Cold weather slow FEL

valley · Nov 26, 2009

My FEL was working great. I drained the hydraulic fluid and refilled with the same type and weight fluid 32. Now,with the return of cold weather, it takes a long time for the FEL to start moving.
Wondering if I should flush the system again and refill or fill with lighter oil or both.

Diamondpilot · Nov 26, 2009

I would check the filter first. You may have stirred up the pot and now its partially blocked.

Chris

greg_g · Nov 26, 2009

Hindsight is 20/20, but a flush should probably been included before refilling with fresh. And I NEVER change fluids without also replacing the associated filter or cleaning the associated screen. Also - are you sure you bought AW/ISO32 hydraulic fluid? Some folks have mistakenly used AW/ISO32 machine oil. It foams, effectively infusing air into the system.

//greg//

Diamondpilot · Nov 27, 2009

greg_g said:
Hindsight is 20/20, but a flush should probably been included before refilling with fresh. And I NEVER change fluids without also replacing the associated filter or cleaning the associated screen. Also - are you sure you bought AW/ISO32 hydraulic fluid? Some folks have mistakenly used AW/ISO32 machine oil. It foams, effectively infusing air into the system.

//greg//

Good point about the oil. I would go back and check.

Chris

RonMar · Nov 27, 2009

Did you mess with any of the fittings? Is anything loose? If something on the suction line is a little loose, it could be sucking air in thru a pinhole leak instead of lifting the cold fluid up and out of the resovoir...

valley · Nov 27, 2009

Thanks Guys, I didn't change anything just changed the oil. It worked well after I changed the fluid until the temp dropped. Its not real cold its 30*. Maybe I'll flush the system and check the screen tomorrow. What weight oil do you use in the cold? I have 32 in now. Thanks for the input.

greg_g · Nov 27, 2009

valley said:
T What weight oil do you use in the cold? I have 32 in now.

I use AW/ISO32 year round; thin enough to work right away with weather in the teens. A little slower warming up in single digits. AW32 has a viscosity equivalency of 10W engine oil. Might find some thinner in your area, but what's sold around here starts at AW32 and gets thicker.

//greg//

valley · Nov 28, 2009

greg, I bought and used hydraulic oil and it is 32. Crossed my mind too if I could have put some gear oil in there. When you flush your system did you break all the fittings or just drain at the reservoir?
We have a storm going that they say will be out of here by noon.

RonMar · Nov 28, 2009

A simple changeout, depending on what cylinders were in what positions, would still leave perhaps a gallon of the old oil in the cylinders and lines on your typical small loader. Perhaps there is still enough old oil in the system to be effecting your cold weather performance. A flush then changeout also results in this same leftover, but it is of mostly the flush fluid(kerosene) that will evaporate out of the system over time thru use, to be replaced by regular hydraulic fluid.

I recall reading about one guy who propped up his loader and disconnected all the cylinder from the loader structure and layed them out so they could fully extend and retract without touching anything. Then he applied compressed air to the system and worked the controls repeatedly to work most all the old oil out of the system...

greg_g · Nov 28, 2009

valley said:
When you flush your system did you break all the fittings or just drain at the reservoir?

My tractors are a bit different than yours; each has two pumps, two completely independent hydraulic loops. But in general practice, just drain at the sump. Doing so - especially the first time - usually requires a drain/flush/drain/flush repetition.

When the old fluid's been replaced by kerosene, start the tractor and exercise all the hydraulics. Get that kero pumping through the system, drive around a few figure 8s, hit some bumps, make the kero splash into corners and crevices. Stop, drain kero through cheesecloth or window screen. That way you get rid of the big chunks and globs, and be able to re-use the kero for additional flushing. Repeat as necessary, until no more chunks and/or crud are caught by the cheesecloth or screen. Refill with fresh hydraulic fluid. Repeat the figure 8s, topping up the fluid if necessary. Park the tractor with the front a bit higher than the rear. Now's the time you want to service the suction screen or replace the filter - depending upon how you're configured.

The next day, what kero is left in the sump will have settled to the bottom. Drain till hydraulic fluid comes out. Top up again. May be the last time you ever have to do it. I flushed both of my current tractors as soon as I got them. 700 combined hours later, the hydraulid fluid is nearly as clean as the day it was put in.

//greg//

valley · Nov 28, 2009

Well! I drained the hydraulic fluid, it was plenty thin enough. filled with diesel, started but the FEL would not operate. Pulled the screen out it was clean. Tomorrow I'll put it back together and put a heater on the remote valve hoping to get it moving so I can get it down in front of the shop from the corral. maybe there is some crud in the quick connects. That would be better than the pump or pump drive shaft.

Diamondpilot · Nov 28, 2009

valley said:
Well! I drained the hydraulic fluid, it was plenty thin enough. filled with diesel, started but the FEL would not operate. Pulled the screen out it was clean. Tomorrow I'll put it back together and put a heater on the remote valve hoping to get it moving so I can get it down in front of the shop from the corral. maybe there is some crud in the quick connects. That would be better than the pump or pump drive shaft.

Not sure how your tractor is plumbed but if its just your FEL then maybe its a stuck Pressure Relief Valve in the FEL valve.

Chris

3RRL · Nov 28, 2009

Diamondpilot said:
Not sure how your tractor is plumbed but if its just your FEL then maybe its a stuck Pressure Relief Valve in the FEL valve.

Chris

Could be bad, or not properly connected QD's (quick disconnects) too?

valley · Nov 28, 2009

Chris, Its a Jinma FEL I don't remember if its a 20 or 30 with the rectanglish Valve Not the one Rob did the break down on.

Rob, Too long no hear! Hope you've been in the pink. QDs: Could be they are the origionals but I haven't opened or connected them recently. Never had one apart. Maybe some junk in one? It was colder today, in the twenties. I'd like to get it down off the hill, another snow and it might be there until spring. It seemed to come on with the cold weather.

Thanks for being there. Richard

valley · Nov 28, 2009

Isn't the pressure relieve valve just screwed into the valve body? About the size of your thumb.

greg_g · Nov 29, 2009

valley said:
Well! I drained the hydraulic fluid, it was plenty thin enough. filled with diesel, started but the FEL would not operate. Pulled the screen out it was clean.

I'm with the majority here, the flush probably busted some crud loose and it's lodged somewhere obstructing the flow. Note of caution, the crud that makes it through the loop will eventually hit the suction screen. So make sure you check it again before putting in clean fluid.

//greg//

Diamondpilot · Nov 29, 2009

How many pumps does your tractor have? I know some have 1 and some have 2. The 2 pump systems I have seen use one pump for remotes, 3 point, and FEL and the other pump just for steering. If you have a 1 pump system it will run everything. If you have a 1 pump system and your 3 point and steering are working then you know its in the FEL valve or lines.

Chris

Egon · Nov 29, 2009

Drain the water out of your Joystick controller.

SPIKER · Nov 29, 2009

I think if the FEL is only thing affected then it is the pressure relief valve on the FEL valve. Does the 3 point work normally? and does the steering work normally? if so it is the FEL valve. Use the TILT and the RAISE together to get the bucket UP then raise and tilt back to get the bucket off the ground to get it back to the barn.

The valve is simple to work on and probably has some junk that was rinsed loose stuck in there it takes very little to prop open the high pressure relief enough to keep the FEL from moving. I know mine did it. the large cap under the ZL20 dual handle valve covers a small set screw & nut. this lock nut needs to be loosened and then turn the screw, back the screw out 1 full turn and run the tractor trying to raise the fel run up the RPMs to full speed. then turn the valve screw back in that one full turn, and lock it down. re-start tractor and try the FEL again. this might flush out the valve well enough to get it moving. also note that when I switched from the old china oil to hydraulic fluid that my FEL now drops when warm qucikly due to the light oil passing through around the valve spools as the tolerances are much greater for these china valve that most US valves which use thin oil, remember that CHINA specs 30 weight motor oil... and if I put that in durring summer it will stay put when raised on mine...

Mark M

valley · Nov 29, 2009

Greetings, There was no flush the FEL will not move.
This tractor has one pump, good point, I didn't try the 3point, but I will.
Rob mentioned the QDs can they be checked by starting the tractor then turning it off then deprissing the valve with a tool or removing the male attachments from the remote?
Bit of a pain, we have wood to split.