Copying Bseries loader feasible?

[ericher69]

Don't know if anyone out there has tried this but would it be feasible to "copy" the kubota Bseries loader??

At $4000.00plus from the dealer I do not plan to spend this $$ as I could use it other places ...but would really like a FEL

I have a coworker that has the same machine with FEL and was thinking of copying this loader to the millimeter.

I do not want an aftermarket loader and do not plan on buying P.F. engineering plans.

Let me know

 

[kennyd]

Don't know if anyone out there has tried this but would it be feasible to "copy" the kubota Bseries loader??

At $4000.00plus from the dealer I do not plan to spend this $$ as I could use it other places ...but would really like a FEL

I have a coworker that has the same machine with FEL and was thinking of copying this loader to the millimeter.

I do not want an aftermarket loader and do not plan on buying P.F. engineering plans.

Let me know

Go for it! But wouldn't your home-built FEL be considered "aftermarket" also?

 

[David Devuono]

I sort of copied the B-series idea of a single dump cylinder if that is the one you are talking about. Cost about 1,500 to build.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am just wondering how much you can save?

Valve $350
Cylinders $500
Hoses $300
Nuts and bolts sleeves bushings zerks $150
Steel $500
Paint ect $100

From my calculations you would have about 2 grand in the supplies. Yes, this is a savings but it will take a lot of time and work.

It can be done and will be a fun project but think it out first and get a good shopping list.

Chris

 

[Kernopelli]

I am just wondering how much you can save?

Valve $350
Cylinders $500
Hoses $300
Nuts and bolts sleeves bushings zerks $150
Steel $500
Paint ect $100

From my calculations you would have about 2 grand in the supplies. Yes, this is a savings but it will take a lot of time and work.

It can be done and will be a fun project but think it out first and get a good shopping list.

Chris

I think your calculations are generally correct, I certainly won't argue that you could spend that on those items. I was able to build mine for much less though ( for a loader larger than a B series type). I purchased the metal from the local scrap yard for $0.25/lb. The cylinders and control valve were (mostly) various new old stock items I purchased off ebay. I will admit that I watched many auctions and waited patiently to find the best deals I could but ended up with about $275 in those item including shipping. The control valve was a New Holland unit with bracket, fittings and quick connect set up that retailed for about $700, the tilt cylinders were new ( I had to cut down and reweld them) but were only about $50/pair. The lift cylinders were good used but only about $75/pair. I bought all of my hoses, fittings, zerks, pins, bushings and paint at Rural King farm supply store. I really don't have an "exact to the penny" figure on everything but I feel comfortable in saying that I have about $600 in everything I have spent on it including welding and cutting consumables. I will emphasise that it took close to a year to collect everything I needed to build it so that was a lot of patient auction watching and several trips to the salvage yard but I like to do that anyway so it was not a real burden for me and was really a part of the "challenge".

I think that anyone with decent welding skills and basic cutting tools can tackle this job. It may seem a little intimidating but it really isn't that difficult and as they say, " Rome wasn't built in a day"....start with a plan and begin making it piece-by-piece. Before too long you've got something that is coming together and you realize this is something you really can do yourself. A couple of months of weekends in the garage/shop and you've got it whipped.

 

[ericher69]

Thanks for the replies;

I know that the US version of the same Canadian loader costs $1000.00 less.

So I would be down to $3000 plus exchange.

Will probably attempt since I really enjoy welding and fabricating.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Do you ever plan on upgrading/trading/selling your current machine? I only ask because from a resale point of view a loader (especially a factory loader) is a critical piece of the puzzle....

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I really enjoy welding and fabricating.

Go for it! Absolutely!

Plans would be nice to help out with some of the geometry, but not necessary.

I'm working on a backhoe, and I've stopped a number of times after hours at rental yards to take measurements and get ideas.

 

[ericher69]

Spudland Dave,

Yes a factory loader is nice but what I am talking about is basically an identical copy or an L364 loader. Stickers and all.

I would tell people that I did copy and build it but nobody would know the diffence unless they asked

 

[RoyBrooks]

I would look at selling the tractor and finding one with a loader first, if the costs were comparable. I traded my b6200 for a b7500 and the cost difference was well worth it to me, lower hours on the b7500,larger loader, power steering, more horsepower , 12 years newer and larger 3pth cap.

 

[/pine]

Hoses $300

I think that's a little high by 1/3...
I just bought a complete new set of Kubota loader hoses for $50 on the popular auction site...

Even if you include QDs, hoses and lines should not be more than $200

 

[RoyBrooks]

We're in Canada and get screwed on most parts, so 1/3 more is probably a little low. I was quoted $373 cdn for a bracket I bought out of the states for $119.

 

[joes_427_vette]

Do you ever plan on upgrading/trading/selling your current machine? I only ask because from a resale point of view a loader (especially a factory loader) is a critical piece of the puzzle....

Don't know how many hp a B series Kubota is but if it is in the 25 hp range you certainly shouldn't have to spend 2k on components. Mine was 850 complete including tube lines, fittings, cylinders,fittings, and hoses. The machine had the control so no cost there. The steel was less than 200, cylinders 69 each and 40 for freight. 3' hoses were 8 dollars, others were 6. Tube lines with fittings almost 50 and add the adaptors, couplers, some of which I had in stock. I even figured some for mig wire, grinding discs, paint and primer.
Course when you add my $1.50 per hour labor the price goes over the hill.
I don't see a problem with resale when your talking a home fabed loader. All the punishment it gets in the first three or so years... if it don't stand up it gets re-engineered. Besides your not getting full price of a factory loader from anyone so they wouldn't even be paying the materials cost for it. At that rate who wouldn't take the chance. Buy some thirty dollar decals if it makes you feel better or have some custom ones made up.
When you think about it how much do you use a loader ? If it is that much you would have one on a 50+ hp machine for clearing a large number of acres.
If I had it to do over I would have ordered the TC 55DA without the loader and stuck the 4k in materials. That loader minus heavier stock isn't any different than the small scale unit I built. Ten years from now at sale time price...... not decals will be the major consideration. The " major part of the puzzle " to me is the four wheel drive system coupled to the diesel engine and hydraulics..... being a brand name with parts availability, not two beams and cylinders connected to a bucket.

 

[/pine]

About the only stuff I buy from brick & mortar establishments is fittings and sometimes a hose in a pinch...otherwise I order everything either via the Internet or catalog/telephone... (most of the time no sales tax )

 

[Spudland_Dave]

If I had it to do over I would have ordered the TC 55DA without the loader and stuck the 4k in materials. That loader minus heavier stock isn't any different than the small scale unit I built. Ten years from now at sale time price...... not decals will be the major consideration. The " major part of the puzzle " to me is the four wheel drive system coupled to the diesel engine and hydraulics..... being a brand name with parts availability, not two beams and cylinders connected to a bucket.

Well...Real world example....shortly after I got my 3520, my FIL debated upgrading his 955 to a 3320/3520 machine....trade in value of his 955 with no loader was 4500.00, WITH a loader the same tractor was worth 10k.... So for giggles, we priced out a 300x loader and necessary mounts, and that came to about 4500 bucks...He could buy a 300x loader, install it himself and instantly trade it in and be ahead of the game.

From a liability point of view, I bet a dealer wouldnt even take a homemade loader in on trade...

So to answer your question, from my point of view...if I wanted a machine with no loader, I'd buy the tractor/loader combo and stuff the loader out back under a tarp...knowing full well I'll get my money back down the road.

I love building my own stuff...but a loader isnt something I'd do..only from a resale point of view.....heck I see machines with aftermarket loaders going for less then the same machine with an OEM loader.

 

[joes_427_vette]

All I have to do is increase my hydraulic pressure five hundred pounds, lift a stump on one side of the bucket.... and instant twisted junk ( no matter whose name is on the side ) 25 hp and down.. why would you trade it to a dealer and get zip in the first place. Farmers in rich communities buy everything new. The remainder of us bottom feeders own mig welders. Maybe your dealers are more picky... Midwest ag dealers sell alot of cobbled up equipment. Besides a good fabrication should look no different than a factory piece. The only difference would be heavier guage metel would be present because it is not engineered to fail after the warranty. Alot of genseng equipment is home built for specific purposes. My neighbor built aluminum trusses for shade cloth, one field was 20 acres. And I know its not the only field he has. Can you imagine the cost of this factory made ???
Everything man made can be abused, broken, or used many years. The beams on my Bobcat are twisted . You think I should give the dealer five grand for another loader.... or should I cut, sleeve, and reinforce what I have ? If I buy new and bend it do you think they would stand behind it ? Nope... just excuses starting with abuse, pressure, and planet allignment.
I know where your comming from Dave but as our great economy gets better ( and the president says were on the upswing ) people like me will build and fabricate equipment all day if the price is five times what the cost of materials is. Don't let anyone stand behind your rock rake because a loose stone may hit the wrong person. Liability is not a new word or meaning. For some it is a way of life. ( you should be in law enforcement as you get to court quite often )
I'm going to build my own cab. Do you think this is wise as maybe the next owner will pay more for it not included in the sale? I will get the waiver from owens - corning on strength and bursting fractures for their safety plate glass posting it on the interior within operators view. Won't help much but it may make me feel better.
Are Nascar garages considered "factory " as they sell some of their older generation cars to
smaller budget teams ? I guess at 190+ mph they don't have time to worry about it !!!!!!!!
Dave, I hope you don't get the idea I'm trying to beat you up on this topic. I just see it as a way of life and applaud skillful people for being creative. I just dragged home a South Bend Lathe last evening......... hello pins and bushings !

 

[Spudland_Dave]

why would you trade it to a dealer and get zip in the first place.

Well it depends on what your selling....I'd get more on a trade in, with zero hassle if I decided I wanted to upgrade my 3520 Cab tomorrow... I considered upgrading to a 4320 Cab last fall...wasnt to serious, more just kicking it around in my head and my dealer offered me the same price I paid for my machine 2 years ago... Used it 2 yeas, 130 hours and get back every penny minus normal maintance...no hassle...no worries about a check bouncing...Why would I want to cash sale it?

Maybe your dealers are more picky... Midwest ag dealers sell alot of cobbled up equipment.

Yep...My name is "on file" at a couple local dealers for cobbled up equipment....just last fall I drug home a home fabbed Backhoe subframe for 50 bucks...got alot of nice steel out of that chunk...It was a woods backhoe and they had a factory subframe on order....

Besides a good fabrication should look no different than a factory piece. The only difference would be heavier guage metel would be present because it is not engineered to fail after the warranty.

Joe, I agree 100% But the problem is the VAST majority are not good fabs...It broke my heart to cut up that subframe I got as it was a professionally welded piece...but thats the exception...most of the time what I find and see have welds that look like bird poo and the nicer pieces are painted with latex house paint, most are painted with what appears to be a new coating that looks & feels JUST like rust

Everything man made can be abused, broken, or used many years. The beams on my Bobcat are twisted . You think I should give the dealer five grand for another loader.... or should I cut, sleeve, and reinforce what I have ? If I buy new and bend it do you think they would stand behind it ? Nope... just excuses starting with abuse, pressure, and planet allignment.

Well, I think you're getting a little off topic...I'd always reccomend fixing over buying new if you have this skill.

I know where your comming from Dave but as our great economy gets better ( and the president says were on the upswing ) people like me will build and fabricate equipment all day if the price is five times what the cost of materials is.

Add me to that list...Not just price...but quality too...I'd rather build then buy ANY Day. But a Loader? I can only answer questions in the "WWDD" what would Dave do...and I wouldnt build a loader.

I'm going to build my own cab. Do you think this is wise as maybe the next owner will pay more for it not included in the sale? I will get the waiver from owens - corning on strength and bursting fractures for their safety plate glass posting it on the interior within operators view. Won't help much but it may make me feel better.

Cabs...touch & go subject with me...all depends what you want your cab for.

Dave, I hope you don't get the idea I'm trying to beat you up on this topic. I just see it as a way of life and applaud skillful people for being creative. I just dragged home a South Bend Lathe last evening......... hello pins and bushings !

Nah, dont worry about it...we've had great discussions on the side about powerrakes, etc...I admire you and your work. No hard feelings here. I actually really like this forum for that reason...on some other forums, people post and just want positive feedback...here we can talk like adults even if its "not what you want to hear"...

You'll love your lathe...I have a small crapanese lathe to tinker with and I love it.

 

[Leejohn]

By the sound of it you want to give it shot at building one. Go for it and don't even think about cost. If you go out on the town you well spend $100.00 to $200.00 a nite, and all you got is ( man what a nite, that sure was fun.) Building this loader well give so much more enjoyment and that well last so much longer, even when the tractor is gone. Just do the very best you can and don't cut corners. Just because it's factory made does not mean its better, people like you and me work at that factory.

 

[joes_427_vette]

Just do the very best you can and don't cut corners. Just because it's factory made does not mean its better, people like you and me work at that factory.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't have expressed it better. Good therapy, keeps the brain on track, sense of accomplishment, reason to buy that new tool, less time for the tavern, and you might save a few bucks along the way.
Some are hung up on and following engineered plans. I prefer to look at something, make sure the functions I want are there, and build it in my head. Might be a little stronger, not as pretty, but certainly functional. It don't happen in the first try and I'm not discouraged. If it goes together too easy your missing something. ( I cut my loader beam up three times before getting the correct arch and distance I felt was right )

So... my advice is to dig in, have fun, ask questions. Someone on the forum has the answer or multiple ways of solving your problem. There is more to life than ordering shiney paint with a specific decal. I built four houses before I found the style that fit us best.

 

[David Devuono]

Seeing as you are in Ontario, Princess Auto 2 spool BM40 valve is about $220. Watch for cylinder sales or look at the cheaper tie rod cylinders. Mechanically its a easy do it yourself project and I used a Kubota BX22 brochure to copy mine. After about 7 years and a few hundred hours of use, my pins are still tight and I only surface oil them (no grease fittings). You will easliy save $2000.