Dedicated Fuel Storage Shed

[dave1949]

I am considering building a fuels storage shed to store diesel, gas, propane tanks, oxy-acetylene tanks, hyd. fluid, oil, etc. I'm sure alot of us have garages that are ticking time bombs.

The purpose would be to move all these out of the garage for fire safety and generally reducing fire hazards. Plus I think it could make fire fighters a whole lot safer if I ever had a building fire.

A well ventilated shed about 50' from any other building is what I had in mind. I would put a flamable hazard sign on each side for the benefit of any firemen - should I ever need them. I am not concerned much about theft.

Any ideas from firemen or others who have done this or are considering it?
Thanks, Dave.

 

[Trails2004]

You hit the nail on the head- "Well ventilated"

Good Luck with your project!

 

[Rickstir]

I am doing this next spring. I have to build a horse barn/pole building for the wife. After that I have an old concrete pad 20 yards west of the pole barn I keep my tractor in. This will be a 3 1/2 sided pole building, open along the top all around for ventilation. The half open side will be on the west, away from the pole barn. Most of it will be for implements but a portion will have all the fuels and fluids.

 

[jpm1]

I think its a great idea! My thought would be to invite the fire chief over and discuss it with him. Show him what you are storing and go from there. It would sure take some of the guess work and suprise from their job if they were needed.

 

[eepete]

I'm on our volunteer fire department here. Great idea! In addition to the ventilation, a little window on each side is nice. If it goes, you can pop the windows, blow water in one and the other is an exhaust. They could be as small as 2' square and 4-5' off the ground- useful and a reasonable deterrent to theft.

If your local Fire Department is volunteer, consider a $50 donation and when you either send it in or give it to them, tell them that if they had a chance you'd love for them to come out and make any suggestions that would make their life easier regarding design and placement. The donation is optional and it is not cheesy at all. If you then popped them even $25 a year, they would always know where you are. This is not better treatment for money, it's just that a donation is so rare that they will talk about it and go "Now where does he live?" and remember it. They will love to see your tractor, tools, etc and will remember the layout of your place. They may also make recommendations regarding parking, turn around areas and the like. What a win!

Finally, this will make a difference in how much you can salvage if your tractor barn/garage catches fire. Not having 15-20 gallons of fuel thrown into the event means that there is less super heat and slower spread of the fire. If you can put a temperature based fire sensor in both structures (your tractor barn and fuel building) the early warning means a much better chance of saving things. While I would never advocate using a garden hose to try to put out a structure fire, people do it and if you got caught up in the moment and did that the less fuel that is around the better. Safer for you and the fire fighters.

Finally, thanks for thinking about the safety of 1st responders as you create your personal infrastructure for tractoring!

Pete

 

[BXinNH]

When designing the ventilation in your fuel shed(s), remember that almost all flammable/combustible liquid vapors are heavier than air. Ventilation will be more effective at the bottom of the walls than at the top.
Matt.

 

[dave1949]

Thanks to all for the replies and good ideas.

Per eepete's idea, I have thought of talking to the local fire chief before I get started, all volunteer here too. They can always use funds for equipment maintenance.

I know I would feel I improved the overall safety for everyone by getting the accelerants out of the tractor garage. The volunteer firemen are guys who donate a good bit of time and energy to their communities. It's good to think about their safety too.

Dave.

 

[Cidertom]

(Putting on Chiefs hat)
If I were to offer advice on the subject it would be:

Protect from ground fire; Put some non-combustible barrier around site so a simple grass fire can't get to it.

Fuel away from the fuel bunker; So any accidental fire from fueling can't flash back to the shed.

Put appropriate NFPA 704 symbol on it so responders can see what it is, and act accordingly.

Have a 40+ B Exitinguisher in the area, not at the site.

Thank you for considering the issues.

(taking off Chiefs hat)

Cidertom

 

[dave1949]

Thanks CiderTom.

Good idea to have a ground buffer around it. I will probably use gravel/driveway stone. Thanks for the NFPA 704 and extinguisher info too.
Dave.

 

[powerstroke444e]

From an insurance stand point I really like seeing all gas and fuel out of the shed.
Personal after having a few clients burn there house down from spilling gas in the garage I moved all my gas, paint thinner and diesel out to a portable shed. We did this on our farm also, now its second nature to keep them out of the shop, and makes me nervous when I go in other people's shops and see open vented gas cans just setting in the corner.

 

[eepete]

Cidertom- great specific recommendations. To all, that's why he's a Chief and I'm just an assistant Chief.

powerstroke444e: I've seen two houses go. Both were accidents working on vehicles in attached garages. Gas tanks were removed, had fuel in them that spilled, that was it. One was a car, one was a tractor.

I'm working on a tractor shed. I plan to get a flammables cabinet for it. It will have heat detection for fire.

Pete

 

[RedDirt]

I've considered building a stand-alone fuel shed too. What are recommendations for construction materials?

My option #1 is concrete slab floor, concrete block walls, and a concrete slab (preferable) or metal roof with metal rafters.

Option #2 is dirt/gravel floor, metal studs, metal siding, metal rafters w/ metal roof. I think I'd insulate the metal building.

If I can afford it, option #1 would be better for less heat transfer to interior of shed if surrounding area was ablaze (I'd maintain minimum 30' no-weed zone around building).

For you fire folk. Do you know that the latest info regarding the greatest (forest) fire threat to structures is from embers not flames? This brings into question the use (or not use) of vents. I agree a fuel shed should be well ventilated but I also think that provisions should be made at construction to enable one to cover the vents if a fire is near or eminent. Last summer I retro fitted our residence eave and foundation vents for this feature but I'm not sure how it relates to a fuel specific shed.

BTW, my vent cover system takes me 15 minutes to attach 40+ vents on the house and shop. It's on the 2hr evac plan. The 30min evac plan puts them in a box with instructions for placement by visiting firemen (along with Barricade foam). Ten min evac plan is to just grab pre-packed gear, wallet, glasses, dog and GO.

We also have dedicated roof sprinklers on house and shop. I'd do the same for the fuel shed. I.E: Impact sprinklers waters the roof (read gutter debris) and 20ft-30ft beyond building footprint. If time permitted I'd foam the shed before evacuation.

Fuel shed const material recommendation appreciated as well as advice to cover vents or not.

Thanks, Ray - Past volunteer fireman and current member local Fire Safe Council

 

[powerstroke444e]

I've considered building a stand-alone fuel shed too. What are recommendations for construction materials?

My option #1 is concrete slab floor, concrete block walls, and a concrete slab (preferable) or metal roof with metal rafters.

Option #2 is dirt/gravel floor, metal studs, metal siding, metal rafters w/ metal roof. I think I'd insulate the metal building.


BTW, my vent cover system takes me 15 minutes to attach 40+ vents on the house and shop. It's on the 2hr evac plan. The 30min evac plan puts them in a box with instructions for placement by visiting firemen (along with Barricade foam). Ten min evac plan is to just grab pre-packed gear, wallet, glasses, dog and GO.



Thanks, Ray - Past volunteer fireman and current member local Fire Safe Council

I respect you guys that live in fire area's/mountains as only thing I have to worry about it onsite fires as out here every thing is plowed every fall. And deepest hole during a winter strom is a drainage ditch not falling of a mountain road.

 

[eepete]

RedDirt, you have such a unique situation with terrain, fire load, and types of fire that this eastern boy can't give you any advice. Work your firefighter connections for this one. I have a buddy in the Monteray, CA area that's a volunteer, and the stories he tells are chilling. I think your vent cover and sprinkler system is very smart. Most good fire planning for the home is 90% prevention and 10% having full insurance.

Our house is in a hayfield. I used Hardie-plank siding, have a metal roof that is grounded, 6" wide self cleaning gutters, and a 3' pea gravel perimeter around the house. On the west and south side the gravel driveway comes in and there is a grass lawn barrier around the whole house. The house also has a residential sprinkler system. Some folks think I'm paranoid, most agree I'm crazy.

Pete

 

[Coyote machine]

As a side issue to the original post: is it problematic to store a 300-350 gallon diesel fuel dispensing tank inside a new construction barn/garage with heat protection sensors, smoke and co protection and the tank itself coated with several inches of BASF Comfort Foam 178, Class I fire protection rated?
I'd really like to keep it inside the barn on the concrete floor instead of outside where it is subjected to the temp and humidity, algae growth issues. The heating system is fueled by propane from an underground tank, and the boiler is a Buderus gas boiler in a separate mechanical/electrical room. No open flames would be used inside the barn, and obviously no smoking. The diesel tractor would also be in the barn in the relative vicinity of the storage tank.

Thanks for any input, suggestions.

 

[Cidertom]

A couple of further thoughts: (EEPETE: I was using Chief Genericaly, I too am an AC).
My thoughts on vents: Fine metal screen will do fine to keep embers out. Plastic screen won't work.

Big storage tanks. If I were doing it, it would be a subsurface crypt type. This gets the double wall protection from leaks (DEQ) , minimizes thermal pumping (Moisture ingress to fuel), provides fire protection. Issue is permitting, pumping and filling.

If you put a concrete floor in a fuel building, put a sill around it. That way if the temp gets up to the failure point of the cans the fuels can't flow out and cause further issues.

Some issues if you are thinking of a true building.
Lighting: If your use would require a light, you are talking a Div 1.1 installation. This is a serious electrical issue.
Passive vents may not be enough, you might need some sort of forced air flow.

Talk to you local FD and they can steer you in the right direction for your needs.

Mine is a doorless tin shed that is the size of a single holer outhouse, on a gravel pad.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think its a great idea also but lets be honest 50' is nothing. I have seen fires that melt the tires off cars 100' away. You really need to move it much farther than that to do any good.

Chris

 

[RedDirt]

Good replies, thanks guys. I like the concrete sill recommendation and I forgot about Hardie board as being a good fire resistant material.

I won't need lights. If I ever need to be in there in the dark I'll just use a flashlight. Having two opposing breakout windows (mentioned earlier) is a good suggestion and would help interior lighting in daylight hours.

The fine mesh screens may work fine too for ventilation. We could not use them on the house since code requires "x" sqft vent area per "y" sqft of building so small mesh screens would be either large or numerous. For a small shed they'd be fine.

I want my fuel bldg as small as possible, maybe 5'x6' or 7'. I'll use it to store my one diesel drum, gas Jerry cans and then shelves for cases of oil, plus the numerous flammable solvents I have in the shop and garage and shed. I thought of building it a bit bigger so I could also store gas driven machines it there but then it starts looking like a garage!

 

[LBrown59]

1*I am considering building a fuels storage shed to store diesel, gas, propane tanks, oxy-acetylene tanks, hyd. fluid, oil, etc. I'm sure alot of us have garages that are ticking time bombs.
The purpose would be to move all these out of the garage for fire safety and generally reducing fire hazards. Plus I think it could make fire fighters a whole lot safer if I ever had a building fire.
A well ventilated shed about 50' from any other building is what I had in mind.
2*I would put a flamable hazard sign on each side for the benefit of any firemen - should I ever need them.
I am not concerned much about theft.
3*Any ideas from firemen or others who have done this or are considering it?
Thanks, Dave.

1*I never have kept this sort of stuff in a garage house barn or work shop or basement.
2*Theft concerns me about this .
3*Here are are pictures of my Dedicated Fuel Storage Shed






******************

I want my fuel bldg as small as possible, maybe 5'x6' or 7'. I'll use it to store my one diesel drum, gas Jerry cans and then shelves for cases of oil, plus the numerous flammable solvents I have in the shop and garage and shed.
I thought of building it a bit bigger so I could also store gas driven machines it there but then it starts looking like a garage!

Mine is 8 feet wide by 10 foot deap.
I would not go any smaller than 8x10 or 8x 12.

 

[BXinNH]

While all of these ideas are very good and valid, some of them seem very expensive and elaborate particularly where diesel fuel and motor oil are concerned. Millions of houses around the country have a few hundred gallons of diesel fuel in the basement in a simple steel single wall tank. This is not to say a fuel shed is not a good idea, just providing perspective.
Matt.