Tractor Sizing How many horses is enough?

[atlkep1]

I know nothing about tractors and even less about the HP required to run the multitude of implements that can be attached to them

I live on pretty hilly property, so I know that 4WD is a given.

So, on a 4WD tractor, how much HP is enough to

1. maintain driveway, 3/4 mile brick-like-clay dirt road up a mountain (that took a severe beating this winter)
2. install fencing for newly created pasture (have access to neighbors PHD)
3. general field work, remove small (4 -5") stumps, rocks, grade for seeding
4. possible hay making going on (square baler to help neighbor), some bushhogging fields
5. NO round bale handling, will deal w/square bales as needed
6. removing snow from driveway as needed
7. haul firewood out of the woods, maybe split firewood (have reasonably good woods roads to work from, as we had the land timbered about 16 years ago)
8. maintain woods roads for wood gathering and horse riding
9. maintain riding ring, mostly smoothing surface

I have dealers, nearby (in order of proximity), for Kioti, JD, BobCat, MF, NH.

I want to stay w/a CUT as I would like for my wife and kids (18,16) to be able to use the tractor as needed. I'm figuring that this requirement is going to have an effect on the type of transmission that I go looking for (shuttle, HST, etc?) and I think that also can have an impact on usable HP.

Any and all suggestions would be sincerely appreciated:thumbsup:

Keith

 

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum

I do quite well with a 32 hp, HST with FEL, bucket/forks, ('99 Deere 4300)

Would suggest looking close at the Deere 3720 w/cab if wanting to be warm when plowing snow, and have room to get around in the woods with a cab.

Similar size tractors in the other brands, picking them for the dealer support mainly.

Good luck with your search.

 

[RoyJackson]

Welcome to the forum

I do quite well with a 32 hp, HST with FEL, bucket/forks, ('99 Deere 4300)

Would suggest looking close at the Deere 3720 w/cab if wanting to be warm when plowing snow, and have room to get around in the woods with a cab.

Similar size tractors in the other brands, picking them for the dealer support mainly.

Good luck with your search.

Sounds about right...

As much as I'm a gear guy, since atlkep1's wife and kids are going to operate the equipment, reckon I'd suggest the hydro (shudder!)

 

[polo1665]

Welcome to the forum

I do quite well with a 32 hp, HST with FEL, bucket/forks, ('99 Deere 4300)

Would suggest looking close at the Deere 3720 w/cab if wanting to be warm when plowing snow, and have room to get around in the woods with a cab.

Similar size tractors in the other brands, picking them for the dealer support mainly.

Good luck with your search.

Would that tractor run that square baler he was talking about? I thought balers needed a bit more umph. (asking out of ignorance)

Mark

 

[R_Walter]

Would that tractor run that square baler he was talking about? I thought balers needed a bit more umph. (asking out of ignorance)

Mark

If you've never hayed before, there's a considerable learning curve. You're not just operating some equipment, but you're getting into agriculture, which is a fairly discliplined affair.

 

[pitt_md]

Would that tractor run that square baler he was talking about? I thought balers needed a bit more umph. (asking out of ignorance)

Mark

I see a guy bailing with a NH 35 - 40 hp tractor so I know it can be done.

 

[flusher]

Quick answer: 35 to 50 pto hp. Lotsa choices in that hp range.
If you're serious about baling hay, be aware that 35 pto hp is about the minimum I'd recommend--my MF 124 baler (small squares) requires 35.

Have at it.

 

[RobertN]

I would be concerned with the hay equipment and having PTO power to drive it. I would look at the implements you need, and see how much HP they need.

I got bit by this. The general rule is 5hp per foot of rotary mower. I had 15 pto HP, but a 4' mower. Definitel had a hard time in thick heavy stuff. My Kubota B series was a great tractor for everything else but mowing.

For the auger, remember unless you have down pressure(more expensive auger), you will not dig holes in that clay except right now... Gravity pressure does not help. In a few weeks, my auger will be useless on my property. Because it becomes brick like clay.

Now I have a 40hp tractor, that can easily drive a 6' rotary mower. And the loader bucket is much larger.

I like HST for my applications. The wife and son drive the tractor. It works well for my hilly treed property. I would note, my wife can drive anything with an engine. She would be fine with a shuttle or gear, but on our property like the HST.

Find out the info on the hay baling; that PTO power requirement may really define the tractor you look for.

Also, how much property?

I know nothing about tractors and even less about the HP required to run the multitude of implements that can be attached to them

I live on pretty hilly property, so I know that 4WD is a given.

So, on a 4WD tractor, how much HP is enough to

1. maintain driveway, 3/4 mile brick-like-clay dirt road up a mountain (that took a severe beating this winter)
2. install fencing for newly created pasture (have access to neighbors PHD)
3. general field work, remove small (4 -5") stumps, rocks, grade for seeding
4. possible hay making going on (square baler to help neighbor), some bushhogging fields
5. NO round bale handling, will deal w/square bales as needed
6. removing snow from driveway as needed
7. haul firewood out of the woods, maybe split firewood (have reasonably good woods roads to work from, as we had the land timbered about 16 years ago)
8. maintain woods roads for wood gathering and horse riding
9. maintain riding ring, mostly smoothing surface

I have dealers, nearby (in order of proximity), for Kioti, JD, BobCat, MF, NH.

I want to stay w/a CUT as I would like for my wife and kids (18,16) to be able to use the tractor as needed. I'm figuring that this requirement is going to have an effect on the type of transmission that I go looking for (shuttle, HST, etc?) and I think that also can have an impact on usable HP.

Any and all suggestions would be sincerely appreciated:thumbsup:

Keith

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Hard to disagree with advise so far. My initial thoughts were baling and ground engagement work are going to be the power hogs. Will need 35-50 HP for the bailing depending upon how fast you intend to push the hay through the baler. Might get by with 35HP if not pushing it. As for ground engagement work and doing so in the spring when the ground is still damp and somewhat soft will cut back on power needs. And as mentioned unless you get a model with down pressure on the 3pt, you're going to be hard pressed using a post hole digger other than early in the spring.

Presently my Yanmar (24 PTO HP) handles all my needs but I don't have the need for a baler. Yrs back when I was haying, I had a MF 165D ~55HP and due to the load placed on it from the M/C and the baler, there were times when the tractor was grunting. We do have HEAVY yields of grass in the spring.

You know best whether the wife of kids can handle a std gear transmission.

 

[riptides]

Sounds like you may need two machines.

One for around the house and maintenance work, as you describe.

One to help the neighbor out.

Or, one close to 50hp for the field work and ground engagments, and hope it is small and light weight to manuver around your house and fences.

How much land? Hills? Woods? Trails?

 

[backdoor]

Be sure to get a tractor with enough weight and the right tires to hold the baler back on those hilly fields, and consider what ever weight you will have behind you coming off hills with a load of firewood. As for transmission type, preference is the big point. My 16 year old daughter drives my Ford with a 4x2 gear trans, and a friend's 855 JD TLB with something like a 3x4 gear trans. When you can hold the brakes and clutch at the same time, and set the hand throttle up a little, gear work is simple. I've driven HST's, and I liked them. I have a friend who uses a 2" dia. auger to drill holes where he is going to dig postholes, fills these holes with water for a couple days, then uses his PHD to finish the job after the water has soaked in. I live in western Franklin County, VA. I have relatives in Botetourt County and I've built a few houses there. I expect I have the same kind of hills and dirt as you have. Hope this helps.

 

[8404]

Ive seen in my experiance that i realy needed a tractor with cat 2 lift arms so now it looks like ill be owning two tractors now. so maybe you should just skip the small stuff and get the 55hp to 75hp tractor then you can get any small farm empliment you want and have the weight to use it. I believe you would be better off buy something bigger than you feel you need.

 

[Ken45101]

When I had a M4700 (40 hp pto and about 4000#), I was told that would be too light for running a baler. Also, on hilly terrain, it may be light for controlling a baler or hay wagon.

It did fine with a 6' rotary cutter ("bush hog") no matter how tall the weeds and grass.

However, it was a bit big for working in the woods on trails. I now have a M5040 (similar size) but I don't even want to take that into the woods unless the trail is 8-9' wide. It also seems that the newer tractors (Kubota at least) have more exposed underneath that can be damaged by brush.

Some post hole diggers might not fit on smaller tractors. I've never been able to get mine onto a B2710.

Ken

 

[tree farmer]

Two tractors would be nice, but compromises have been made by neccesity for many years. When I was young, (100+ years ago:confused2 we had 1 tractor, a B model John Deere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was less than 20 HP. With it we ran a 6' sickle bar mower, iron wheel side delivery rake, IH baler, which had a v-4 Wisconsin drive engine, single bottom plow, etc. When it came time to chop sileage, we had the neighbor come over with his model D John Deere and chopper to do that task in trade for our labor later on. Post holes were dug by hand, FEL's were a luxury that few had, and we stayed relatively physically fit. All this on 45 wet, hilly acres here on the coast. Regarding driveabity of a tractor, I would NEVER buy a machine based on a person's ability to operate it safely. Proper way is to train that person to safely operate it.:thumbsup: We all know people that shouldn't be allowed to operate anything more technical than a toilet plunger:laughing:....Dan.

 

[wolc123]

I see you are talking about tractors. Before I opened the thread, I thought it was about the HBSM type of horse (Hay-Burning S - - T Maker).

 

[Ken45101]

Two tractors would be nice, but compromises have been made by neccesity for many years. When I was young, (100+ years ago:confused2 we had 1 tractor, a B model John Deere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was less than 20 HP. With it we ran a 6' sickle bar mower, iron wheel side delivery rake, IH baler, which had a v-4 Wisconsin drive engine, single bottom plow, etc.

I suspect that those old tractors weighed a lot more than today's 20 hp tractors. That's important for controlling heavy equipment.

Of course, a 6' sickle bar mower doesn't take near as much power to run as a 6' bush hog.

Ken

 

[atlkep1]

Thanx for the input guys!

There won't be any hay making on my hilly land. That will happen (if it happens) strictly on very flat bottom land down by the creek. But after conversations today, I'm not sure that it will even happen.

So . . . . let me modify my original list of tasks to EXCLUDE running a square baler:confused2:

With the remaining list of tasks, how many horses?

Also, RobertN mentioned "down pressure" on the auger, so I'm assuming that the 3PH, by default, does NOT have any down pressure on it. Is this correct?

Is this part of what a TNT (top and tilt, is that right?) would give me? Does that create "down pressure"? Or is that a property of a much more expensive auger?

We have 60 acres here. Approx 15 - 20 will be cleared and converted to pasture. It's somewhat hilly, sitting mainly on the top of the ridge and running off the south side. The pasture will be oddly shaped to take advantage of the flattest land that is available, a couple of "arms" running off of our ridge.

The land is currently all wooded with some good woods roads that were left when we timbered the land about 15 years ago. Only one of the logging roads is too steep to be usable, rest are very drivable. I intend to use these to gather wood for stove.

Keith

 

[Ken45101]

Keith,

a 3 pt hitch provides no down pressure beyond the weight of whatever is attached to it. A hydraulic toplink (e.g. TNT) will NOT add any downpressure.

Some post hold diggers have an arm on them that sticks out and you can add your weight to pull it down. Or you could add concrete blocks or iron weights to the PHD.

But nothing on the tractor pushes the 3pt down. The arms only lift upward, gravity takes it back down.

Post hole diggers for skid steers or front end loaders CAN exert down pressure.

Ken

 

[foggy1111]

Drilling post size holes (9") with a post hole digger should not be a big deal with a good auger.....at least in my part of the world. Some soil types are more difficult than others, and big augers can be a challenge....but I think you can bore some holes....especially if you get one with a lever on it to assist the down pressure.

You will have enough power for the PHD with any tractor were talking about here....IMO. Gravity and the screw will get it in the ground in most cases.

Oh....and one horse is one too many....if it eats hay.

 

[CurlyDave]

If you give up on the hay, 30-40 HP should handle it quite nicely. Maybe even a few less if the budget is a major concern.

In my part of the country post holes do not get dug without down pressure from mid-spring until early spring new year. There is a short window when the ground is wet enough to dig, and after that it is too hard. There might be another short window in late fall, after the rains start but before the ground freezes. That window coincides with deer and elk seasons, and it is only under great duress that a post hole would get dug then.

New, a unit with down pressure is about $400-500 more than one without (almost double). Some units have the option of adding down pressure and be sure to get one like that if you want to try just gravity.