EPA wants to regulate farm dust

[MicroPilot]

Federal court upholds EPA's rural dust rule - NYTimes.com

Anyone know anything more about this? I tried Googling but could only really find similar news articles to the one linked here.

 

[ShenandoahJoe]

The actual decision says,

Because the agency promulgated standards for fine particulate matter that were, in several respects, contrary to law and unsupported by adequately reasoned decisionmaking, we grant the petitions for review in part and remand those standards to the agency for further proceedings. We deny the petitions for review of the agency standards for coarse particulate matter because those standards are not arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise contrary to law.

So the Court says the rules for fine particles, basically smoke, aren't good enough. The rules for coarser particles, which we kick up behind our tractors, are OK. Here's the proposed rule; the critical part, as I see it, is

The proposed standard would exclude any ambient mix of PM10-2.5 where the majority of coarse particles are rural windblown dust and soils and PM generated by agricultural and mining sources. Evidence to date does not support a national air quality standard for these kinds of situations.

As I understand the current situation, the explicit reference to agricultural and mining operations is gone, but the rest remains. There's a lot of bad information out there on the Web, that's for sure. I'm not planning to worry about it, until the EPA comes up with a way to mandate rainfall.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on this stuff. When the experts get done, then they tell me what they want, and I can get to work.

 

[Brimstone10x]

DEFUND THE EPA !!

 

[schmism]

DEFUND THE EPA !!

ummmmmmmm i Kinda like my drinking water drinkable :confused2:

 

[rswyan]

ummmmmmmm i Kinda like my drinking water drinkable :confused2:

Yes ....... two words:

Love Canal

.... jus' sayin' ....

 

[forgeblast]

wonder if people will go back to spreading oil on the road to keep the dust down? (scarcasm button engage).

 

[jbooth]

Lord knows we need environment protection, but they seem to delight in going after the little guys that don't have the organized battalions of lawyers like the corporations. Some time back they tried to make a rule here in KS. that the cattle could no longer swim in the ponds. Seems the ornery critters were going to the bathroom in the ponds. Wanted to fence the ponds and put a tank below the dams. Never did figure how it was better for the cow poo to get into the water shed from the pond than from behind the pond. Everybody offered to put up no swimming signs but that plan was scrapped as it was decided it would be to expensive to teach the cattle to read.

For you Texas guys; Our earthern stuctures in KS. are ponds, those galvanized round deals are tanks.

 

[Chuck52]

wonder if people will go back to spreading oil on the road to keep the dust down? (scarcasm button engage).

Could happen. Don't worry about the water, however, just drink Brawndo!

Chuck

 

[clemsonfor]

wonder if people will go back to spreading oil on the road to keep the dust down? (scarcasm button engage).

Some places the county still does this.

 

[clemsonfor]

Lord knows we need environment protection, but they seem to delight in going after the little guys that don't have the organized battalions of lawyers like the corporations. Some time back they tried to make a rule here in KS. that the cattle could no longer swim in the ponds. Seems the ornery critters were going to the bathroom in the ponds. Wanted to fence the ponds and put a tank below the dams. Never did figure how it was better for the cow poo to get into the water shed from the pond than from behind the pond. Everybody offered to put up no swimming signs but that plan was scrapped as it was decided it would be to expensive to teach the cattle to read.

For you Texas guys; Our earthern stuctures in KS. are ponds, those galvanized round deals are tanks.

Or how its any different for the cow to poop on the new fence line and it rain that day and carry all the nasties into the water anyhow? :confused2:

 

[jinman]

The thread title is like an old Red Foxx story:

EPA wants to regulate farm dust
EPA wants to regulate farm
EPA wants to regulate
EPA wants to
EPA wants
EPAaaaaa!

Okay, that's a cheap shot, but. . . just saying.

I used to have a girlfriend who worked in HR for the EPA. She convinced me that most of the EPA activity is lawyers trying to justify their own pay raises. I know we need environmental protection, but I think we are paying a high price for what we are getting in return from the EPA.

 

[sweettractors]

The thread title is like an old Red Foxx story:

EPA wants to regulate farm dust
EPA wants to regulate farm
EPA wants to regulate
EPA wants to
EPA wants
EPAaaaaa!

Okay, that's a cheap shot, but. . . just saying.

I used to have a girlfriend who worked in HR for the EPA. She convinced me that most of the EPA activity is lawyers trying to justify their own pay raises. I know we need environmental protection, but I think we are paying a high price for what we are getting in return from the EPA.

I don't even drink, however, I will drink to that. :drink: Ken Sweet

 

[jinjimbob]

I sometimes like the breath too, that pesky EPA!

 

[captaincrab55]

wonder if people will go back to spreading oil on the road to keep the dust down? (scarcasm button engage).

Back in the mid 60s to early 70s, truck loads of oil contaminated with PCBs from the local power company's transformers were sprayed on many car junk yards to keep dust down and kill vegetation... That took place in Baltimore City and the surrounding Counties... I think the EPA was sleeping back then..

 

[impdaddy]

EPA wasn't created until about 1985 when the river flowing through Ohio (can't remember the name think it was the Catahoochie River) caught fire and was on tv. Since then the EPA has promulgated many many many rules that weren't authorized by any law but still were done. Sure some of it helps the water and air,, but a lot goes to job justification. Did you hear about the petition recently submitted to the EPA by 'The Center For Biological Diversity' yes it is a real organization. The petition is to ban lead ammunition and lead weights and sinkers for fishing. This goes beyond the steel shot rule for waterfowl. Latest news is that the ammo ban was dismissed but the fishing ban is going forward. That should divert attention from the dust rule for farmers.

 

[sweettractors]

EPA wasn't created until about 1985 when the river flowing through Ohio (can't remember the name think it was the Catahoochie River) caught fire and was on tv. Since then the EPA has promulgated many many many rules that weren't authorized by any law but still were done. Sure some of it helps the water and air,, but a lot goes to job justification. Did you hear about the petition recently submitted to the EPA by 'The Center For Biological Diversity' yes it is a real organization. The petition is to ban lead ammunition and lead weights and sinkers for fishing. This goes beyond the steel shot rule for waterfowl. Latest news is that the ammo ban was dismissed but the fishing ban is going forward. That should divert attention from the dust rule for farmers.

All Government agencies think of "Make work" projects for job security. They can never have the public 100% compliant on regs. If they ever did, there would be no need for the employees or agency to exist. Ken Sweet

 

[MikeD74T]

....The petition is to ban lead ammunition and lead weights and sinkers for fishing. This goes beyond the steel shot rule for waterfowl. Latest news is that the ammo ban was dismissed but the fishing ban is going forward. That should divert attention from the dust rule for farmers.

N.H. banned lead sinkers under 1oz or less than 1" in length on Jan 1, 2000. No negative impact noted after the ban took effect, lots of fishermen still fishing.

I suspect the EPA isn't looking to control every speck of dust, but just the dust that leaves the owners property. Whether from a small farm, agro business, or huge mining/gravel operation dust can have a negative impact and should be regulated according to actual impact - no source should be exempt just because of politics. MikeD74T

 

[jbooth]

N.H. banned lead sinkers under 1oz or less than 1" in length on Jan 1, 2000. No negative impact noted after the ban took effect, lots of fishermen still fishing.

I suspect the EPA isn't looking to control every speck of dust, but just the dust that leaves the owners property. Whether from a small farm, agro business, or huge mining/gravel operation dust can have a negative impact and should be regulated according to actual impact - no source should be exempt just because of politics. MikeD74T

Who are they going to go after? The weatherman for making it dry or for not controlling the wind. Guess we should have had the EPA in the 1930's when most of Texas and Oklahoma wound up in Kansas in the form of dust. Bet the EPA would have controlled that one. A lot of mines and quarries do pretty well at controlling dust with water sprinkling. Some not so good. No source should be exempt and no consumer should get to righteous as long as we keep neeeding and consuming the products from agriculture and mining. It's the old story of save the spotted owl but sell me cheap lumber. Not to worry, we can get it from China. By the way, I'm not quite old enough to remember the 30's, but my parents were.

 

[MikeD74T]

jbooth, Am only responding because you quoted me, but can't tell if you agree or disagree. Dust is pollution, don't think that's debatable, but there's lots of pollution that's acceptable in order to provide benefit to the majority of mankind. What is debatable is the whether the degree of pollution outweighs the benefit, and in the last couple of decades who gets to make that decision. It wasn't the EPA that stopped the dust-bowl era but it was a government bureaucracy, and that bureaucracy didn't have any authority until the dust actually reached Washington DC. Farmers changed the way they work the land as a result. The EPA has controlled other forms of dust for quite a while, for example smoke stack emissions, and farm dust is an obvious next step. The EPA isn't going to eliminate farming but may change the way a few do business. MikeD74T

 

[sweettractors]

The EPA isn't going to eliminate farming but may change the way a few do business. MikeD74T

The more EPS gets involved with farming, the more the consumer should expect to pay for his food supply. Ken Sweet