odd occurance starting ck20

[wade simpson]

When I went to start my tractor this weekend I followed my normal routine, turned the key, waited for the glow plugs to go out and then turned the key to start it....nothing.. the whole start system shut down like I had no battery. I checked the battery connections, fuses and eyeballed the system as much as I could see, everything was fine. I had to disconnect the battery to reset each time I let the glow plugs shut off before turning the key
Tried a few more times then got very worried as I had just recieved 8 tons of gravel. Out of desperation I just turned the key all the way without waiting for the glow plugs and he fired up perfectly, man, I was one relieved guy.

Later on, after running for around 6 hrs, I turned it off and started letting the glow plugs turn themselves off..he started normally.

Any ideas?

 

[Sandlot]

Our little monsters are notorious for having key switch problems. Yours may be developing this issue. A squirt of WD-40 worked for me. I need to find some of that spray Teflon, I hear it is the hot ticket for this problem.

 

[wade simpson]

Where do you spray the fluid? Into the key hole or the connections in the engine compartment?

Can you hotwire the tractor, it almost came to that.

 

[Sandlot]

Where do you spray the fluid? Into the key hole or the connections in the engine compartment?

Can you hotwire the tractor, it almost came to that.

Yep, right into the key hole, but just a squirt. I'am sure it can be hot wired, but I would need to study on it for awhile. I am not sure if the CK20 fuel solenoid is power on running or power on to stop. Some need power to open allowing the engine to run, while others are only energized a few seconds to close, shutting the fuel off and stopping the engine.

 

[sodamo]

Yep, I agree with Sandlot

 

[MichiganIron]

Whether it's Power-on or Power-off fuel system depends on the serial number of the tractor. If it has a fuel shut-off pull knob, it's definitely the older Power-off system.

We would need to know which system it has to determine what might be causing the starting trouble. Key switch is a good place to start.

 

[wade simpson]

Well, if it is a component problem I'm still under warrenty. What would be a reasonable on site quick fix if the key won't start it?
There is no pull knob unless it is interlocked with the start system and I can't see it. The tractor is a 2009. What numbers am I looking for on the serial #?
I haven't called the shop yet.

 

[MichiganIron]

You definitely have a Power-On System. Electrical issues can be a little annoying to trace. When the key switch is turned to the start position, the power is cut to everything else so full power goes to the start circuit. When you turn the key to the "On" position to glow, you should hear a clap from under the hood. That is the fuel solenoid opening to allow the rack to move from the off position. If you don't hear the clap from the start solenoid, you have a power problem. It's possible to glow, but not have enough power to run the start circuit. If you hear the clap, have a good glow, and then nothing, it could be a component issue, ranging from the Battery, Display Unit, Key Switch, Relay, or Harness.

As far as components, you really need to have the system tested, or test it yourself, starting with a load test on the battery.

Since it is still under warranty, the best thing to do is contact your dealer. They will know the sequence to test the system.

 

[wade simpson]

I definitely hear a loud click when I turn to the glow position then a softer click when the plugs go out. Once I turned the key to start, the whole system shut down. I figure it must be some part after the glow plug cycle that is killing it. I'm a little mystified as to why it works if I don't wait for the glow plugs to go out. I hate electrical problems.

It did work normally later on in the day. Is it possible that some moisture was shorting the system and then dried later? The tractor is outside all the time, covered.
I'll be calling the shop today.

Thanx for all advice

 

[RandyT]

My 2005 dk45s did the same thing after owning it for about 6 months. I had a bad cell in the battery. Could put it on the charger for 5 minutes and then it would start normally for a week. If I put the battery on a charger it would pass a battery test. Found the problem when it wouldn't start one day and then just pulled the battery and had it tested and it tested bad that day. Did it again in May of this year and had to replace the battery again.

 

[wade simpson]

Worth checking, both batteries are brand new but stuff happens.

 

[rd_macgregor]

My 2005 dk45s did the same thing after owning it for about 6 months. I had a bad cell in the battery. Could put it on the charger for 5 minutes and then it would start normally for a week. If I put the battery on a charger it would pass a battery test. Found the problem when it wouldn't start one day and then just pulled the battery and had it tested and it tested bad that day. Did it again in May of this year and had to replace the battery again.

Two battery replacements in (less than?) five years? That doesn't sound right to me. It could just be a bad-luck coincidence, or else something is killing your batteries. My 2006 DK45SC is still going strong, with no starting issues so far.

BOB

 

[Gittyup]

On my key switch, if I hold it in just the right position, it starts right up. If I turn the key too hard when starting, nothing happens. I have to find the sweet spot. I'd try jiggling the key switch a little. But, it could be something else entirely, like flakey battery ground connection or relay or short somewhere.

 

[wade simpson]

I just talked to the tech at the shop. He thinks it may be condensation in the switch. I think he's probably right. It could also be a loose connecter in the switch. He suggested if it happens next weekend to turn the lights on if the tractor fails to start. It will eliminate some possibilities if the lights work.

Thanks again for the ideas.

 

[wade simpson]

On my key switch, if I hold it in just the right position, it starts right up. If I turn the key too hard when starting, nothing happens. I have to find the sweet spot. I'd try jiggling the key switch a little. But, it could be something else entirely, like flakey battery ground connection or relay or short somewhere.

Stuff like that drives me nuts. If I have a truck that starts that junk its gone ASAP.

 

[jlsanborn]

Mine did the exact same thing before I even had 10 hours on. In my case, it was the jiffy battery terminals. There was good enough connection to power the pre-heat, but when I slugged the starter it went "off" like you described. I simply removed / replaced the battery terminals and made sure they were clean and tight. Hasn't happened again since, but when the time comes I'll be replacing those cables with good ones.

 

[Gittyup]

Stuff like that drives me nuts. If I have a truck that starts that junk its gone ASAP.

At first it was annoying. But, now I know where to hit it and it's been easy ever since. I don't think much of it anymore. If it were to get worse and solvent/lub didn't help, I'd just buy a new switch (after first trying not to pay for it as this has been a reported problem since the first 100 hours).

In general the switch just isn't that good a quality part, given the number of users reporting problems. Mine isn't out in the weather either. Another example of Kioti not adequately controlling their source's quality. I wonder if they've made changes on newer models???..... Doesn't sound like it.

 

[stihlgoin]

My 2003 is doing much the same thing. (I just happened to start looking for answers today.) I turn the key to the "on" position, and the oil, battery, glow plug AND headlight dash indicators come on, with no glow plug cycling. -I'll try a squirt of WD-40 1st, as we've had some hot ,humid weather for the past two weeks and see what happens. AS an aside, my tractor has 325hrs on it, and this is the 1st major key switch issue.

 

[Steve_Miller]

In my case, it was the jiffy battery terminals. There was good enough connection to power the pre-heat, but when I slugged the starter it went "off" like you described. I simply removed / replaced the battery terminals and made sure they were clean and tight. Hasn't happened again since, but when the time comes I'll be replacing those cables with good ones.

Ditto

Steve

 

[stihlgoin]

My 2003 is doing much the same thing. (I just happened to start looking for answers today.) I turn the key to the "on" position, and the oil, battery, glow plug AND headlight dash indicators come on, with no glow plug cycling. -I'll try a squirt of WD-40 1st, as we've had some hot ,humid weather for the past two weeks and see what happens. AS an aside, my tractor has 325hrs on it, and this is the 1st major key switch issue.

I tried WD-40, waited, cleaned wiring harness connectors, tried the ignition several times, then I remembered a bit from either this thread or a similar one about the PTO lever. It wasn't engaged, but I engaged/disengaged it and tried the ignition again. The tractor started right up. Now to figure out the hazard flashers/turn signals.... -Knocked a flasher off w/ a branch and have had no sucess getting them to work after replacing the flasher. Minor issue, though. Glad to have my machine purring away again.