I can't go Green, and this is why:

[MotorSeven]

I have a pond that needs water pumped from the creek 150' away. I have a house not yet built that I would like to be off grid.
I have em'd several solar companies for quotes on both of the above. Many don't even respond(I guess the economy is so good, that they do not need any business).

Those that did:

$5K to sell me a pump and solar panel to pump water 150' with a 6' rise(equip only)

$28K to get a grid tied system for a 1500' sq ft house on a full basement.

I'm just a retired guy that does not have that kind of money laying around. I guess going "green" is only for those with lots of disposable income.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter, but it is a lesson in reality.

RD

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I feel your pain.
don't worry, the price on solar cells keeps going down.
look into the flexible "peel and stick" ones they came out with a couple years ago for putting on standing rib steel roofs. (mother earth News has done a couple of articles on them)

also - google homemade windmill generators. roughly $200 in parts will generate a lot of juice if you live somewhere with decent (steady) winds.

 

[Alan L.]

There's energy in them there sunrays and wind. But we need better technology to make it worth while. We don't have it yet. We need more nuclear and coal fired power plants. By the time these wear out solar and wind power might make sense.

 

[jinjimbob]

So called 'green power' is only cost effective when the rest of the tax payers subsidise someone elses purchase.

 

[nmu98]

"Green" is so misunderstood by Government. Michigan was about to propose legislation that all new buildings in Michigan would have to be "LEED". They had no clue what that meant and it would have put construction in Michigan at a stand still......

 

[tanglefoot]

Hi RD,
In my opinion a high percentage of the sellers of solar and wind technology are in it for a fast buck. I say this from experience. I bought a Skystream wind turbine in 2008 from a solar and wind technology company which is now out of business, and the owner is now in jail for fraud. Good thing for me that my job was not the one that got him in trouble. My wind turbine is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. I think it will pay for itself in less than 10 years. But if it breaks down, I will have to work on it myself.
That may be what it takes to have a house that uses renewable energy sources: you learn enough about the subject that you can install it and repair it yourself. I'm just a retired person, too. I'd like to be able to hire the work that I need done, but 1) I can't afford it, and 2)it's hard to find workers who can be relied on to do it right.
Butch

 

[wv1720]

I would research a ram pump for moving the water into the pond. Search these on the internet, they require no power, just use gravity to pump water uphill.

 

[forgeblast]

Green describes what you have to shell out....We have looked at going solar, going windpower or doing a grid tie system with both but the payback vs payout just makes it impractical right now. I would love to be self-sufficient but we just cant afford it right now. hopefully the prices will drop.

 

[Lil_FarmerJim]

Yes, PV systems in general are not cheap, and the ROI is just not practical on a limited budget. But for the peace of mind it will provide you knowing you are not dependent on the grid, in my book, that's worth the money, sometimes.

But what blows my mind is the prices you have listed there, $5k for a solar pump system. What was the specs they quoted you? How many GPM pump? etc?

I've seen some very reasonable pricing at the Alt-E stores web site that make me think that guy was really over pricing things.

 

[tanglefoot]

Hey Jim,
Aren't those Alt-e stores you talked about the one you have to do-it-yourself on the installation? I agree you can save money, and it's because you are doing all the work.
Butch

 

[Lil_FarmerJim]

Hi Tanglefoot, yes Alt-E sells the parts (equipment) only. That's why I was curious why the cost was so much just for equipment.

I've bought some things from them and have been very pleased. There staff is knowledgable and can help you with most of your needs. If you have no idea about solar systems then you will need to consult with a qualified designer/installer. And as for the install allown, unless you are comfortable working with electricity and plumbing, you will need to hire a qualified electrician and plumber to do the work. But that would be on top of his equipment costs.

 

[MotorSeven]

Wind might be viable is a few parts of the county, but not at my place. I do have a big creek, not much head(drop), but a good flow rate, so I am working on a paddle wheel type of generator to try an tap that source. Another intersting concept is a solar tower surrounded by mirrors aimed at the top of the tower. It heats it up, then convection air current coming in the bottom of the tower turns a fan w/generator. I have the pasture room for a tower & I could construct it all myself, so I am kicking that around too.
Lil, he didn't break down the quote, it was a ball park, so I immediatly told him, "nevermind". It was for 2 175watt panels and a floating Sunmotor M30 pump tied directly to the panel....no batteries/only runs when the sun is up. At 6.6 feet of vertical rise, it would pump 6300 gals on a typical day. 5K.... I am still shaking my head.....
I will check out Alt-E.

So for the house I am looking at a wod fired air furnace with a hot water heat exchanger option. At least during the 5-6 months of winter it will give me cheap heat and free hot water.

Right now it loos like a PTO water pump from Northern Tool.....at least i can keep the pnd topped off.

RD

 

[MotorSeven]

Hmmm, Alt-E has the same type pumps. A smaller M-3 pump and a 75 watt panel is under $1,500. I sent an em to them and am awating a response.......

RD

 

[RonMar]

RD
the RAM pump needs some head/water drop to move any large ammount of water, but there may be a type of self powered pump that may work for you, especially with such a low lift requirement. Google "spiral pump". They look to be fairly easy to construct as they are just a coil of pipe in a paddle wheel structure. The stored energy in the rotating water inside the coil forces water out of the center of the coiled hose. Some of the demo's I have seen are capable of quite a lot of lift, but not a lot of pressure. Since you don't require either, you may be able to move quite a bit of water. The flow of the creek powers the whole process, so it would run 24/7 as long as the stream flows...

IMO, Going green is only practical if you can build the parts/systems yourself. The overhead and limited market, still keeps turnkey systems priced beyond what the average person can, or is willing to afford. VERY long return on investment.

 

[MossRoad]

Your money might be better spent on reconstructing the pond so it doesn't leak so much that you have to top it off with a pump.

 

[dmccarty]

Over the last year or so the Wall Street Journal has had a couple of articles about the price of PV getting cheaper. One article quite a while ago said the some very big companies were getting into PVs and that the price per watt would bet $1. The $1 per watt would be some sort of Holy Grail price point.

A month or so ago there was another article that said the price was down to $2 per watt.

We had a storm about that time that left us without power for 6-8 hours. So I went out and started looking at the cost of a 6,000 watt system tied to the grid. Just enough power to keep the fridge and freezers cold. A few lights. An run the well.

Long story short turnkey systems were $8-9 per watt!

6,000 watts times $8 = $48,000

Hmmmmm.... I don't think so.

There are a lot of hot air blowers in state capitals, Washington DC and Environmentalists Salons...

Later,
Dan

 

[RonMar]

Over the last year or so the Wall Street Journal has had a couple of articles about the price of PV getting cheaper. One article quite a while ago said the some very big companies were getting into PVs and that the price per watt would bet $1. The $1 per watt would be some sort of Holy Grail price point.

A month or so ago there was another article that said the price was down to $2 per watt.

We had a storm about that time that left us without power for 6-8 hours. So I went out and started looking at the cost of a 6,000 watt system tied to the grid. Just enough power to keep the fridge and freezers cold. A few lights. An run the well.

Long story short turnkey systems were $8-9 per watt!

6,000 watts times $8 = $48,000

Hmmmmm.... I don't think so.

There are a lot of hot air blowers in state capitals, Washington DC and Environmentalists Salons...

Later,
Dan

And your grid tied system wouldn't have done you any good in a power outtage, as they dont/won't operate without grid power available... They do make systems that do, but those would require a bank of batteries. Watts are watts regardless of the source, so to power a fridge, you need a battery bank with a capacity to power that load value for whatever duration you plan around, plus the conversion losses of storing and retrieving energy in a battery and making DC into AC...

 

[tommu56]

RD

Give these guys a call thats were I got my solar stuff from and well pump
Backwoods Solar Electric Systems

My panels and pump and controller and battery's (8 L16's) charge controller and inverter and related interconnected ran about $8,000.00 and I added 2 panels after that.

I did go with all Outback (Cadillac in my opinion)parts for the charge controller and inverter and panels

any Question pm me

tom

 

[dmccarty]

And your grid tied system wouldn't have done you any good in a power outtage, as they dont/won't operate without grid power available... They do make systems that do, but those would require a bank of batteries. Watts are watts regardless of the source, so to power a fridge, you need a battery bank with a capacity to power that load value for whatever duration you plan around, plus the conversion losses of storing and retrieving energy in a battery and making DC into AC...

Well the power was off at night so the PV's were not going to work. But the next morning they would have. Since watts is watts, why would the PV's not power the freezer? If there is 6,000 watts going into the house that is enough to power the fridge. We do have a grid disconnect already for the generator.

Later,
Dan

 

[MotorSeven]

Moss, it's not leaking....evaporating. It's in the middle of a 5ac pasture that is almost flat, so it gets no rainwater unless it's a frog choker. When I dug it I knew it would need help during the dry season.

I just got off the phone with Robinson Solar Systems in OK. They build their own brushless solar water pumps(YES, made in the USA), and have a complete system w/solar panel in the $1700 range that would do about 1100 gallons a day. This is more in line with the farm budget.

Here is their link:
Solar pump and solar pumps for solar water pumping from wells ponds and creeks

RD