tractor that can use an 8ft snowblower in 80f degree weather will be just fine using an 8ft snow blower at -25f for 30 minutes..


And that last statement about the hour meter being off 1/3rd hour is interesting.. I read that to mean if the tractor reads 1000hrs it really should be showing 1300? (or in this case it shows 3660 and you are saying it should be showing 4990)

It doesn't really matter anyhow (hours) because the motor runs strong and does not smoke blue (just black when it is working hard)

I'll have to find the dimensions for this tractor (how narrow can I make it), I've got an area that is 60" wide and I'd like to be able to use this tractor for rototilling in there if possible. Currently the neighbor has been taking care of it for me with a New Holland (AWD/Loader/SCUT) and a 48" rototiller.

Thanks,
-ron

 

[Seattle Steve]

Ron,

My oil level location comment above is a brain fart on my part. My former tractor had an indicator on the side, my L3750 has a dipstick in the top of the transmision between your legs where you sit as an operator.

The tiller spec I mentioned is from Kubota. See the attached for more info. You'll find dimensions there as well and I think 67" is as narrow as you can go.

By the way, I run a 60" Howard HR-30 that weighs over a thousand pounds and it tills like a dream. My L3750 runs it with no problem.

Happy shopping!

View attachment Kubota L3350-L3750-L4150 Specs and Dims.pdf

View attachment Kubota L3350-L3750-L4150 Implement Limitations.pdf

 

[brain55]

The hourmeter is calibrated for 540 PTO speed. So if the 540 PTO speed is 2400 RPM and you run the tractor at that RPM for an hour the hourmeter will read one hour. If you run the tractor at 1200 RPM it will read half an hour and so on. The thinking behind this is that at lower RPMs there is less load and less wear, at higher RPMs you are likely working the machine harder thus more wear.

Brian

 

[nightowl490]

L4150DT owner just checking in. I purchased this tractor with 1700 hours on it, full fluid check and new filters all around. I now have almost 1900 hours on it and have nothing new to report. Last winter I rebuilt the right bevel gear housing. THE REASON FOR MY EVEN POSTING THIS....

Get the workshop manual. It will become an integral part of your ownership. Not that it breaks, but working on them is just part of it. Hope to read more on your future.

FYI, last winter I also pulled out radiator, boiled and painted, really made a big difference on cooling. You won't be disappointed. One pump hydraulics, nearly bulletproof.

Good Luck