GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem

[MF RED in MT]

Hey everyone, I hope some of you can help me. I have a GC2410 with 14 hours on it and have had starting problems when the temperature dips below zero.
I use #1 diesel with PS white bottle (2.25oz. to 2.5 gallons).
Tractor is parked in detached, non-insulated garage.
Tractor has magentic oil pan type heater turned on for 3 hours before starting.
I use the owners manual Coldest Weather Starting procedure, ON position for 2 seconds, GLOW position for 15 seconds, then start position.
I crank the engine for 10 seconds, then stop for 10 seconds, then crank the engine for another 10 seconds.
It usually takes about 4 cycle of this cranking and stopping to start the engine.
Outside temperature is -6 degrees F. (at 10:00am yesterday morning)
Garage temperature is +8 degrees F.

Maybe I need to follow the 2 seconds, 15 seconds procedure for each try at starting the engine?
Maybe I need to crank for more than 10 seconds?
Maybe I need to increase the oil pan heater time more than 3 hours?
Maybe I need to get a different type of heater?

F.Y.I. , I ordered this tractor with a freeze type block heater and the MF dealer installed this magnetic type oil pan heater. I questioned him about why I didn't receive the type of heater that I ordered and he told me that "the freeze plug type heater would not fit".
This statement is different then whats on the MF owners manual, page 35:
"Installation of accessory engine block heater is recommended in cold weather conditions. Contact your dealer."
Maybe someone can tell me if a block type heater is available and fits this tractor?
Thanks, KC

 

[irvingj]

MF Red-- if your engine looks like the pic below, the freeze plug heater should work. (Right above the oil filter.) Mine was expensive at $140 or so, but it fit like a glove. It came with only one bolt, however, so I had to get a second, and I think it was metric- dealer had one. (Apparently there used to be one already in one of the holes, but had been eliminated in later 2310s.) Putting that heater on larger tractors can be a real pain, because there's other stuff in the way that needs to be removed first, but the 2310 wasn't bad at all.

There's a thread on that-- do a search.

When I start mine in cold weather, I hold the glow plugs on (key to left) for half a minute or more... and may still repeat. I hadn't heard about the "15 second" deal. Maybe yours is different? You might want to try just holding "glow" for a longer period of time.

 

[Egon]

You could also install a in line bottom hose heater or throw a tarp over the tractor and run a small electric heater with fan to warm it up.

 

[ray66v]

15 seconds of glow plug time? That will not usually work at those temps. I use 30 seconds, or even more, when it is extremely cold.

Also, try opening the throttle about 1/4 of the way when you crank it.

Some of these can be temperamental, (all machines, and computers, are female).

There is a combination that will work.

I have a diesel mower that will not start at anytime, unless I move the throttle all the way open, and then closed 1/2 way again, while I crank it.

 

[Ivan1547]

3 hours should be fine for the block heater.

Try to cycle the glow plugs, in our extreme cold I run the following cycle:

1) Turn key to on position and hold for 2 seconds to let the pump engage.
2) Turn to glow position and hold for 15-20 seconds.
3) Release key and wait for 15-20 seconds (glow plug off).
4) Turn to glow position and hold for 15-20 seconds.
5) Start tractor with throttle at 1/2 position.

Let tractor idle for 15 minutes at about 1400 rpm, then slowly increase the throttle to run.

Ivan

 

[DEWFPO]

The oil pan heater only heats your oil. You need an engine block heater. It makes all the difference in the world. When very cold, my GC 2300 was cold blooded and what worked best for it was plugging in the block heater 2-3 hrs before use, hit the glow plugs for 30 seconds (continuous), and part throttle while cranking. This works every time. As soon as it fires, pull the throttle back to a smooth idle.

DEWFPO

 

[ray66v]

The oil pan heater only heats your oil. You need an engine block heater. It makes all the difference in the world. When very cold, my GC 2300 was cold blooded and what worked best for it was plugging in the block heater 2-3 hrs before use, hit the glow plugs for 30 seconds (continuous), and part throttle while cranking. This works every time. As soon as it fires, pull the throttle back to a smooth idle.

DEWFPO

I am sure the heater does not hurt. Mine has always started fine, using the above procedure, without a block heater.

 

[DEWFPO]

I've never liked oil pan heaters because if you install too large (high wattage) an oil pan heater you can cook/coke your oil if left on for a long time. If you install the right size it surely doesn't hurt and does indeed help. I've use engine block (imersion) heaters for 30+ years in just about everything I own so I guess I just have a preference. Given a choice I'd rather have cold oil hitting a warm block then hot oil hitting a cold block. Just my 2 cents.

DEWFPO

 

[MF RED in MT]

Thanks irving, did your block heater just fit into the freeze plug hole, or did you have to remove the plug? I see the 2 threaded holes above mine where it goes. I forgot to mention that I set the throttle lever half way. I will call a different MF dealer tomorrow to order the part as I am fed up with the dealer I purchased it from (many other little troubles from that dealer). I am not a hard person to please and I have reached my limit with this dealer.

Egon, I have a propane 35000 watt tube heater, but I only want to use it when I do small things in the garage, like putting on tire chains, etc...

Ivan1547, I was just following the manual which also says warm up time for this temperature is 40 minutes. I also did not continue to crank the engine until it started, because it seemed like too much time passed by.

DEWFPO, I have an industrial type timer with a 12 ga. 25' power cord that I set for only 3 hours before I want to start the tractor, so I think I will not be cooking the oil? I agree with you, have always had freeze plug type block heaters in the past and that is what I had ordered with this tractor.

ray66v, It was -20 F this morning at 10:00am but no new snow so I did'nt have to use the tractor.

Thanks to everyone for the information. I guess I have been following the owners manual to close which may not work in all cases. I was worried about abusing the glow plugs and also possible damage to the engine with extended cranking time needed for it to start.

 

[irvingj]

Yes, you have to drain the coolant and then punch a hole in the freeze plug & remove it. Don't drill it, as this may leave metal shavings in the cooling jacket. Also, be careful not to ding up the edges of the hole in the block. The heater has an O-ring seal that, in my case, fit perfectly. Not a bad idea to put a bit of vaseline or silicone grease --or similar-- around the O-ring when you install it. Mine never leaked a bit. There are more deatils in the thread from last year on this.

Also, if you have a hose-thread cap (or even a Coke bottle cap I think might work), you can thread it onto the end of the heater during summer to keep goop out of the electrical connection, and store the electrical cord inside in a safe place.

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- it's a LOT easier if you remove the grille & a bit of the side panel! (Just a few #3 Phillips screws, maybe a couple small bolts.)

 

[ray66v]

Yes, you do want to run the tractor for a significant amount of time in bitter cold temps, to warm the 4.5 gallons of oil in the transmission.

To help with this, I use synthetic oil, even in the trans, and have installed a glue on heating pad on the bottom of the axle, OIL PAN HEATER KITS - JCWhitney, which is always on in cold weather.

 

[FredWalter]

I use synthetic oil, even in the trans, and have installed a glue on heating pad on the bottom of the axle, OIL PAN HEATER KITS - JCWhitney, which is always on in cold weather.

I need to change my hydraulic (and engine) oil. What are the full names of they syntheic hydraulic oil and synthetic engine oil that you use?

I assume that you are using their larger glue-on heating pad. Is there any concern that you might accidently scrap it off, or is it stuck on that securely?

 

[DEWFPO]

I need to change my hydraulic (and engine) oil. What are the full names of they syntheic hydraulic oil and synthetic engine oil that you use?

I assume that you are using their larger glue-on heating pad. Is there any concern that you might accidently scrap it off, or is it stuck on that securely?

I used Amsoil HDD Heavy Duty 5W30 Diesel Oil in the engine and Amsoil ATH 5W30 Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil in hydro system. According to the Amsoil tech these are the correct Amsoil Synthetics for the 2300.

Northern Tool also has the stick on Silicon heating pads.

DEWFPO

 

[bp fick]

F.Y.I. , I ordered this tractor with a freeze type block heater and the MF dealer installed this magnetic type oil pan heater. I questioned him about why I didn't receive the type of heater that I ordered and he told me that "the freeze plug type heater would not fit".

Thanks, KC

KC, I also requested a block heater at the time of purchase. I thought the price he quoted was quite reasonable. Turns out, it was too reasonable. I also got a tractor delivered with simple 200 watt magnetic heater stuck on the engine mounting flange. Ugh.

Now it is the middle of winter and I don't feel like disabling my tractor nor even working on it. So, I just stopped by TSC and bought the identical magnetic heater for $29.

Now, I have one on either side of the engine. They do OK, but take 4 hours to do much good. I'll struggle through this winter as is.

 

[HeavyHitch]

I have a GC2400 and it's in a garage that never falls below 40 degrees and it still requires about 30 seconds of glow plugs for it to start without cranking too much. I think the Iseki engine is just really "cold blooded".

 

[amkfken]

My 2300 is in a basement, unheated, @ 20degrees or less, 1/3 throttle, glow plugs for 10 seconds, fires right up, using 15w-40 oil, whatever Big R or Murdoch's hydraulic oil house brand is, warm up for 3-4 minutes and go, have 493hrs @ 10,000ft elevation-no problems.

 

[DEWFPO]

My 2300 is in a basement, unheated, @ 20degrees or less, 1/3 throttle, glow plugs for 10 seconds, fires right up, using 15w-40 oil, whatever Big R or Murdoch's hydraulic oil house brand is, warm up for 3-4 minutes and go, have 493hrs @ 10,000ft elevation-no problems.

Just curious, why 15W40 in such a cold climate? I assume it's dino as well?

DEWFPO

 

[ray66v]

I need to change my hydraulic (and engine) oil. What are the full names of they syntheic hydraulic oil and synthetic engine oil that you use?

I assume that you are using their larger glue-on heating pad. Is there any concern that you might accidently scrap it off, or is it stuck on that securely?

The smaller one fits nicely on the bottom. No It has not been scraped, but I don't go running through the woods.

I used Amsoil HDD Heavy Duty 5W30 Diesel Oil in the engine and Amsoil ATH 5W30 Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil in hydro system.
DEWFPO

Same here.



It was 17 degrees F this morning, and my tractor had not run in about 6 weeks. 30 seconds of glow, 1/4 throttle, and it fired up like it was summer.

 

[DMW]

I need to change my hydraulic (and engine) oil. What are the full names of they syntheic hydraulic oil and synthetic engine oil that you use?

I had the same issue with water in the Permatran. I switched to Duratran synthetic. Only problem getting it is that it is only available in 20L pails (AFAIK) from Petro-Canada lubricant distributors. The Kubota SuperUDT is a very similar fluid, and available from any Kubota dealer, but not sure of the price.
I used the Esso SD-3 Extra 0W-40 from Walmart until I couldn't find it last fall. Switched to Rotella T 5W-40 synthetic. I have noticed it is a little slower cranking in the cold. The Esso oil was great, used it in all my small engines.
I have no experience with the Amsoil products as they have only become available locally at Canadian Tire recently. But wouldn't hesitate to use them.

 

[amkfken]

DEWFPO--
15w40 Rotella was all they had in stock, works for me, will be using same in my 83 Eagle when roadworthy, using Mobil 1 10w and 5w30 in rest of vehicles (if they don't leak)!