Bird
Rest in Peace
Yeah, but if you're busy, you can leave them sitting in the waiting room for 24 hours until they die or get up and leave, as has been done in Dallas.
health insurance bill
- Thread starter tglass
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Yeah, but if you're busy, you can leave them sitting in the waiting room for 24 hours until they die or get up and leave, as has been done in Dallas.
Bedlam
Veteran Member
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Good point Bird...Ive heard of that happening even saw a video once. Sad all around ..
tulenutn2o
Platinum Member
History has shown us that nothing the Government does ends up costing less. Ours is just as corrupt as all the others around the world. We are like the frog in the pan of water, they are turning up the heat a little at a time so we will not jump out. Not too much longer and we'll be cooked. Every system has to have winners and losers, we can't all be rich at the same time, can't all have the same pay, etc. If we did, wouldn't that be socialism?(It's been many years since school). All I know is, It is costing me more money for sure in 2011-. You cannot add 30 million or more to the system, subsidize their insurance and have it NOT cost more money. Insurance companies are the BIG winners. They get 30mil. more customers. On the taxpayer's dime. Those taxes are coming from a dwindling source-WORKING people, who by the way, are making LESS money than they did before. Math does not point to the system costing less, improving care,anything. My .02 + a dime for inflation.
bschopf2280
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If I remember correctly, there's in the neighborhood of 34 million folks that are going to be newly insured (whether they like it or not, because it appears the government is going to punish those who'd chose to not have it).
With large areas of this country having a provider shortage, where do you think they're going to end up?
I work in the health care field, paramedic. We, the tax payers and health insurance owners, have been paying for what this bill will cover all along. Do you think the 34 million folks that will now have to get health insurance never got sick before? They did. They would just go to the ER where they would be treated, then either forgo there medical bills or make payments. So to cover these costs and also the lost revenue from medicare, hospitals raise the cost of health care to the individuals with health insurance.
What this bill does for individuals that currently have health insurance is hopefully lower the increases in our health insurance premiums. It does this by adding 34 million paying customers to the health care pool. Now many of the 34 million uninsured are the healthy young people that have never been sick, so in the past they have not gotten health insurance. Problem is they eventually get sick or injured and incur medical bills that they are unable to pay. For those that say it is unconstitutional to force these individuals to purchase health insurance I offer these two thoughts. Governments have forced individuals to purchase services they don't necessarily want or use since the inception of governing, this is called taxes. Also in many states the government has forced drivers to purchase car insurance if they want to drive.
The bill also insures everyone, regardless of past medical history, the inability for health insurers to deny you coverage or drop you from your current plan. This came too late for a pt I had that had passed out in her bathroom from severe dehydration. She was battling her third bout with cancer. She was a successful business women when she got cancer the first time and her insurance company dropped her. Since then she lost her house, her car and many of her personal belongings had to be sold to pay medical bills. Currently she was living above the garage of a friend. Even though she had no clue how she was going to pay for this trip to the hospital, she was still trying to smile.
Although not perfect, we need to give this health care bill a chance. America needs this.
LostInTheWoods
Platinum Member
OK. I tried to let this pass. Please, forgive me in advance.
I truly don't look to offend or cross into politics. I think I did OK keeping out more than just generalizations about politics. And yes, some of this is oversimplifying things, but the point is made...
I work in the health care field, paramedic. We, the tax payers and health insurance owners, have been paying for what this bill will cover all along. Do you think the 34 million folks that will now have to get health insurance never got sick before? They did.
I also work in the healthcare field. I have some insight into the current healthcare bill. In all honesty, I have not read through the monstrous collection of legalese that is our new healthcare bill. In fact, I would propose that most of us haven't. Legislators from both sides of the aisle have been cornered into admitting they have some, let me paraphrase, "incomplete information" on all the details therein.
Governments are like people. I never seen on that's perfect, including when I look in the mirror. With this particular bill, I fear, as others have posted, government will have as much success with this as it typically does with most things better left to the market. How successful do you believe the government has been with Amtrak? The Post Office? Social Security?
Unless I am misreading your intention, you contradict yourself. In the first paragraph,you question "Do you think the 34 million folks that will now have to get health insurance never got sick before? They did". In the second, you imply that most of these newly insured are "healthy young people that have never been sick". That's a bit like having your cake and eating it too.
Problem is they eventually get sick or injured and incur medical bills that they are unable to pay. They would just go to the ER where they would be treated, then either forgo there medical bills or make payments.
I speak from personal experience that making payments on medical bills is not fun. Been there and done that. Never did I think I could "forgo" paying my medical bills. My bills, my responsibility. Make payments on healthcare? Great! My health is way more valuable to me that anything else I have ever made payments on. If I buy the services of anyone else, be they plumber, accountant, or automobile mechanic, am I entitled to "forgo" payment to them if I don't have the cash? But healthcare is different, some say. Why? Without the plumber, my house would flood and I wouldn't have decent shelter. I NEED it. Therefore, if I feel I can't afford to pay him after the job's done, so be it. If I can't pay the mechanic after my car's fixed, tough luck. I NEED it to get back and forth to work. I can't figure my way through all the tax laws by myself, I NEED the accountant to do it for me, even if I can't pay for it.
For those that say it is unconstitutional to force these individuals to purchase health insurance I offer these two thoughts.
I would expound a bit more on the constitutionality of forcing something like healthcare onto citizens who would otherwise choose not to have it, but I suspect this would cross the "no politics" line our moderators ask us to oblige.
Also in many states the government has forced drivers to purchase car insurance if they want to drive.
If someone does not pay for his/her own healthcare, then they own all that goes with that. If someone injures another without the means to duly compensate them, there is a difference.
Governments have forced individuals to purchase services they don't necessarily want or use since the inception of governing, this is called taxes.
According to what I have seen in the Constuition and Bill of Rights, this government is intended to provide for the common defense, and for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. (Before anyone writes, yes there are other things, but you get my drift). There are reasons for any tax or program. But are they the right reasons?
She was battling her third bout with cancer...
No one wants to see someone's grandmother be denied care. Or little children. There are always "I know this guy..." stories that both sides use. There IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT in our current system. And I've seen some of the rankings by the World Health Organization and others that say the US healthcare is on par with, I don't know, Paraguay or some such. If you watch the news, however, three or four times a year you will catch a blurb about some sheik or other foreign dignitary that can choose basically anywhere on the planet for care, but where did they end up? Must be something good here. I don't think anyone should be denied emergent health care. There are programs already in existence to help with those costs, just ask anyone in hospital admissions.
Although not perfect, we need to give this health care bill a chance. America needs this.
I would like (if it doesn't displease the moderators) to see more of our friends on TBN from other countries weigh in on rationing healthcare and the other malfunctions we hear of from other places...
While lip-service was given to other needed changes like tort reform (have you SEEN what doctors have to pay for malpractice?), I don't know that any such changes were ever included.
And for anyone who believes the line about this program being "budget neutral" and/or not dramatically increasing the burden on the taxpayer to the tune of billions, let me tell you about this oceanfront time share condo I have in KY...
brin
Super Member
Just great - You say we need this...So my question is ..Have you read the Bill ? All 2,000 + pages of it because the congress has not and yet they voted for it. Does that make sense ? Would you sign any contract with anyone for anything without reading it completely ? I think not.
The proper way to fix health care, in my opinion, would have been to fix only what was wrong - cover pre-existing conditions etc. but not take over 1/6 th of our economy and add 30 Million to the health care rolls without the docs or facilities which will only lead to rationing and long waits for an appointment and long waits at the docs office plus bankrupt our country. Think it over !
arrow
Super Member
The proper way to fix health care, in my opinion, would have been to fix only what was wrong - cover pre-existing conditions etc. but not take over 1/6 th of our economy and add 30 Million to the health care rolls without the docs or facilities which will only lead to rationing and long waits for an appointment and long waits at the docs office plus bankrupt our country. Think it over !
Exactly... what also might have been adopted
1. Establish an insurance pool that all without prior health care would have to pay into.
2. Institute tort reform to help lower litigation and insurance fees for medical profession.
3. Lower health care provider cost.
It is ludicrous to have to pay $15300 per year for 3 people in a family and then be charged an additional $400 for a colonoscopy. If we were not paying for 3 other people who did not have it along with massive litigation liabilities, then perhaps #3 could more easily be done.
The largest problem with this bill? no one hardly knows what's in it. Add to that as to where it is coming from...pretty scary a proposition.
bschopf2280
New member
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First my motivations are not political. I am only interested in living a good life and doing what I can to make others lives good too. I have not read the Bill. Lostinthewoods, I do agree with you that government is not perfect. The list goes on and on, school systems, social security, medicare. That being said, I am not perfect, but I do have ideals and lofty goals. I know that I will never reach those goals, but I try and every day I get a little better. Maybe health care is that for the government. Everybody can agree the bill is flawed, but hopefully with time what works will stay and what doesn't will get reworked or taken out completely. This post and my last were opinion only. Although I am a health care professional, I am in no way an expert in billing or cost analysis.
I also want to apologize to Lostinthewoods about my comment on medical bill payments. I was not putting those down that make payments on medical bills or even the ones that don't. Just merely stating that when medical bills aren't paid in a timely fashion, the cost is shifted to those, mostly the insurance companies and self insured companies and individuals, that can. I could not pay a large medical bill out of pocket myself. I would have to make payments like all others.
Again this is all in my opinion. I wish that I could look in the future and say that this will work, I can't. I also can't look in the future and say it won't.
I also want to apologize to Lostinthewoods about my comment on medical bill payments. I was not putting those down that make payments on medical bills or even the ones that don't. Just merely stating that when medical bills aren't paid in a timely fashion, the cost is shifted to those, mostly the insurance companies and self insured companies and individuals, that can. I could not pay a large medical bill out of pocket myself. I would have to make payments like all others.
Again this is all in my opinion. I wish that I could look in the future and say that this will work, I can't. I also can't look in the future and say it won't.
LostInTheWoods
Platinum Member
I also want to apologize to Lostinthewoods about my comment on medical bill payments.
No apology necessary. I never felt like you were trying to offend anyone, anymore than I want to appear insensitive to those without the means to afford health insurance. I HAVE BEEN unable to afford insurance. I empathize.
Although I am a health care professional, I am in no way an expert in billing or cost analysis.
I've been practicing medicine for ten years. If I ever figure it out, I'll let you know. :laughing:
That being said, I am not perfect, but I do have ideals and lofty goals. I know that I will never reach those goals, but I try and every day I get a little better.
Worthy goals for everyone.
Maybe health care is that for the government. Everybody can agree the bill is flawed, but hopefully with time what works will stay and what doesn't will get reworked or taken out completely.
What separates you and I is outlook. You (at least when it comes to healthcare) seem to be an idealist. You see a problem and want to make it better, even if comes down to "hoping". You are willing to roll the dice to see what happens. As a realist, I see that by looking at the facts as I know them, and tempering them against the known history of our government...well I'm expecting the worst. I'm not trying to bash our government. I would't wish to have been born anywhere else.
Respectfully,
Lost
