110 TLB and hammer

[GreatWhitehunter]

As you guys know I'm looking to get a 110 tlb in the near future. I've got a small excavating and mowing venture I'll be using for. I've also been doing concrete demo work and would like to eventually get a hammer. I know deere's site says the 110 can run a hammer but I'm wondering how the hydralics are setup for that? I know on the mini ex's there's a valve that changes the aux hydralics to continous flow but not sure on the 110. Anybody know the answer?

Matt

 

[Charlesaf3]

from what I've heard, it'd be a poor idea - those are rough on little machines. But I don't know from personal experience.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Yes, I've heard the same,but's I've also heard that it really depends on the application. I'll also be running it on a Deere 35c mini ex. The 110 and the 35c
buckets and attachments are interchangable. I've also heard that the newer hammers have really good vibration reduction so we'll see. But back to the original question. It must be the same for the hydraulic augers.

Matt

 

[jenkinsph]

On my 110 the boom is plumbed for the hammer and has a foot pedal operated by the left foot.

When I need concrete demolition I call in a large older backhoe with a big hammer. Would not consider using one on my newer 110. To work efficiently you need one tractor hammering and the other to muck out the spoils anyway.


Steve

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

On my 110 the boom is plumbed for the hammer and has a foot pedal operated by the left foot.

When I need concrete demolition I call in a large older backhoe with a big hammer. Would not consider using one on my newer 110. To work efficiently you need one tractor hammering and the other to muck out the spoils anyway.


Steve

Is the pedel black and also operates the thumb? Does it rock left to right? I'd think a hammer of the post hole digger would need continuos flow right?

Matt

 

[jenkinsph]

Matt,

You can use the pedal and quick couplers for all of these functions, most hammering I have done is in short spurts with repositioning of the hammer in between. You keep bringing up the continuous flow, are you referring to a detent to hold the valve open?

I will try to check this weekend whether the valve is a cylinder spool or motor spool type. The few times I have used a planetary auger I have feathered the valve carefully since I assumed it was a cylinder spool type. This was on the front loader auxillary circuit.



Steve

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the hammers hydraulic requirements. Doesn't it need continous flow to it like a motor? I'm thinking of it like a scv, when the lever(foot pedel in this case) is pushed forward oil is sent to the attchment. Then when the lever (foot pedel) is pulled back it flows in the opposite direction right?

Matt

 

[jenkinsph]

Your right about the foot pedal and flow direction but understand that if you hold the pedal down continuously it sends the fluid to the hammer and after passing thru the hammer it returns to the tractor sump. In the case of a hammer there is no need to use the pedal to reverse the flow, just on and off.


Steve

 

[Charlesaf3]

Matt,

You can use the pedal and quick couplers for all of these functions, most hammering I have done is in short spurts with repositioning of the hammer in between. You keep bringing up the continuous flow, are you referring to a detent to hold the valve open?

I will try to check this weekend whether the valve is a cylinder spool or motor spool type. The few times I have used a planetary auger I have feathered the valve carefully since I assumed it was a cylinder spool type. This was on the front loader auxillary circuit.



Steve

I have a feeling there is something I don't know in there that I should. What are the practical implications of using an auger on a cylinder spool valve? I have a feeling I'm doing just that.

 

[jenkinsph]

Charles,
When a cylinder spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are closed off which keeps the cylinder fixed in place. when a motor spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are open to each other. The idea being that this allows the motor which may be turning fast to slow gradually. When you run a motor on a cylinder spool valve and return to the middle quickly it tries to stop the motor instantly causing undue stress on everything.


Steve

 

[RickB]

Charles,
When a cylinder spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are closed off which keeps the cylinder fixed in place. when a motor spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are open to each other. The idea being that this allows the motor which may be turning fast to slow gradually. When you run a motor on a cylinder spool valve and return to the middle quickly it tries to stop the motor instantly causing undue stress on everything.


Steve

All true.
In applications where hydraulic motors are attached to low inertial loads, or are operated at low shaft speeds, closing the valve spool at low engine speed/low oil flow typically causes no damage. Alternatively, placing the cylinder spool valve in float (if it has that position) allows the motor to coast to a stop.

 

[Charlesaf3]

thanks. That makes sense. And I bet that will be relevant to me. The auger spins slowly, but the harley rakes don't. Unfortunately, I only have an on off setting, no feather. Guess I'll have to do that with engine RPM.

You guys are really an amazing resource. I honestly learn something like this just about every day I come on here.

 

[kennyd]

thanks. That makes sense. And I bet that will be relevant to me. The auger spins slowly, but the harley rakes don't. Unfortunately, I only have an on off setting, no feather. Guess I'll have to do that with engine RPM.

You guys are really an amazing resource. I honestly learn something like this just about every day I come on here.

You can always add a Cushion Valve to your remote if it becomes a problem.

 

[Charlesaf3]

huh. That's really interesting. Do you think I could put quick connects on it to make it go only on the motorized attachments? Would it cut flow noticeably?

I'm using stuff made for skidsteers - do they have motor spools automatically, or are we basically all just abusing the motors "normally" if that makes sense?

 

[kennyd]

The valve will handle the flow-it's rated for 30 GPM. The QD's however could be a problem, but you can use the next size larger than your hose to limit restriction.

I am not sure about the valves on the SSL's, but it's quite possible they have a cushion built into them for this very reason.

 

[J_J]

Charles,
When a cylinder spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are closed off which keeps the cylinder fixed in place. when a motor spool is returned to the middle position the outlet ports are open to each other. The idea being that this allows the motor which may be turning fast to slow gradually. When you run a motor on a cylinder spool valve and return to the middle quickly it tries to stop the motor instantly causing undue stress on everything.


Steve

What Charles said. It is a good idea to put a double relief valve across the hyd motor, and if you do use a cylinder valve, the fluid will go into relief, protecting the motor. I thought most all aux valves were motor spool valves. The valves could be changed over to motor spool. for use with a hammer or motor attachment.

 

[Charlesaf3]

any downside to using a motor spool with a cylinder?

 

[kennyd]

any downside to using a motor spool with a cylinder?

The cylinder will not hold position when the valve is in neutral because the work ports are open to the tank, thus allowing the motor to free-wheel.

 

[Charlesaf3]

ah. So skid steers must have cylinder spools too.

I guess they just figure the motors will have to absorb some shock?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

ah. So skid steers must have cylinder spools too.

I guess they just figure the motors will have to absorb some shock?

This is typicaly not an issue on implements you've got. When you get into higher flow attachments you'll have a 3rd case drain line that dumps back into the transmission. When you're dealing with alot of flow and inertia its important to do this right, it can tear stuff up real quick.