Factory vs aftermarket buckets

[Ken45101]

Ken, if you roll the bucket back so that the teeth are up off the ground, you then use the back of the bucket and have a smooth flat surface. I actually like back dragging with my toothed bucket and using the teeth, it then disperses the uneven ground evenly.

With loose material, dragging with the back of the bucket will tend to pile up material behind the bucket. A flat bucket or slightly tilted forward does a better job of smoothing.

It all depends on the material, how smooth you want it and how good of an operator you are. But basically it is easier to do a smooth finish job without teeth on the bucket.

 

[MarkV]

e.myers in several of your posts you mention sandy clay as if it is not a heavy material. You have considered larger buckets and loaders for your tractor to move more material at a time. I think you will find a heaping bucket of sandy clay will be all your tractor will want to handle with the standard bucket. Neither clay nor sand is a light weight material.

Tooth bar, loaded tires, tiller as a counter weight and 4wd will all help with your digging.

MarkV

 

[MtnViewRanch]

With loose material, dragging with the back of the bucket will tend to pile up material behind the bucket. A flat bucket or slightly tilted forward does a better job of smoothing.

It all depends on the material, how smooth you want it and how good of an operator you are. But basically it is easier to do a smooth finish job without teeth on the bucket.

I agree with you, the surface comes out flatter if the bucket is flat with the ground. But if you want a smooth surface and have teeth on your bucket, then you need to use the rear of the bucket.

 

[e.myers]

Thanks everyone.
Will wait to see if I need the toothbar but link to the recommended one is on my desktop.

Ended up going with a OEM round HD round back bucket, same volume, heavier weight with holes predrilled for auxilliary edge (as needed).

MarkV-
It's actually a material called "sand clay" It is a sandy clay as you say, but it's a material that contractors like to use because of it's ability to pack well. Yeah, it's definitely heavy, but my point was I'm not planning on lifting concrete or rock with it. Thinking that's much heavier than my sand clay.... but maybe not.

 

[dex3361]

Thanks everyone.
Will wait to see if I need the toothbar but link to the recommended one is on my desktop.

Ended up going with a OEM round HD round back bucket, same volume, heavier weight with holes predrilled for auxilliary edge (as needed).

MarkV-
It's actually a material called "sand clay" It is a sandy clay as you say, but it's a material that contractors like to use because of it's ability to pack well. Yeah, it's definitely heavy, but my point was I'm not planning on lifting concrete or rock with it. Thinking that's much heavier than my sand clay.... but maybe not.

Are you planning on buying the bolt on cutting edge fo the Bucket?

 

[PILOON]

I agree with you, the surface comes out flatter if the bucket is flat with the ground. But if you want a smooth surface and have teeth on your bucket, then you need to use the rear of the bucket.

.
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But if using the rear, you might want to add, say, a 3 X 3 HD angle as a wear element as bucket rear bottoms are not all that thick.
You could just find youself wearing out the bottom!

 

[jenkinsph]

I would get the bolt on cutting edge for the bucket for sure. Before the leading edge of the bucket is damaged.


Just off the top of my head, clay fill dirt is about 2200 lbs /cu yd. heavy gravels are about 2600lbs . You don't want to be working anywhere near the loader capacity rating while doing normal dirt work. The normal volume heavy duty bucket should work just fine for you.



Steve

 

[Ken45101]

You don't want to be working anywhere near the loader capacity rating while doing normal dirt work.

Why not? Are you saying that loaders should not be used near capacity?

 

[nvlong4n1]

W. R. Long makes custom buckets from 40" wide to 100" wide in volumes from 1/3 yard to 2.5 yards. Almost any mounting bracket can be welded to the back of the bucket. Profiles of these buckets can been seen here. http://www.wrlonginc.com/WRLong Standard Buckets.pdf

 

[jenkinsph]

Why not? Are you saying that loaders should not be used near capacity?

In operation where you are moving around on a site with uneven ground you can overstress the loader if you are at maximum capacity. This same loader can pick up a pallet of pavers (as an example) on a paved parking area and slowly move around without a problem even though it is a heavier load. My point is that site or ground conditions make a huge difference in what you should consider as a working load.


Steve

 

[e.myers]

Dex-
Wasn't planning on it. I thought I remembered you saying you didn't need yours, but got it anyway kind of by accident.... not sure. Was told if I notice wear then I can add it later. Also think the toothbar you linked me to said would not work with a bolt on cutting edge. Are there toothbars that will?

Piloon-
That makes sense. Is my HD bucket still gonna need something like that? I know I'm gonna be backdragging a LOT on jump faces.

jenk-
My bucket is:
10.9ft3 = .4yd3 struck
13.1ft3= .49yd3 heaped

Relief valve psi is 2560

Lift capacit is
500mm forward 1356
pivot pin 1818
bucket center 1543

.5 cuyd x 2200lbs = 1100lbs

Not sure about the whole pivot point etc, but looks to me like the loader/ tractor is capable of handling the load.... correct?

nvlong-
will keep that in mind for future reference.

 

[Ken45101]

Also think the toothbar you linked me to said would not work with a bolt on cutting edge. Are there toothbars that will?

Yes, there are bolt on toothbars that go over a bolt on cutting edge. I have that on my JD skid steer. The toothbar bolts on to two holes in the side of the bucket.

I suspect that many (most?) quality skid steer buckets have bolt on cutting edges and tooth bars that go over them.

Ken

 

[jenkinsph]

e.myers,

On my 110tlb I strike the bucket if transporting more than a few feet, I would think you would do the same.

What does the bucket weigh? I don't know if Kubota specs reflect the weight of the bucket but suspect the bucket weight needs to be deducted from the lift capacities.


Steve

 

[PILOON]

Dex-
Wasn't planning on it. I thought I remembered you saying you didn't need yours, but got it anyway kind of by accident.... not sure. Was told if I notice wear then I can add it later. Also think the toothbar you linked me to said would not work with a bolt on cutting edge. Are there toothbars that will?

Piloon-
That makes sense. Is my HD bucket still gonna need something like that? I know I'm gonna be backdragging a LOT on jump faces.
...
...
Heck, I have never seen an excavator bucket that they have not 'faced' the underside with wear strips. Much cheaper than replacing a bucket.
Look at a quarry site, all the loaders have wear strips on the buckets, same with big backhoes.

They even weld zig-zag hard facing on top of the wear strips.

Sure you can wait 'til the metal gets thin and add some, but prevention is better than repair.

My FEL bucket had them factory installed and now they are getting thin,
Time to reface!

To quote;
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!"

 

[dex3361]

Dex-
Wasn't planning on it. I thought I remembered you saying you didn't need yours, but got it anyway kind of by accident.... not sure. Was told if I notice wear then I can add it later. Also think the toothbar you linked me to said would not work with a bolt on cutting edge. Are there toothbars that will?

Yes I did say that and if I were doing it over I would have listened to Brady Barlows recommendation and not purchased it. The HD bucket that I sent the part to you on has a beefy welded on cutting edge and then add the stiffining of the tooth bar and it is more than you will need. I kept mine for later use cause steel keeps well.

 

[e.myers]

Ken/Jenk/Piloon/Dex-
Thanks for all the answers.

Holding off on the extra bolt on cutting edge for now.
Will know shortly whether I need the tootbar for what I'm doing.

In the meantime, does anyone know of a toobar that will work over a bolt on cutting edge that will work with the kubota HD buckets?

Dex, do you know if the one you directed me to will work?

 

[Westendorf-RR]

Hi I saw a lot of items covered in this post. A bigger bucket is great however, mfgs usually match the size of the bucket and its capacity to what the loader can lift. If the mfg. shows the bigger bucket as an option, you'll be fine - if you go bigger than the recommended bucket you could void your warranty. I'd recommend going deeper than wider, based on your loaders arm spacing, if you get too wide you could increase your chances of twisting your loader if you catch something on an outside edge. You'll need to deduct the weight of the larger bucket from lift capacity. Also if it is deeper you'll move the load further away from the pivot points, and lower lift capacity as well. Get a loader with the matched bucket size you are looking for... it will prevent working or overworking your loader. (Working at max is ok when your really need it, however it is kind of like driving your car at 100mph all the time - it is hard on the equipment and will cause more wear)

Just to clarify an earlier comment - OEM buckets are typically "smaller" than shortline loader buckets. I've been researching loaders now for nearly 10 years and have yet to see an OEM bucket on a comparable loader with higher capacity.

Watch working with bucket dumped and backdragging - it is really hard on the bucket cylinders. Too much angle and you bend the rams. (all loader manufacturers cover this in operator's manual as a "DO NOT DO THIS" with caution for loader damage) With the bucket dumped your rams are completly extended and too much down pressure from the lift cylinders can bend the rams. Solution? Add a blade to the rear of the bucket so you can keep the rams inside the cylinders where they are protected and have more power - add teeth to scarify the ground as well... Backdrag Blade

If you want front teeth - most Bolt on teeth won't work with bolt-on blade applications (some may) however remember - each hole you drill through your cutting edge will weaken the blade. Make sure the double blade is at least 1/2" if not 3/4" thick to make up for the added holes. You can also consider a non-bolt on style of teeth that you can add when you want them and remove quickly when you don't... These are more for the application of hauling straw packed manure than for digging or scarifying the ground.teeth

 

[e.myers]

Western...
That back drag blade w/ scarifier teeth looks interesting. Wonder if it (or other aftermarket versions) will work with my bucket.

That removable canopy also looks interesting.... I'm looking for one of those also.

The "teeth" link didn't work....

Thanks

 

[dex3361]

Ken/Jenk/Piloon/Dex-
Thanks for all the answers.

Holding off on the extra bolt on cutting edge for now.
Will know shortly whether I need the tootbar for what I'm doing.

In the meantime, does anyone know of a toobar that will work over a bolt on cutting edge that will work with the kubota HD buckets?

Dex, do you know if the one you directed me to will work?

There was only a few that will fit with the bolt on cutting edge(I dont remember which one)but not the one I recommended. The HD Kubota has wear plates on the bottom of the bucket for your info.

 

[e.myers]

Thanks.