Steers like a BARGE!

lakespirit · May 21, 2009

Yesterday all was well. Tonight, no power steering. All Fluids full. No major or new leaks. Any ideas??? KAMA TS 254

Diamondpilot · May 21, 2009

Does it steer at all? Is it a 1 or 2 pump tractor? I am assuming its a 1 pump tractor. If so does everything else work like the FEL and 3 point? If yes, its probably the steering cylinder. You may take a look at the priority valve but I doubt its it. I know the steering cylinder seals are a common item on the Jinma line but not sure on the Kama. Its a easy fix and for the Jinma and the parts are readily available and only $25 or so.

Chris

greg_g · May 21, 2009

lakespirit said:
Yesterday all was well. Tonight, no power steering. All Fluids full. No major or new leaks. Any ideas??? KAMA TS 254

When's the last time you changed the filter?

//greg//

Soundguy · May 22, 2009

Does it steer witht he front end jacked up.. but not steer with it on the ground?

if it uses a DA cyl on the front for steering, jack up the front steer over to lock on one side.. remove the 'exhaust' line and leave the pressure line hooked and continue steering against lock.. oil will exit the exhaust port on the cyl if the packing is bypassing.. if this is happening.. you will have -0- effective power steering.

post back more info

soundguy

Eagleview · May 22, 2009

lakespirit said:
Yesterday all was well. Tonight, no power steering. All Fluids full. No major or new leaks. Any ideas??? KAMA TS 254

Are the remote levers in neutral ?

greg_g · May 22, 2009

Keep it simple guys. It has two pumps, two sumps (both filtered) no remotes. In short, steering hydraulics are completely independent of main hydraulics. It's not a conventionally anchored DA cylinder either, there is no drag link. The TS steering cylinder is a smaller (but imbedded) version of the one in the photo.

//greg//

bluechip · May 22, 2009

Besides the filter that greg mentioned. the other possibility is the PR valve built into the pump is stuck open. did it quit just after turning hard to stop? We have not seen it on the KAMA but since the engine is the same as the Jinmas, and the ps pump has the same drive as the main pump on the 200 series Jinma, it could be the tang on the pump, or the slot in the drive has worn and stopped turning the pump... If you can still make the wheels turn by heavy effort on the wheel, the "steering motor" or control valve is probably OK. Blown seal in the cylinder will usually affect holding position, but not the power steering effect itself.

Soundguy · May 22, 2009

greg_g said:
Keep it simple guys. It has two pumps, two sumps (both filtered) no remotes. In short, steering hydraulics are completely independent of main hydraulics. It's not a conventionally anchored DA cylinder either, there is no drag link. The TS steering cylinder is a smaller (but imbedded) version of the one in the photo.

//greg//

my test shold still works and apply 100%.. it is still a DA funcion cyl.. even if it has exposed rod at both ends.. it will still have 2 lines running to it... and one will be return,and one will be pressure, in a given steering direction.. if it is internally bypassing the internal seals and packing.. it should be obvious with flow across the cyl packing and out the other side.

soundguy

greg_g · May 22, 2009

Soundguy said:
my test shold still works and apply 100%..

Ok Chris. But you're shooting blind. Note I used the term "imbedded" when describing the cylinder. Your "test" could in some cases require partial disassembly of the front end. There's some easier stuff to check before digging in that deep.

Like I said, let's keep it simple to start. When the OP answers a few tractor-specific questions, those of us who actually OWN (or sell) the TS-series can and will move on to the more in-depth troubleshooting - including how/where to disconnect the cylinder lines.

//greg//

lakespirit · May 22, 2009

Chip, It still steers with a lot of effort, but it feels like it is trying to "unsteer" itself.

bluechip said:
Besides the filter that greg mentioned. the other possibility is the PR valve built into the pump is stuck open. did it quit just after turning hard to stop? We have not seen it on the KAMA but since the engine is the same as the Jinmas, and the ps pump has the same drive as the main pump on the 200 series Jinma, it could be the tang on the pump, or the slot in the drive has worn and stopped turning the pump... If you can still make the wheels turn by heavy effort on the wheel, the "steering motor" or control valve is probably OK. Blown seal in the cylinder will usually affect holding position, but not the power steering effect itself.

lakespirit · May 22, 2009

greg_g said:
When's the last time you changed the filter?

//greg//

What?? Why would I do that?

I am getting fluid to the steering cylinder because I removed one of the connections at the cylinder and got quite a mess of oil on the ground.

Eagleview · May 22, 2009

OK , back off everyone . greg_g will solve this one .

Diamondpilot · May 22, 2009

With you saying its trying to unsteer I still lean toward the seals in the cylinder.

Chris

bluechip · May 22, 2009

Is there any difference in steering with the engine running or shut off?

lakespirit · May 22, 2009

bluechip said:
Is there any difference in steering with the engine running or shut off?

Not really.

bluechip · May 23, 2009

OK, I'd go for the pump, either the PR valve built in is stuck open or there could be a problem with the drive tang/pump drive. Getting oil to the cylinder does not indicate a working pump. the rotary steering valve (steering motor) will pump the oil (this is why you can steer without the engine running, although very difficult). Also if the PR valve is malfunctioning, oil is still being pumped, the pump just bypasses and oil takes the course of least reisistance, when you take the line off, that becomes the easy way out. pushing against the cylinder is more difficult and the oil will just bypass once again.

greg_g · May 23, 2009

Iron Horse said:
OK , back off everyone . greg_g will solve this one .

Not necessary now. Chip's gone where I was going to go, had I ever gotten a reasonable response to the filter question.

//greg//

Soundguy · May 23, 2009

greg_g said:
Ok Chris. But you're shooting blind. Note I used the term "imbedded" when describing the cylinder. Your "test" could in some cases require partial disassembly of the front end. There's some easier stuff to check before digging in that deep.

Like I said, let's keep it simple to start. When the OP answers a few tractor-specific questions, those of us who actually OWN (or sell) the TS-series can and will move on to the more in-depth troubleshooting - including how/where to disconnect the cylinder lines.

//greg//

Dos it really require that much disassembly to simply remove the lines?.. ( guess you get what you pay for i

pay me now or pay me later )

soundguy

greg_g · May 23, 2009

Soundguy said:
Dos it really require that much disassembly to simply remove the lines?.

Chris. I'm pretty sure your intentions are good. But the fact that you even have to ask that question, is proof enough that you've never even seen one of these TS-series.

I own one, Chip services them. Is it that difficult for you to just watch for a change?

//greg//

lakespirit · May 24, 2009

bluechip said:
OK, I'd go for the pump, either the PR valve built in is stuck open or there could be a problem with the drive tang/pump drive. Getting oil to the cylinder does not indicate a working pump. the rotary steering valve (steering motor) will pump the oil (this is why you can steer without the engine running, although very difficult). Also if the PR valve is malfunctioning, oil is still being pumped, the pump just bypasses and oil takes the course of least reisistance, when you take the line off, that becomes the easy way out. pushing against the cylinder is more difficult and the oil will just bypass once again.

Can they be repaired or do I need to buy one? What parts and cost, or how much is the pump?