Using PHD w/TC40DA - need 3rd hand

[barbqranch]

I don't know what the "proper" answer is, but I always slow the engine down to an idle before engaging the PTO. Seems less stressful to me, at least on the clutch. Yes, you do have to push the clutch in.

 

[DocHeb]

Just curious, my TC30 has a lever on the left side for the pto, and I still need to disengage the clutch, or I thrash gears. The transmission is hydrostatic fwd/rev with a geared hi, med, low. So you can just shove the pto lever forward and it just smoothly engages, even at full rpm?

There is no clutch pedal for the PTO on hydraulic Class III Boomers - just a clutch lever rather than a clutch pedal. If you are running the tractor at 2600 RPM and suddenly throw the PTO lever, you will suddenly get full hydraulic output to the PTO. I don't know if it will "smoothly engage" - would your automatic transmission car smoothly engage if you are pushing the accerator to 5000 RPM and suddenly throw the shifter from Neutral to Drive? Haven't tried it. I guess the same example could apply to your clutch pedal TC30. Would you push in the PTO clutch pedal, run the tractor to 2600 RPM, and suddenly pop the PTO clutch?

I have always slowly shifted the PTO lever to engage the PTO with the tractor running at 1500 RPM. There is some "feathering" that can be done to slowly start the PTO rotation, and then quickly finish throwing the lever to full. There is also a PTO brake on these tractors, so I drop the throttle back to idle, let the PTO slow down, and then disengage. The PTO stops rotating in seconds.

 

[jinman]

Just curious, my TC30 has a lever on the left side for the pto, and I still need to disengage the clutch, or I thrash gears. The transmission is hydrostatic fwd/rev with a geared hi, med, low. So you can just shove the pto lever forward and it just smoothly engages, even at full rpm?

Montejw, Chris's (DocHeb's) description is exactly correct. Our Class III Boomers with HST transmissions are unique in that they do not have a transmission clutch. The engine is directly coupled into the transmission. When you allow the HST pedals to come to neutral position, you can change transmission ranges because there is no engine power coupled through the transmission. As long as you don't press on the forward or reverse HST pedal, there will be no gear grinding when the ranges are changed.

Now, completely independent of the HST transmission, there is a shaft that drives the PTO. This PTO has its own clutch that is engaged with hydraulic pressure. When you move the PTO lever to engage, hydraulic pressure is allowed to cause a PTO brake to release and the clutch to engage. If the tractor's hydraulic pump fails, the PTO will automatically disengage because it loses pressure. We normally lower our RPM before engaging/disengaging the PTO because it saves the hydraulic clutch. On a small device like a PHD that has very little inertia, you can disengage the PTO and it will stop almost immediately. If you have something like a rotary cutter, it takes a few seconds for the PTO to stop. The faster it is going, the longer it takes. Lowering engine RPM is the best way to ensure your PTO clutch and brake will last a long time.

Many/most HST tractors have a regular clutch for the transmission, but this is not true for the TC35/40/45 Deluxe model tractors. If you own a tractor like the TC30, you can easily get confused by our discussions. On all tractors, lowering engine RPM to engage/disengage the PTO is a good idea whether the tractor is a fully independent PTO or not.

 

[lhfarm]

We are monsoon season in Indiana, so I haven't been able to do any digging. Maybe this weekend. The soil is clay (soup at the moment) mixed with sandstone (called Brown county stone around here). I will take all the advice about making sure the auger is clean and sharp (it was rusty) and will lower my RPMs. I also like the idea of facing backwards. I may try that.

On the subject of the RPMs to use when engaging the PTO, I had an early lesson. I had the bush hog used by my FIL with his 8N. I had to change the more shaft from the smaller 8N size to the modern size and had my welder make me a quick disconnect (collar type) shaft adaptor. I had a friend over who wanted to try the tractor, so I sent him off to mow, while I did some other work. I had shown him the 540 mark on the tach and said (but he didn't hear) engage the PTO at a low engage speed, then increase it to the 540 mark. Instead, he hit the 540 mark and then engaged the PTO. It twisted the adaptor like it was made of clay. Both of us learned that day of the wisdom of slow PTO engagement

 

[lhfarm]

I was able to dig a couple of holes yesterday and had a much more pleasant experience. Clearly, the lower RPMs was the secret, but locking the brakes let me turn easier. Much great control.

The ground had dried a lot and was just about perfect for digging in our clay. When I get the fence up, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks for the great advice.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Although I've had my TC40DA for 5 years, I've never used my PHD much, until the latest fence building project. I've only dug 2 of the fence post holes, but it wasn't a lot of fun. On my old tractor, I had control of the PTO with a foot clutch, so had my hands free to guide the tractor and work the 3PH. With the new tractor, I have the PTO lever on my left, the 3PH lever on my right, the wheel in front of me and the PHD behind me. I feel like I need a 3rd hand!

What I am doing now is guiding the PHD into position, putting my foot firmly on the brake. I then lower the 3PH to the ground. I have to turn back around, take my left hand off the wheel and engage the PTO. I quickly turn around to watch what is happening and to raise the 3PT at the right moment, then quickly turning back to the left so I can disengage the PTO. I feel like I'm doing a very bad dance and it also feels a little dangerous.

Am I doing this correctly and do I just need practice, or is there a better method?

Thanks,

When i auger post holes with my Ford 4610, I set the auger up in the proper spot, I put the tranny in neutral, lock the parking brake, put the bucket on the FEL down and run the pto and the three point while standing on the ground near the right rear wheel. I have an independent pto and that lever is on the left side of the tractor, while the 3pt is controlled with a lever on the right side of the tractor.
I set the throttle at around 1000-1100 rpm, and engage the pto until the hole is augered or the shear pin breaks! I repeatedly raise and lower the 3 pt to clear the dirt out of the hole. I can do this because of the independent pto. If you can cut off your pto without using the clutch (I can on my TO-30 and it doesn't even have live pto.) than you can use this technique also.

 

[montejw]

Montejw, Chris's (DocHeb's) description is exactly correct. Our Class III Boomers with HST transmissions are unique in that they do not have a transmission clutch. The engine is directly coupled into the transmission. When you allow the HST pedals to come to neutral position, you can change transmission ranges because there is no engine power coupled through the transmission. As long as you don't press on the forward or reverse HST pedal, there will be no gear grinding when the ranges are changed.

The TC-30 works pretty close to this description. You don't need to use the clutch for shifting the L-M-H range shifter if the HST pedal is in neutral. Using the clutch doesn't work if you are moving either, you need to be stopped.

Now, completely independent of the HST transmission, there is a shaft that drives the PTO. This PTO has its own clutch that is engaged with hydraulic pressure. When you move the PTO lever to engage, hydraulic pressure is allowed to cause a PTO brake to release and the clutch to engage. If the tractor's hydraulic pump fails, the PTO will automatically disengage because it loses pressure. We normally lower our RPM before engaging/disengaging the PTO because it saves the hydraulic clutch. On a small device like a PHD that has very little inertia, you can disengage the PTO and it will stop almost immediately. If you have something like a rotary cutter, it takes a few seconds for the PTO to stop. The faster it is going, the longer it takes. Lowering engine RPM is the best way to ensure your PTO clutch and brake will last a long time.

Here's the difference, I have to use the clutch for the pto, whereas the clutch for yours is actuated by the lever evidently. So both tractors have a clutch for the PTO, one is foot actuated, the other is hydraulic.

Many/most HST tractors have a regular clutch for the transmission, but this is not true for the TC35/40/45 Deluxe model tractors. If you own a tractor like the TC30, you can easily get confused by our discussions. On all tractors, lowering engine RPM to engage/disengage the PTO is a good idea whether the tractor is a fully independent PTO or not.

I'm wondering if the clutch on the TC30 is actually for the transmission, I'm thinking not. It's just for the PTO. Or at least that's the only time you'd ever use it. At least that's my experience.

 

[jinman]

I'm wondering if the clutch on the TC30 is actually for the transmission, I'm thinking not. It's just for the PTO. Or at least that's the only time you'd ever use it. At least that's my experience.

If you are moving and depress the clutch pedal fully, does the tractor stop? If the tractor stops, you have a transmission clutch. The gear transmissions on the TC30 have a dual clutch (PTO and transmission), but the HST model's transmission only has a single clutch. I'm not completely sure how it is mechanized, but if you depress the clutch pedal and the tractor cannot be moved, it's a transmission clutch. If you depress it and the tractor keeps going, it is not a transmission clutch.

 

[lhfarm]

...The other advantage of running slower is that you will never experience the joy of "augering down" - where the auger suddenly gets a really good bite in the soil, or threads around a larger rock or root. In ten turns of the PTO the auger will screw itself completely into the ground. If your PTO is running at 300 RPM - this will happen so fast you will not be able to react. Then you will find that your 3pt will bypass when you try to lift the auger out of the hole. You will have to disconnect the drive head and use a really big pipe to unscrew the auger from the ground. You will only do this once.
....

Will I was on the next to last hole, the heat index was over 100 and I am completely soaked. Even though I was going slow, I got to experience "augering down" for myself. As you can see from the attached (not very good) picture, I am at the edge of the woods. The PHD grabbed a root and just took off. And you are correct, I didn't react quick enough to stop it. I sheared a pin and kicked in the 3pt bypass.

Disconnect the auger, but I couldn't turn it with a pipe wrench and cheater bar. Ended up rocking it with the FEL and then wrapped a chain around it and lifted it out. I did get the post in, but called it a day. Not sure if the speed was too fast or the operator was too slow. I'm blaming it on the heat.

 

[jinman]

Stuck auger or not, that's a fine looking rail fence Barry. Nice job!:thumbsup: