Hydro's and brake pedals

[TripleR]

Sorry about the double response, but just realized that operators without hydrostatic drive may not realize that the tractor slows/stops as you release pressure on the hydrostatic control pedal. On my Kubota the brake pedals are located immediately above the control pedal, but they are rarely needed. If the need should arise to have both forward movement and an expedited turn radius, the control pedal can be used in combination with one of the split pedals to accelerate the turn.

I was a big fan of split brakes until 4WD came along. Now I use it mostly when using the front bucket to smooth gravel while backing-up, or near an edge in slippery terrain conditions. Kind of like doing the hokey-pokey and shaking it all about:laughing:.

JC

When your life flashes before your eyes, make sure you have plenty to watch :thumbsup:

Couldn't you use the "cruise control" instead of the foot operated HST and use your split brakes? I don't bother with split brakes on a 4WD either and just keep them locked together.

When I transitioned from a 2WD to a 4WD, all I managed when using split brakes was to drag a tire, tear up the ground and effect the turning radius only marginally if at all.

I pretty much agree with your first post, being and old codger myself. I don't have much use of my left leg and have had to "multitask" for many, many years.

 

[patrick_g]

Couldn't you use the "cruise control" instead of the foot operated HST and use your split brakes?

Not on my Kubota as it is designed and built to release the cruise setting if you apply the brakes. Think about it! Would you want the cruise to keep you going while yo were using the brakes to try to stop (in most normal situations.) Not saying a way to override might not be handy once in a blue moon but it is not built in to my Grand L4610HSTC.

Pat

 

[TripleR]

Not on my Kubota as it is designed and built to release the cruise setting if you apply the brakes. Think about it! Would you want the cruise to keep you going while yo were using the brakes to try to stop (in most normal situations.) Not saying a way to override might not be handy once in a blue moon but it is not built in to my Grand L4610HSTC.

Pat

Maybe mine isn't working properly as my cruise control only kicks off when the brakes are locked together. Of course my method would only work going forward. My question/suggestion is only theoretical since I don't have the need to use split brakes for anything and haven't tried it. Now I am curious, but it has been raining for a day and a half and I am not curious if it works in the mud.

Since my "cruise control" is hand operated and can be used in the same manner going forward as an HST foot pedal and applying the brake only unlocks it and lets it return to "neutral", I wonder if you could over ride this by keeping your hand on the lever. When it dries out, I may check on it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Couldn't you use the "cruise control" instead of the foot operated HST and use your split brakes? I don't bother with split brakes on a 4WD either and just keep them locked together.

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

 

[FritzII]

Glad I decided to get the split brakes when I upgraded !!!!
I have used them for snow removal and back dragging with the FEL. It's a little tricky, but I'm getting there.

 

[beenthere]

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

That was well stated Spyder.
Amazing what one has to give up or do, to make up for the design bleeps of a mfg. But that is what competition is all about.
I use the split brakes (on the left) less with 4wd than I did with the 2wd, but could not function in tight situations that are mentioned without easily accessible split brakes.
No requirement to lock them, as a single brake pedal for both wheels is also located on the right just above the HST pedals.

 

[jinman]

No brainer! Why all the fuss? If a 60 year old person can move his left foot over his right, why does it take 30 plus pages to to figure this out?:thumbsup:

Let's see if I understand this. You can roll your body and move your left foot over to the right and press on the left pedal above your right foot on the HST treadle. However, having brake pedals on the left would be confusing. . . . What's all the fuss, indeed? It's clear to me why this discussion has gone on for 30 pages.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Let's see if I understand this. You can roll your body and move your left foot over to the right and press on the left pedal above your right foot on the HST treadle. However, having brake pedals on the left would be confusing. . . . What's all the fuss, indeed? It's clear to me why this discussion has gone on for 30 pages.

And then of course, from there it will be no problem to dance that foot a little more rightward to get to the right brake pedal and apply it timely and with finesse. - - Wow, this sounds more dangerous than getting stuck, and about as dangerous as falling off the edge by not being able to use the feature effectively.
larry

 

[beenthere]

Let's see if I understand this. You can roll your body and move your left foot over to the right and press on the left pedal above your right foot on the HST treadle. However, having brake pedals on the left would be confusing. . . . What's all the fuss, indeed? It's clear to me why this discussion has gone on for 30 pages.

Having individual brakes on the left is not confusing at all. And they are there when needed, without twisting or turning or fussing.
The 30 pages seems mostly to defend a poor design, but then we tractor owners do protect our decisions to buy what we like. I think most people are happy with their decisions. I am, and wouldn't think of having the brakes on the right where I couldn't use them.

I enjoy asking the salesmen why the individual brakes are on the right with their HST pedals, and they stutter or stammer before saying people don't use left and right brakes anymore.

 

[RobertN]

I guess with my previous experience I still do not see the big deal.

I have been on the side of a hill, crawling over rocks, with trees inches(sometimes less) away. Sometimes the rocks less than inches away.

Although I have mentioned it before in the thread, this post made me think; I drive my 4x4 HST tractor just like I did my old Jeep. Like on Rubicon and countless other rock bound trails. I never had cutting brakes on the Jeep, yet got it in to some really technical trail sections.

Just a guess, but probably other people do the same.

In regards to using the cutting brakes being "delayed" or absent recognition", mine are always locked together. So yes, I'd have to reach down and flip the lever holding them together before I could use them.

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

 

[TripleR]

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

I hope I misunderstood this post as it sounds as though you believe that I am either stupid, inexperienced or both with maybe a little na?et thrown in.

I grew up on a farm and have driven a tractor for over fifty years. I have used 2WD as well as 4WD, geared and HST. I have operated equipment in conditions as you describe and I prefer diff lock as opposed to split brakes as this works better for my tractors. Having used split brakes most of my life farming, it was kind of hard to adjust to the limited utility on my newer tractors and it took quite a while to adapt. If split brakes work better for you and your tractor then fine, but don稚 assume that I don稚 is the result of inexperience or ignorance.

At my age the é›»emanding and unpredictable situations no longer apply as I have learned enough not to get myself or equipment into such a situation. I also know that in an ç*¥npredictable situation, I am going to react instinctively and since seven of the tractors I operate have right foot brakes, that is where I am going to put my foot.

 

[RobertN]

Dunno about that. I sold my Kubota to get a larger, more hp tractor. Now I have a New Holland with HST on the right, brakes on the left. Either way is just fine.

The only reason I see for steering brakes is for a farmer plowing 40 acres and having to make that zero radius turn at the end of the row.

The 30 pages seems mostly to defend a poor design, but then we tractor owners do protect our decisions to buy what we like. I think most people are happy with their decisions. I am, and wouldn't think of having the brakes on the right where I couldn't use them.

 

[RobertN]

For you guys that are plowing snow and using the steering brakes, how do you handle this when you plow with a pickup truck?

Do you run in to the same issues with getting traction and control of the front of the pickup? How do you adjust for that?

 

[Hematite]

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

Aside from using the split brakes, I learned, yesterday, that the hydro pedals on one side and the brakes on the other can be essential, as you described. I was helping a neighbor clear some HUGE slices of tree trunk and small stumps. I had to approach going uphill and the second I released the hydro pedal, the tractor slowly started backwards. By using the brakes on the left and the hydro on the right I was able to have incredible control holding the tractor and being able to slooowly inch forward precisely and under control. A good thing because I had a helper on the ground. Needless to say, I was delighted to have the controls on seperate sides.:thumbsup:

 

[Redneck in training]

My tractor has three break pedals. The split are on the left and third acting on both left pedals is on the right just by the HST pedals. Since my tractor is HST so I use breaks mostly for parking and only once a while for steering.

 

[TripleR]

My tractor has three break pedals. The split are on the left and third acting on both left pedals is on the right just by the HST pedals. Since my tractor is HST so I use breaks mostly for parking and only once a while for steering.

Redneck in Training, I love your tag line only I have to so out the back door except at night.

The controls on your tractor sounds like a really good set up. Does it have a clutch?

 

[John Clark]

Let's see if I understand this. You can roll your body and move your left foot over to the right and press on the left pedal above your right foot on the HST treadle.

No need to roll your body- the Kubota has a flat floor and you are talking less then two feet. Life is a compromise - get over it... and yes although I'm over 60 I can still put my left foot over my right, albeit I have learned to plan better and very seldom find a need to.

 

[SPYDERLK]

When you are in a real touchy situation... like side of a hill next to a fence and some compromised traction mixed in, you really need full simultaneous control of brakes and wheel torque from zero to give you the best chance. An hst with proper ergonomic setup can present you all the advantage options. - - The second sentence in the quote tells me you havnt used your tractor enuf in demanding and unpredictable circumstances to force you to discover the advantage offered by a well integrated system in contrast to one that just makes the wheels turn. The problem that those who "dont ever need them" will find when they do, is a delayed or absent recognition of the need and a lack of practice in application. Now combine that with a control setup that makes the necessary contol action very difficult ....:tractor:
larry

That was well stated Spyder.
Amazing what one has to give up or do, to make up for the design bleeps of a mfg. But that is what competition is all about.
I use the split brakes (on the left) less with 4wd than I did with the 2wd, but could not function in tight situations that are mentioned without easily accessible split brakes.
No requirement to lock them, as a single brake pedal for both wheels is also located on the right just above the HST pedals.

I hope I misunderstood this post as it sounds as though you believe that I am either stupid, inexperienced or both with maybe a little na?et thrown in.

I grew up on a farm and have driven a tractor for over fifty years. I have used 2WD as well as 4WD, geared and HST. I have operated equipment in conditions as you describe and I prefer diff lock as opposed to split brakes as this works better for my tractors. Having used split brakes most of my life farming, it was kind of hard to adjust to the limited utility on my newer tractors and it took quite a while to adapt. If split brakes work better for you and your tractor then fine, but don稚 assume that I don稚 is the result of inexperience or ignorance.

At my age the 電emanding and unpredictable situations no longer apply as I have learned enough not to get myself or equipment into such a situation. I also know that in an *npredictable situation, I am going to react instinctively and since seven of the tractors I operate have right foot brakes, that is where I am going to put my foot.

TripleR, Im sorry. I did not mean to insult you in any way...merely to bring up things that you may not have experienced or considered. Now youve given me information that suggests that you have more experience than I. It embarrasses me to be in a position where I am compelled to tell someone something they should know, but for some reason dont seem to. With my limited experience I know for a fact that every tractor operator will benefit from split brakes. This benefit will come in extremely varied and frequent circumstances to those who really know how to use them. The situations of benefit will not be restricted to unpredictable terrain or transient traction conditions, but will present potential benefit it every situation of direction control or traction control. In some of these cases they will be essential to enable efficient work w/o excess maneuvering. In others they will prevent embarrassment or death. These benefits will of course accrue only to those who dont have no need for them and, hence, use them enuf to develop skill. And its up to you to develop the skill -- its a poor mans traction/direction control, unlike the virtually identical application of the same idea under computer control in high end cars. Back in the early 80s when antilock brakes were just coming on I made this mental link about selective control and talked to a bunch of guys at a business dinner about it. We hoped the car company gurus would do it cuz we sure didnt have the wherewithall. Well, they have to an extent. Nothing you cant do with your feet at tractor speed, assuming your tractor does not tangle them up.

With your experience Im surprised you would introduce differential lock without mentioning the fundamental difference of action and performance result between them and split brakes. All a DL does is get both rears turning at the same speed. This gives more push but inhibits maneuverability - it wants to go straight. Split brakes can stop or inhibit rotation of a selected wheel, shifting torque to the other wheel. In this way any traction that the braked wheel has can be used to favor turning the tractor to that side. With skillful application the selective brake can give the full traction benefit of a DL, but while turning and aiding the turn. The only disadvantage is the waste of some power while doing this. A few drops more fuel is used along with a little brake lining. A bargain.
larry

 

[TripleR]

Spyderlyk,

There is a line in Quiggly Down Under if you are familiar with it in which Quiggly shoots his antagonist with a revolver. He essentially said, I didn't say I don't know how to use it, I said I never had much use for one.

I have stated previously that I used and benefited from split brakes while farming and if I ever use one of my tractors that react well to their use and conditions dictate, I will use them again.

The tractors and operations for which I use them now do not dictate their use. If conditions change, I will change how I operate my equipment. I do what works best for me and my equipment after trying different approaches/methods.

You apologize in words only and not intent as you continue to be condescending in your posts which I find personally distasteful..

 

[John Clark]

To TripleR

You are a class act:thumbsup:

It's hard to have been-there and done-that, yet called stupid by those who have never been there. Such is life.:laughing: