Hydro's and brake pedals

[RobertN]

Yes, I priced them for my Kubota. Factory, and having a local shop build one up. $$$$$$
Even when I built my own, I had $400+ in to it. That was 9 years ago.

I can understand the response at the AG show. If I were plowing/discing fields, probably would not be important. Single setup works for acres and acres of field.

I'm thinking more along the lines of SCUTS, CUTS, and smaller utilities. Heck, even Bobcat offers a package for skidsteers(still $$$$$)...

Robert, I agree, I can not see how anybody can get any type of grading done without them. That is why I have "TnT" on both of my Mahindras. But until I see them being as popular as box blades, I do not see them being offered from all the tractor manufacturers. I believe that JD and Kubota have their own sets as an option, and from what I have seen they are 2-3 times more $$$$ than an aftermarket set.

I just don't see them ever being standard on most tractors. When I go to the AG shows, I have asked some of the people there about them, most don't even know what I'm talking about and I have to explain what they are and what the purpose is. My thinking would be that they become a more common thing and dealers offer them instead of having to be asked about them.

 

[RobertN]

Skidsteer bucket. They are shaped different than "typical tractor" buckets though.

I've worked 60HP Bobcat and CAT SS and CTL. They are very capable of digging. My experience is only with 35hp and smaller utilities(Kubota L35) and CUT's. Similar sized skidsteers and compact track loaders will easily outdig a similar HP tractor. That is probably why the tractors have a lighter construction bucket. That is alos why they call it a loader, not a digger.

I have bent the top/back of the bucket on my little CUT. More dinged it up. In my case, a heavier duty bucket would really limit loader, since it only lifts 650lbs with bucket it has.

The buckets on my buddies 56hp Bobcat SS is built like a tank.

ok how about a standard issue bucket on a 60 hp tractor thats not a piece of **** . it kinda rediculous to have to by a heavy duty bucket just to have something that the tractor wont totally destroy.

 

[MossRoad]

Loaders aren't excavators, although we all tend to use them like they are. That's one of the reasons I have two buckets. One is a large, light material bucket and the other is half the size with teeth and a lot beefier.

Man, this thread has drifted.

 

[Denwa]

JB
I see no problem driving an auto tranny and using left foot for the brake. Whether it is on at the same time as accelerating, that is just an issue of skill. No offence that a traffic officer needs to be concerned about - IMO Seems officers have bigger fish to worry about, besides wearing car brake pads out faster.

This is an interesting thread.

Interesting indeed! I'm new to the list and w/ every thread I poke around in, the more I'm learning. Invaluable resource for any tractoristi, I'd say.

To address your statement above, which is actually kind of off topic, the reason it's not a good practice to brake w/ the left foot is that in a panic
impact (stop) situation, the tendency of human reactions it to straighten
ALL extremities, arms and legs, to fend off the perceived oncoming object.

If one has a foot on both pedals, then it becomes a contest as to which
force will be able to overcome the other. When you want to stop ASAP,
and with the best control, only stepping on the brake pedal would obviously
work more effectively. If your "muscle memory" is tuned to one foot operations, then it's one or the other, not both at the same time. In a "panic" situation one tends to do what one is used to doing.

But, as you say, it could boil down to a matter of skill (practice). But, hopefully your granny didn't have that much practice w/ "panic" stops.

BTW, I'm a driving instructor.


Regards,
Dennis

 

[patrick_g]

...the reason it's not a good practice to brake w/ the left foot is that in a panic impact (stop) situation, the tendency of human reactions it to straighten
ALL extremities, arms and legs, to fend off the perceived oncoming object.

If one has a foot on both pedals, then it becomes a contest as to which
force will be able to overcome the other. When you want to stop ASAP,
and with the best control, only stepping on the brake pedal would obviously
work more effectively. If your "muscle memory" is tuned to one foot operations, then it's one or the other, not both at the same time. In a "panic" situation one tends to do what one is used to doing.

But, as you say, it could boil down to a matter of skill (practice). But, hopefully your granny didn't have that much practice w/ "panic" stops.

BTW, I'm a driving instructor.


Regards,
Dennis

AMEN, Dennis. During my last several years before retirement I was the co-leader of a 30 person team developing instructional materials (computer based and paper based) for Naval warfighting systems. One of the military mantras in training is "You fight like you train." Whatever way you train and drill is what you do when the balloon goes up.

If you drive a stick shift you will develop an engram that predisposes you to pushing the clutch with your left foot and transferring your right foot from accelerator to brake. If you also drive an automatic you are better off staying with the right foot as the braking foot. With your right foot trained to go to the brake it is less likely you will screw up and create your own unintended acceleration event.

In some circles the jury is still out regarding the use of the left foot for brakes with "automatic only" drivers. Some say it cuts reaction time because your left foot can be prepositioned. A little brake wear is no big deal unless you are a clod that rides the brake pedal, cruising down the interstate with your brake light intermittently flaring. A real consideration is what Dennis brought up. In a panic situation, when it really counts if your right foot is not trained to go to the brake pedal will you press the accelerator as well, quite likely.

Lots of unintended acceleration events are totally operator error and NOT a fault of the hardware. People tend to press a pedal and if they don't get what they want they press it harder. If by accident someone presses on the gas instead of the brake there is a decent chance they, not getting the intended result, will press the pedal harder. This very series of events has launched quite a few cars over the side walk into store fronts long before anyone started the blame game.

A humorous (looking back but scary at the time) event is pulling your vehicle up to stop headed up hill in traffic. Suddenly you perceive your car rolling backwards a little so you step on the brake to hold it still on the hill but it doesn't help so you push harder and then way harder and you begin to panic until you realize you never went backwards, just the car(s) beside you crept forward a little and you perceived it as you going backwards. This is a common experience.

I still recall my dad transitioning from stick to automatic. He got the Studebaker President going in drive and then his previous training took over while his conscious mind was distracted.. He hit the sensitive power brakes with his left foot (expecting it to be a clutch) while shoving the gear selector into 2nd gear (actually Park!) Sans seatbelts in the 1956 sedan I hit the dash a little bit from the passenger side of the bench seat. No harm no foul, I wasn't injured.

Pat

 

[Egon]

I hit the dash a little bit from the passenger side of the bench seat

Now we know what happened!:laughing:

 

[JB4310]

I believe brakes would/should overcome accelerator in almost every situation.
At least with every machine I've ever owned that's been the case

Unless of course it's a Toyota

JB.

 

[FritzII]

I have gained a lot of experience with my "New" tractor since we've been getting a lot of snow. I have discovered that the heavier tractor, that I now have, doesn't require cutting brakes as much as my smaller tractor did. I still have an occasional need for them though.

I had an interesting call from a buddy in Michigan that just built a new house. For the last several years he had been cutting grass only with his tractor. This is the 1st winter at the new house. He called me to tell me that he discovered that the tractor will now go straight when plowing if he uses the individual brakes. This was the 1st time that he needed them and was really happy that he had split brakes.

I try not to touch the brakes at all with my hydro, but it's nice to have them now when I need'em !!!

 

[TripleR]

I don't dislike the left foot brake on my John Deere 2305, I HATE it. About everything in the known universe uses right foot braking. Even my JD 425 has the brake on the right. Fortunately I only use the brake as a parking brake. Most people I know don't use their split brakes and would hate to see something changed to accommodate a few people that will inconvenience so many more. Heck, it ain't that hard, I drive tractors geared and HST using only one leg.

 

[FritzII]

I don't dislike the left foot brake on my John Deere 2305, I HATE it. About everything in the known universe uses right foot braking. Even my JD 425 has the brake on the right. Fortunately I only use the brake as a parking brake. Most people I know don't use their split brakes and would hate to see something changed to accommodate a few people that will inconvenience so many more. Heck, it ain't that hard, I drive tractors geared and HST using only one leg.

It must have something to do with where your from and the type of terrain you have. Everyone around here uses and wants split brakes. ( Except for homeowners using them for grass cutting and general property cleanup. )

 

[beenthere]

I don't dislike the left foot brake on my John Deere 2305, I HATE it. .........QUOTE]

Someday you will find a task where individual brakes are needed, and using them with the left foot is not a big feat to learn. In the meantime, just ignore them as you don't need them.

 

[TripleR]

I don't dislike the left foot brake on my John Deere 2305, I HATE it. .........QUOTE]

Someday you will find a task where individual brakes are needed, and using them with the left foot is not a big feat to learn. In the meantime, just ignore them as you don't need them.

Actually I will never have occasion to use split brakes. When I was farming, I used split brakes to turn with, but I quit farming a long time ago. I haven't used split brakes in the last twenty years and don't think I will make it twenty more.

I just think the benefit of split brakes are something most operators never need.

I don't have much use of my left leg, so I am used to using my right for clutching and such though I am at a severe disadvantage in a butt kicking contest:laughing:

 

[TripleR]

It must have something to do with where your from and the type of terrain you have. Everyone around here uses and wants split brakes. ( Except for homeowners using them for grass cutting and general property cleanup. )

It could be as most of the people I know are farmers running really big machines that really aren't affected much by using split brakes. Our land is a combination of flat land and hills. I regularly use three geared tractors with split brakes, but one is an older Case and if you have ever driven one you will know "brakes" are a relative term on them. My other two tractors are 70 and 80 horse and using split brakes to turn just tears up the ground and doesn't materially affect the turning radius. I grew up farming and have driven tractors for over fifty years, so while not an expert by any means, I have some experience using tractors for a variety of uses on different terrain.

That being said, I continue to learn and will hopefully continue until lights out.

 

[Egon]

["brakes" are a relative term on them. /QUOTE]

Ah yes, the quality/or lack thereof of the brakes on some of the older tractors.

As I can recall from the past the split brakes were useful on the smaller tractors but the larger ones didn't respond too well.

 

[RobertN]

I just got my NH TC40. It has brakes on the left. But it has power steering and Supersteer. Not sure how useful those cutting brakes would be; this thing turns incredibly tight.

I know folks have mentioned using the cutting brakes while plowing snow. I do not understand how it helps if you are already in 4WD. Guess it is something you just have to expierience...

 

[patrick_g]

I believe brakes would/should overcome accelerator in almost every situation.
At least with every machine I've ever owned that's been the case

Unless of course it's a Toyota

JB.

With the brakes of my Ram-Cummins 3500 in good working order at say 55 MPH there is no amount of brake pedal pressure that will stop the truck if you give it full throttle.

I have been there and done that and it was exhilarating but not really a good thing. I was on cruise control at 65 and cruise put it to WOT, refused to shut down with the cruise off switch or brake application and the brakes couldn't stop it from maintaining and accelerating. Had to shut off the key switch and suffer loss of power steering and power brakes.

Pat

 

[Egon]

I know folks have mentioned using the cutting brakes while plowing snow. I do not understand how it helps if you are already in 4WD. Guess it is something you just have to expierience...

Both front wheels off the ground peeling off the ice.

 

[patrick_g]

Both front wheels off the ground peeling off the ice.

I am one of those on the, "Cuttin' brakes, We don't need no stinking cuttin' brakes!!!" side of the argument BUT... when back dragging with the FEL bucket you have reduced traction on the front tires (or the tires are totally in the air) and being able to steer a bit with the cutting brakes while backing could be a good thing. I don't typically do it but it could be quite useful. OK, I confess, since the brakes and HST pedal are on the same side it is a bit awkward BUT I CAN DO IT!

Pat

 

[TripleR]

["brakes" are a relative term on them. /QUOTE]

Ah yes, the quality/or lack thereof of the brakes on some of the older tractors.

As I can recall from the past the split brakes were useful on the smaller tractors but the larger ones didn't respond too well.

When I grew up, we farmed with the 600-800 series Fords and when you got to the end of the row, you hit the brake and you could literally make a ninety degree or one eighty depending on your task. I saw an 861 at a dealer not long ago and didn't ask the price as I knew I might have to buy it; you can see I "need" another tractor

 

[Egon]

Heck Pat, I just use whatever I've got to the best of my limited ability!:laughing: