Alternate source for hydraulic top links?

[picker77]

Today I ran across another web vendor who appears to handle HTL's, but have never seen them mentioned in the numerous HTL threads. These are the only ones I've seen outside of CCM that also come with the "miniature" size DPOCV installed. Doesn't appear that they do sidelinks, but they so sell Cat 1, 2, and 3 HTL's. A few dollars more than CCM, but free ship on orders over $50 and the 2" cyl has a 4-year warranty.

Can anyone here who has bought a cylinder and hose kit from these folks comment on your satisfaction with them?

AGRISTORE USA

 

[kennyd]

Surplus Center has the same TL's that CCM sell's, that's where I got mine form.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=&byKeyword=yes&search=9-7682

 

[picker77]

By Golly, Kenny. You're right-as usual. They are exactly the same. I do like Agristore's hose kit, though. Might get my TL and two sets of hoses from them (free shipping will take care of shipping the hoses too), and see if I can get the sidelink cylinder itself from CCM later, assuming they get started making them again this fall. In the meantime I'll still have the top link installed and working.

 

[picker77]

Now that I have my new dual rear remotes, I ordered my HTL with DPOCV and hoses today from Agristore USA. Must have caught them just before the UPS guy showed up, because within an hour of the order I had a UPS tracking number and notification they were on the way. This one comes with 3/8" hoses, if it's too "quick" I'll convert to 1/4" and try that. I'll post photos after install.

I intend to build my own hydraulic side link setup. I plan to use a 2x6x1.25 ball end cylinder from Surplus Center, cut the rod end off, and weld on the clevis from the non-adjustable OEM side link. No welding will be required on the cylinder body itself, something I wanted to avoid if possible. Total available travel on my OEM adjustable link is 4", but I'm going with a 6" stroke cyl to have a bit of leeway each direction. Hope I don't regret that. I'll move the OEM adjustable link over to the left side. The ball end on the new cylinder will be 1" instead of 3/4", but I should be able to cure that with a bushing. I won't have DPOCV on the new side link to start with, but later if I think it's needed I can get a local hydraulics shop to install one. Small form factor DPOCV's are available, but the ones I've seen are expensive at $70-$80 each. Here again, I'll post photos if I ever finish this little project.

 

[magicheater]

When I did my Hydraulic top link I got one similar to this and beefed up the tractor end of the mount to accommodate it. 10 years later I have no failures and no complaints. It requires some modifications to equipment but for me well worth the investment due to the increased lift capacity. I regularly heel full trees when I have the grapple/winch on.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Now that I have my new dual rear remotes, I ordered my HTL with DPOCV and hoses today from Agristore USA. Must have caught them just before the UPS guy showed up, because within an hour of the order I had a UPS tracking number and notification they were on the way. This one comes with 3/8" hoses, if it's too "quick" I'll convert to 1/4" and try that. I'll post photos after install.

I intend to build my own hydraulic side link setup. I plan to use a 2x6x1.25 ball end cylinder from Surplus Center, cut the rod end off, and weld on the clevis from the non-adjustable OEM side link. No welding will be required on the cylinder body itself, something I wanted to avoid if possible. Total available travel on my OEM adjustable link is 4", but I'm going with a 6" stroke cyl to have a bit of leeway each direction. Hope I don't regret that. I'll move the OEM adjustable link over to the left side. The ball end on the new cylinder will be 1" instead of 3/4", but I should be able to cure that with a bushing. I won't have DPOCV on the new side link to start with, but later if I think it's needed I can get a local hydraulics shop to install one. Small form factor DPOCV's are available, but the ones I've seen are expensive at $70-$80 each. Here again, I'll post photos if I ever finish this little project.

Picker, be sure that the cylinder from Surplus Center will not bind up on the hydraulic tube housing just below where it fastens to the 3pt lift rod. I'm thinking that you need 2 1/2" from center of the rod to the top of the hydraulic cylinder to clear everything. Not sure that their cylinder has that much distance.

Double check.

 

[picker77]

Picker, be sure that the cylinder from Surplus Center will not bind up on the hydraulic tube housing just below where it fastens to the 3pt lift rod. I'm thinking that you need 2 1/2" from center of the rod to the top of the hydraulic cylinder to clear everything. Not sure that their cylinder has that much distance.

Double check.

MVR, may I assume you're talking about possible interference between the top of the cylinder and the lift arm when the lift arm is raised all the way up, as in the yellow-circled area in the attached photo?

If so, you are correct, it will be very, very close. Might even have to resort to grinding out a small half-moon from the lift arm at the touch point, although I don't like the idea of grinding ANY metal from the lift arm. Also, I might be able to gain a tad by grinding off 1/8" or so from the outside edge of the ball itself (where it rests against the linch pin), and adding a washer on the inside surface of the ball end to force the ball to ride outboard a little further than usual on the pin. It may also help that this cylinder comes with Cat 2 ball ends, which in addition to being 1" bore are also quite a bit larger in diameter than Cat 1 ball ends. If I do this I'm going to have to add a 3/4" bushing inside the 1" ball end anyway, and that gives me an additional 1/8" clearance in the critical area.

It also helps that this is a rather skinny cylinder at 2-3/8" OD, which is actually smaller than the 2-3/4" outside diameter of the Cat 2 ball end.

I'll jump through a few hoops, though, to avoid welding on that cylinder. That will be my last resort. I had another brilliant idea earlier about buying a clevis cylinder and welding a Cat 1 ball to the end of the upper clevis, which would avoid having to weld on the cylinder itself and give the ball a couple of inches of standoff distance. But if I did that, I'd have to go to a 4" vice 6" cylinder, I think, to avoid having the retracted length too long. Still thinking about that one. I could cobble up something (like fill in the clevis end with a chunk of steel and weld a Cat 1 ball to that), but it would begin to get ugly.

For reference, also attached is a dimensioned drawing of the cylinder in question.

===================
Went back and re-read this this AM to make sure I was coherent late last night, lol. Thought of one other thing I could do to gain extra clearance: replace that right hand upper lift arm mounting pin with one that's 1/2" longer. That would let me ease the ball a little further outboard from its current position, and that mounting pin is nothing more than a standard 3/4" bolt-on hitch pin with a linchpin hole in the end of it. They are commonly available in several lengths.

And thanks for all the sanity checks as I run these things up the flagpole. I'd rather see pitfalls now than after I've hacked up a new $115 cylinder!

 

[picker77]

When I did my Hydraulic top link I got one similar to this and beefed up the tractor end of the mount to accommodate it. 10 years later I have no failures and no complaints. It requires some modifications to equipment but for me well worth the investment due to the increased lift capacity. I regularly heel full trees when I have the grapple/winch on.

Magicheater, talk about overkill, that is a BEAST of a cylinder. I was mystified how they could sell them for $49 when all the other 4" welded cylinders are $300-$400 each, but then I noticed they have nearly a thousand of them in stock, so they likely bought a boxcar load for pennies on the dollar. I'd probably have to add half a gallon of hydraulic fluid after installing one of those things. With a 2-1/4" rod there would certainly be no bending problems (at least not at the cylinder--I might break off the back half of my tractor instead!), but at nearly 5" in diameter a pair of those things as side links might look a little goofy on my little tractor. :laughing:

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MVR, may I assume you're talking about possible interference between the top of the cylinder and the lift arm when the lift arm is raised all the way up, as in the yellow-circled area in the attached photo?

If so, you are correct, it will be very, very close. Might even have to resort to grinding out a small half-moon from the lift arm at the touch point, although I don't like the idea of grinding ANY metal from the lift arm. Also, I might be able to gain a tad by grinding off 1/8" or so from the outside edge of the ball itself (where it rests against the linch pin), and adding a washer on the inside surface of the ball end to force the ball to ride outboard a little further than usual on the pin. It may also help that this cylinder comes with Cat 2 ball ends, which in addition to being 1" bore are also quite a bit larger in diameter than Cat 1 ball ends. If I do this I'm going to have to add a 3/4" bushing inside the 1" ball end anyway, and that gives me an additional 1/8" clearance in the critical area.

It also helps that this is a rather skinny cylinder at 2-3/8" OD, which is actually smaller than the 2-3/4" outside diameter of the Cat 2 ball end.

I'll jump through a few hoops, though, to avoid welding on that cylinder. That will be my last resort. I had another brilliant idea earlier about buying a clevis cylinder and welding a Cat 1 ball to the end of the upper clevis, which would avoid having to weld on the cylinder itself and give the ball a couple of inches of standoff distance. But if I did that, I'd have to go to a 4" vice 6" cylinder, I think, to avoid having the retracted length too long. Still thinking about that one. I could cobble up something (like fill in the clevis end with a chunk of steel and weld a Cat 1 ball to that), but it would begin to get ugly.

For reference, also attached is a dimensioned drawing of the cylinder in question.

===================
Went back and re-read this this AM to make sure I was coherent late last night, lol. Thought of one other thing I could do to gain extra clearance: replace that right hand upper lift arm mounting pin with one that's 1/2" longer. That would let me ease the ball a little further outboard from its current position, and that mounting pin is nothing more than a standard 3/4" bolt-on hitch pin with a linchpin hole in the end of it. They are commonly available in several lengths.

And thanks for all the sanity checks as I run these things up the flagpole. I'd rather see pitfalls now than after I've hacked up a new $115 cylinder!

Yes. The 1 3/8" dimension is a problem I think. I believe that you need about 2 1/2" at that location. The longer bolt to get the hydraulic out away from the lift arm will probably work, but remember that you will then be changing the leverage and that might be a potential problem.

All stuff to ponder. I have got to get out and get some work done.

 

[picker77]

Yay. New Agristore USA hydraulic top link is installed, works great, life is good. No more busted knuckles when hooking up or climbing on and off the tractor to make adjustment when box blading. The control feathers really smooth and easy, no need for any restrictors for these 3/8" hoses.

Now to do the side link, if the cylinder I ordered ever gets here.

 

[/pine]

@picker...

just curious...do your hoses clear everythng when the lift is all the way up? I had to rotate the cylinder a little to prevent jamming the hoses...?

 

[picker77]

Yes, they clear fine. There is about 1-1/2" clearance between the bend in the 90 deg hose and the SMV sign at full up. However, to get that clearance I did have to remove the original S-shaped top link storage bracket. Even that wouldn't have been necessary if I had used two banjo fittings instead of one banjo and one 90 degree at the DPOCV. But I didn't need the OEM storage bracket anyway anymore, so I just took it off.

The side link will be a bit trickier for clearance in the max up position, but I think I have that figured out. Now I'm just waiting on the new side link cylinder to arrive from Surplus Center.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Yes, they clear fine. There is about 1-1/2" clearance between the bend in the 90 deg hose and the SMV sign at full up. However, to get that clearance I did have to remove the original S-shaped top link storage bracket. Even that wouldn't have been necessary if I had used two banjo fittings instead of one banjo and one 90 degree at the DPOCV. But I didn't need the OEM storage bracket anyway anymore, so I just took it off.

The side link will be a bit trickier for clearance in the max up position, but I think I have that figured out. Now I'm just waiting on the new side link cylinder to arrive from Surplus Center.

Just curious, why do you feel that you no longer need the OEM top link holder? Have you come up with some other type of bracket?

 

[picker77]

Just curious, why do you feel that you no longer need the OEM top link holder? Have you come up with some other type of bracket?

Hi MVR,
I just never used it. I keep my box blade on the tractor 99.9% of the time, even when I'm doing other stuff with the FEL or forks--along with loaded tires, it's part of my basic counterweight setup. Never saw the sense of carrying around a weight box, makes more sense to me to leave something on there I use all the time anyway. If the box blade isn't hanging back there (a very rare occurrence, like when I'm taking the tractor to the dealer for service or something), then I just leave the lower link arms in the full up position and let the top link rest on a heavy rubber tie-down strap I keep hooked between the lower link arms. I'll save the bracket in pristine condition for the next guy. It's only a three minute job to remove or reinstall it, just two 18mm bolts under the flip-up seat.

Speaking of which, this 3032E is the only wheeled vehicle I've ever worked on that used 18mm bolt heads, and there are several on it. I've seen a ton of 17mm and 19mm's on everything from cars to motorcycles over the years, but 18mm was a new one to me. I had to go buy 3/8 and 1/2 drive 18mm sockets just for this tractor. Maybe other brands use 18mm too, but it was just the first time I've run into them, and there were none on my previous tractor, a Kubota. Maybe John Deere got a good deal on a boxcar load of them.

 

[kennyd]

Just curious, why do you feel that you no longer need the OEM top link holder? Have you come up with some other type of bracket?

I took mine off because I have my iMatch QH mounted all the time.

 

[picker77]

I'm guess I'm sort of the opposite extreme from kennyd and his iMatch. He uses his 3ph for a wide variety of things, so he changes rear attachments often, where I almost never do. So quick hitches and top link holders aren't much use to me. Since I got a large ZTR several year ago, maybe twice a year I hang a brush hog or a middle buster on for a day or two, the rest of the time the box blade lives on there. I'm even thinking about converting my 3ph lift boom to fit the JDQA on the FEL one of these days.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Hi MVR,
I just never used it. I keep my box blade on the tractor 99.9% of the time, even when I'm doing other stuff with the FEL or forks--along with loaded tires, it's part of my basic counterweight setup. Never saw the sense of carrying around a weight box, makes more sense to me to leave something on there I use all the time anyway. If the box blade isn't hanging back there (a very rare occurrence, like when I'm taking the tractor to the dealer for service or something), then I just leave the lower link arms in the full up position and let the top link rest on a heavy rubber tie-down strap I keep hooked between the lower link arms. I'll save the bracket in pristine condition for the next guy. It's only a three minute job to remove or reinstall it, just two 18mm bolts under the flip-up seat.

Ok, makes sense, I change the rear implements all the time and would hate having the top link just hang there between changes.

 

[skipmarcy]

A simple piece of lightweight chain with a small hook on one end is all you need. I slip my chain thru the metal hydraulic line on top of my cylinder and it holds it up just dandy. I too keep my boxblade on the hitch when not using another implement - might as well have a tool back there instead of dead weight (weight box). My lower hitch arms each have a tit of metal on top that you stretch a bungee across when no implement is onboard - keeps the arms from swaying into the tire lugs. I still have the bungee that came with my tractor for this. I've been told my hydraulic toplink assembly is pretty ugly - I agree, but it was pretty darn inexpensive compared to what I've seen for sale and has worked fantastic for about 6 years now - it is extremely stout and works great and is exactly the length I needed for my particular tractor - that was the biggest factor in making my own, couldn't find the right length for the ranges I wanted. I bought this cylinder from Surplus Center, cut the clevis ends off and cut the rod to the exact length I wanted and welded the swivel ball ends on. The square unit on the side is a Prince DPOCV - it cost more than the cylinder and ball ends !! I wanted the check valves though, I set it and forget it. Would have been nice to get the small, compact check valves but I couldn't find any at the time so I got what I got.

 

[picker77]

Shoot, Skip, that HTL setup looks fine to me. The important thing is it works. I like the overall compactness and short hoses, makes for a neat install. I wish my rear remote QC location would allow me to use really short hoses like that, I had to use 36" on mine.

 

[picker77]

Top 'n Tilt Finished! Well, almost. I might swap the cylinder end of the two hoses on the toplink cylinder, or maybe change that tall 90 degree to a banjo fitting. It's just tall enough to scrape the middle of the SMV sign at full up and full tilt. I wouldn't have that problem if I didn't have to keep the seat slid back all the way all the time. I could just try to remember never to pull the top link all the way closed, but since I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning I know how that would work.

Now I have to try it out on my gravel lane and get the left side link adjusted to a happy medium for the way I use it. I tried to make the the overall length of the 6" sidelink cylinder so that I'd have more tilt right than left (welded the clevis at 4" stroke instead of halfway at 3"). I have plenty of tilt, the only question left is will I need to add a DPOCV on the side link too, but I'd rather not.

Both cylinders feather just fine, but require a gentle hand on the controls to keep things slow, especially the smaller sidelink cylinder. A heavy hand will snatch that 400# box blade around like it was made of balsa wood.

After all my previous worrying about welding on the cylinder (I only had to weld on the rod end) that turned out to be a non-event. I extended the rod all the way and wrapped a wet rag around it, and it never even got warm to the touch near the cylinder during the welding process.

One question about banjo fittings... can they be removed and reused (as in swapping the hoses above) without changing to new copper rings, or is that a no-no?