2011 Superduty Specs Announced

[thompsjk]

I didn't list the exemptions to a CDL, in order to keep my post short, but here goes.....

Exemptions from CDL Requirements
Even if your vehicle is a commercial vehicle according to the definition above, you may qualify for one of the CDL exemptions. There are four categories of CDL exemptions.

Recreational vehicle exemption - applies to drivers of vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for nonbusiness or recreational purposes.

Military vehicle exemption - applies to military vehicle operators who are considered active-duty military personnel and to civilians who are required to wear uniforms and are subject to the Code of Military Justice.

Emergency vehicle exemption - applies to drivers of fire fighting or other emergency equipment used in response to emergencies involving the preservation of life or property.

Farm vehicle exemption - applies to drivers of farm vehicles, including family members and farm hands, under certain conditions only. The farm exemption applies to drivers of farm vehicles which are:

1. Controlled and operated by the farmer,

2. Used to transport agricultural products, supplies, and machinery to or from a farm,

3. Not used in common or contract carrier operations, and

4. Not driven more than 150 miles ("as the crow flies") from the farm.

The farm exemption is intended for small farm-to-market operations only. It does not extend beyond the boundaries of Idaho with exception of Wyoming, Oregon, and Montana. It does not include farmers who are transporting other farmers' products if they are receiving any compensation for the services.

The RV exemption is what allowed me to pull my 21k GVWR fifth wheel with a IH 4400 that has a 25,999 GVWR. Idaho doesn't include the RV in the GCWR. I also found out there isn't a provision for an air brake endorsement on a non-CDL license.(in Idaho)

What was the definition above?

The way I read it is if the vehicle is not commercial a CDL is not needed regardless of the GCVWR.:confused2:

 

[RobertN]

I think it is a step like Dodge did. I would take their old V10 over a modern Hemi. Have a very good friend that tows a 34' 5th wheel with one. Nice for a gasser.

I would take the Dodge V10 over the Ford if they still made them though...

My V10 will eat that Hemi for lunch.... Oh that was the other thread....sorry.:laughing:

I agree though, Ford is taking a step backwards by replacing the V10 with this thing. It may turn out to be a great engine, but still a step back to me.

 

[Dmace]

GCWR for CDL purposes has alway been GVWR+GVWR.

This is what I'm talking about, it's not what your actual load is that determines CDL requirements, it's the legal load the vehicle is capable of. So if you have a new F-350 4x4 DRW with a GVWR of 13,000lbs then you can only haul a trailer rated at 13,000lbs or less without a CDL. Even if the truck and trailer are EMPTY, you can not have a larger trailer without a CDL.

 

[Duffster]

This is what I'm talking about, it's not what your actual load is that determines CDL requirements, it's the legal load the vehicle is capable of. So if you have a new F-350 4x4 DRW with a GVWR of 13,000lbs then you can only haul a trailer rated at 13,000lbs or less without a CDL. Even if the truck and trailer are EMPTY, you can not have a larger trailer without a CDL.

So what is different from previous years?

As long as GVWR has been over 12k it would put a common 14k trailer into CDL territory.

 

[JB4310]

So what is different from previous years?

As long as GVWR has been over 12k it would put a common 14k trailer into CDL territory.

What's different is, some of these new super duper duties have GCWR's of over 26000 lbs. only the diesels with the lower gear ratios, but those are the majority of their line up.

Idaho's Commercial Driver's License (CDL) Program is designed to improve safety on our highways while meeting federal requirements for testing and licensing of all commercial drivers. You must have a CDL to operate any of the following commercial vehicles:

1. Combination vehicle with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided that the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the towed unit is greater than 10,000 pounds,

According to DOT regulations already linked to or quoted here, if the trucks GCWR is higher than 26000 lbs then regardless of the trucks GVWR, 10,000 is the limit for trailer before CDL required.
So no it's not GVWR + GVWR

So using those regs and specs, a 2011 F350 SD w/DRW, diesel engine and 3.73 gears has a GCWR of 29,000lbs. so that means even with the truck at curb weight (aprx 8500lbs) you couldn't couple a trailer rated 10,001 pounds to it without a CDL?
I know it sounds so stupid that it can't be true, but that's how I'm interpreting what I'm reading.

You can get the F-350's GCWR under 26000 by going with highway gears in the diesel or go with the gas engine

That's the crux of what I stated in my previous post #34 and should answer those questions you asked me in you reply #36
Not 100% sure they're the right answers but...

EDIT: The more I look at #1 in 77bronco's quote I must be misinterpreting combination vehicle to mean just the tow vehicle. It must refer to both the tow vehicle and the trailer???? Sorry

JB.

 

[Dmace]

So what is different from previous years?

As long as GVWR has been over 12k it would put a common 14k trailer into CDL territory.

The difference is those trucks previously never had GCWR's over 26k lbs. I'm sure it varies from state to state, but around here if you are driving a truck with a rated GCWR of over 26k lbs then you need a CDL, period. Even if you are just driving the truck with nothing attached. That is why the other truck manufacturers limit their GCWR's to exactly 26k lbs. Try driving around a big rig tractor with no trailer attached and when you get pulled over with no CDL, tell them you only need it when the trailer is attached. I'm sure they will understand...

 

[Duffster]

What's different is, some of these new super duper duties have GCWR's of over 26000 lbs. only the diesels with the lower gear ratios, but those are the majority of their line up.



According to DOT regulations already linked to or quoted here, if the trucks GCWR is higher than 26000 lbs then regardless of the trucks GVWR, 10,000 is the limit for trailer before CDL required.
So no it's not GVWR + GVWR

So using those regs and specs, a 2011 F350 SD w/DRW, diesel engine and 3.73 gears has a GCWR of 29,000lbs. so that means even with the truck at curb weight (aprx 8500lbs) you couldn't couple a trailer rated 10,001 pounds to it without a CDL?
I know it sounds so stupid that it can't be true, but that's how I'm interpreting what I'm reading.

You can get the F-350's GCWR under 26000 by going with highway gears in the diesel or go with the gas engine

That's the crux of what I stated in my previous post #34 and should answer those questions you asked me in you reply #36
Not 100% sure they're the right answers but...

EDIT: The more I look at #1 in 77bronco's quote I must be misinterpreting combination vehicle to mean just the tow vehicle. It must refer to both the tow vehicle and the trailer???? Sorry

JB.

I think I see where you were coming from now.

And I think you seeing what i mean when they talk about GCWR for figuring the need for a CDL, GCWR= GVWR + GVWR. It really should be called CGVWR.

The GCWR listed in the truck specs has no bearing on the need of a CDL.

 

[Duffster]

The difference is those trucks previously never had GCWR's over 26k lbs. I'm sure it varies from state to state, but around here if you are driving a truck with a rated GCWR of over 26k lbs then you need a CDL, period. Even if you are just driving the truck with nothing attached. That is why the other truck manufacturers limit their GCWR's to exactly 26k lbs. Try driving around a big rig tractor with no trailer attached and when you get pulled over with no CDL, tell them you only need it when the trailer is attached. I'm sure they will understand...

That doesn't make sense Dmace, you can specifically drive a truck with a GVWR of 26000 without a CDL and a truck with a GVWR would certainly have a GCWR higher than 26k.

 

[Dmace]

That doesn't make sense Dmace, you can specifically drive a truck with a GVWR of 26000 without a CDL and a truck with a GVWR would certainly have a GCWR higher than 26k.

That's the way it is, yeah you can drive a truck with a GVWR of up to 26k lbs without a CDL but the GCWR of that truck cannot be over 26k lbs either. Neither number can be over that magic number. This is so you can drive something like a flat bed tow truck with a GVWR of 26k lbs but the GCWR is also 26k lbs so you cannot tow more then 26k minus the truck weight.

I will post this link again and quote it for you:
Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.

The vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds

Pay close attention to the word OR which I highlighted in red for you. Does it make sense yet...?

 

[dieselfreak]

I am glad to see they did not compromise anything and are able to still be at the head of the pack.

Chris

GM has not released any details in the new DMAX yet. So don't be in a hurry to hand a crown to Ford. I see no more 6 speed manual, which kinda surprised me, now Just Dodge left with the hand shaker.

df

 

[Diamondpilot]

GM has not released any details in the new DMAX yet. So don't be in a hurry to hand a crown to Ford. I see no more 6 speed manual, which kinda surprised me, now Just Dodge left with the hand shaker.

df

The dmax numbers were released about a month ago. They made improvements but still are not up to par and they keep that Independent Front Suspension. Its the most capable GM truck ever and they did address some issues with the brakes and chassis but its still second or third fiddle. Either way they will not sell anything close to Ford with all the Government involvement and financial trouble they are in.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks...t-silverado-heavy-duty-first-look-part-1.html

Chris

 

[Duffster]

That's the way it is, yeah you can drive a truck with a GVWR of up to 26k lbs without a CDL but the GCWR of that truck cannot be over 26k lbs either. Neither number can be over that magic number. This is so you can drive something like a flat bed tow truck with a GVWR of 26k lbs but the GCWR is also 26k lbs so you cannot tow more then 26k minus the truck weight.

I will post this link again and quote it for you:
Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.
Pay close attention to the word OR which I highlighted in red for you. Does it make sense yet...?

You're talking out both sides of your mouth.:confused2:

 

[Lt CHEG]

The difference is those trucks previously never had GCWR's over 26k lbs. I'm sure it varies from state to state, but around here if you are driving a truck with a rated GCWR of over 26k lbs then you need a CDL, period. Even if you are just driving the truck with nothing attached. That is why the other truck manufacturers limit their GCWR's to exactly 26k lbs. Try driving around a big rig tractor with no trailer attached and when you get pulled over with no CDL, tell them you only need it when the trailer is attached. I'm sure they will understand...

Technically you could drive just the truck with nothing attached with only a B CDL, even though you would need an A CDL to drive the truck and trailer.

 

[Lt CHEG]

That's the way it is, yeah you can drive a truck with a GVWR of up to 26k lbs without a CDL but the GCWR of that truck cannot be over 26k lbs either. Neither number can be over that magic number. This is so you can drive something like a flat bed tow truck with a GVWR of 26k lbs but the GCWR is also 26k lbs so you cannot tow more then 26k minus the truck weight.

I will post this link again and quote it for you:
Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.
Pay close attention to the word OR which I highlighted in red for you. Does it make sense yet...?

I think that the simplest way to clarify this would be just to say this. If you don't have anything attached to the truck, the GCWR means nothing as long as the GVWR is under 26,000 pounds. The GCWR rating only applies if you are towing something. So although towing something with one of these new Fords is somewhat nebulous, uncharted territory, it is clear that you don't need to have a CDL just to drive one of these new Fords with an over 26,000 pound GCWR if you aren't towing anything since the GVWR is less than 26,000 pounds.

Also as a side note, I have been in investigations and out of uniform for a few years now but I asked an officer I know that does Commercial Vehicle Enforcement full time and he feels the same way that I do on the topic of not needing to have a CDL in order to drive one of these new trucks as long as you aren't towing anything.

 

[Dmace]

Technically you could drive just the truck with nothing attached with only a B CDL, even though you would need an A CDL to drive the truck and trailer.

Exactly, even though the trucks GVWR is below 26k the fact that the GCWR is over 26k you still need a CDL to drive it. Even without a trailer attached.

I think that the simplest way to clarify this would be just to say this. If you don't have anything attached to the truck, the GCWR means nothing as long as the GVWR is under 26,000 pounds. The GCWR rating only applies if you are towing something.

This is exactly what I thought too but was told otherwise by Highway Patrol. If a vehicle has a GCWR of 26,001lbs or more then you need a CDL to operate it. It DOES NOT matter if you have a trailer connected to it or not, all that matters is what the vehicle is registered to legally carry.

There is no need for a 1-ton truck to have such a high GCWR, it's just Ford's way of playing the numbers game making people think their trucks are better because of a higher tow capacity even though the majority of truck buyers cannot legally tow that much anyways. If you need to tow that much, get a class 4 or 5 truck like the F-450/F-550. Like I said, what's the point of a 1-ton truck that you need a CDL to drive...

 

[Lt CHEG]

This is exactly what I thought too but was told otherwise by Highway Patrol. If a vehicle has a GCWR of 26,001lbs or more then you need a CDL to operate it. It DOES NOT matter if you have a trailer connected to it or not, all that matters is what the vehicle is registered to legally carry.

There is no need for a 1-ton truck to have such a high GCWR, it's just Ford's way of playing the numbers game making people think their trucks are better because of a higher tow capacity even though the majority of truck buyers cannot legally tow that much anyways. If you need to tow that much, get a class 4 or 5 truck like the F-450/F-550. Like I said, what's the point of a 1-ton truck that you need a CDL to drive...

Well one of the guys I work with used to be a local cop in NH and he tells me about a bunch of legal things that NH does differently than the rest of the US. I suppose it is possible that NH has a more restrictive law than the rest of the US. I do know that in NY, the law is as I explained it in my previous post. The trooper that gave me that information explained that since commercial vehicle enforcement is essentially a federal program that it should be the same way throughout the US. As i said, I've been an investigator for a few years now so I rely upon commercial vehicle guys for this type of information instead of my own knowledge, but I tend to trust this guy as an expert in his field. I guess maybe things are just a little more restrictive in NH.

 

[Duffster]

Like I said, what's the point of a 1-ton truck that you need a CDL to drive...

That is the point, you don't.........

 

[JB4310]

Oh man, My head is spinning, is there an emoticon for that?

Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.


If you go by (a) from this link, it appears you would need a CDL just to drive a truck with a 26+K GCWR. doesn't even say anything about a trailer involved.

I've got a phone number for a top dot commercial truck enforcement officer for CT, I've called him before when these spirited legal debates have come up, I'll see what he says.

Can't imagine getting pulled over in your pick up and asked for your CDL and driver logs?

JB.

 

[Duffster]

This should help.

 

[dieselfreak]

The dmax numbers were released about a month ago. They made improvements but still are not up to par and they keep that Independent Front Suspension. Its the most capable GM truck ever and they did address some issues with the brakes and chassis but its still second or third fiddle. Either way they will not sell anything close to Ford with all the Government involvement and financial trouble they are in.

2010 Chicago Auto Show: 2011 Chevrolet Silverado Heavy Duty First Look, Part 1 - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports

Chris

The Power specs HAVE NOT been released yet.

GM will hold thier own. How fast people forget that Ford was almost in line with the rest, only thing that saved them was multiple equity swaps.

IFS is not inferior in anyway to the SFA. What is the weak link in the SFA ?? Ball joints, and it is only as storng as them.