What's happened here?

[B2400 owner]

Hey guys, any thoughts on why my hydraulic fluid would look like the jar on the left after only about 20 minutes run time total. The jar on the right is new fluid. If you read my post above, you know what issues I am having with the hydraulic system. I am hoping somebody can help me here.
Thanks

 

[DieselPower]

I don't see a link to another post but from the picture it looks like the oil is either contaminated with water or has been badly aerated. If it's not water then check for a leak on the suction side of the system.

 

[J_J]

Hey guys, any thoughts on why my hydraulic fluid would look like the jar on the left after only about 20 minutes run time total. The jar on the right is new fluid. If you read my post above, you know what issues I am having with the hydraulic system. I am hoping somebody can help me here.
Thanks

After sitting for awhile, did the fluid separate? Does it still look the same? If it's air,it will come to the top, and the fluid will look normal.
You probably have water in your system now, and you need to drain and put new fluid in, flush, and do it again. Then find and stop the water leak. If tractor is left outside, use a good tarp to cover.

 

[J_J]

B2400 owner

This picture should be in every tractor owners manual, under troubleshooting, and problems.

 

[Farmerford]

I agree with DieselPower: its either air or water. If it is air the volume of the fluid will expand significantly. So, if the fluid level rises quite a bit when you run the machine it is probably air.

There is probably a leak in the suction line or a blocked screen. I think that model has a screen on the banjo bolt that connects the suction line to the transmission sump. To clean it you have to remove the banjo bolt.

 

[Soundguy]

Ditto what the others said.

neither is good.. air entrainment.. or water emulsion.

both lead to cavitation and dead pumps.

if this is palin hyd fluid.. did you buy a non foaming type?

in any case.. decide if water or air. then procede accordingly.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

If you have access to a centrifuge it would quickly make an oil/water separation so you can see what you have.

 

[J_J]

B2400 owner,

Just use one half of the good fluid in another jar with some water and shake it up real good and see if it looks similar.

 

[kennyd]

THIS is the post he meant when he said "above"

Like whats already said...You either have air or water leaking in. If it's air you need to check all the return lines on the suction side of the pump. If you continue running it that way you will destroy the pump.

 

[dex3361]

You can do a crackle test to see if it is water in the oil or air entrainment. Following is a good description of how to do a crackle test if interested.
Oil analysis and lubrication learning center

 

[Soundguy]

heat seperation looking for steam works well too.

soundguy

 

[PSDStu]

I would think if it was air being sucked in ....... then it must be making a heck of a racket!

I am leaning more towards water.....but I could be wrong.

 

[B2400 owner]

Well............... After reading through everyones replies, and looking at what was in the bottom of that nasty jar of fluid after it sat all night, I drained the rest of the oil out and took my filter screen out.
Long story short, the first picture is what my screen looked like and the second is what came out of the fluid when I ran it through a couple of screen and a filter. The black crud is rubber that I think must have been washed into the system when the fire was put out by the fire hose.
I'm thinking about flushing the system with a good amount of diesel or clean fluid by pouring it into the filler with the drain plugs open. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
Hopefully a clogged strainer was the root of all my problems. I'm thinking the oil might just be dirty from the smoke of the burning rubber associated with the fire.

Thanks for all of Y'alls ideas and suggestions. Can't wait to do a crackle test.

 

[quarencia]

Many questions...

• Was the tractor running when it caught fire?
• Was it still running when the fire was put out?
• Were hoses burned through?

If so, then it might be possible to get burned rubber from hoses into the trans case. If not then, imho, it would be hard to get burned rubber from hoses into the trans, unless the firefighter (owner with a water hose? extinguisher?) hung out spraying water for quite some time.

More questions...
How is the 3ph lift performing? Did you lift anything (other than the lift arms) in the 20 minutes of run time?
Did you disassemble and replace seals on the 3ph cylinder, drop speed valve, control valve, flow priority valve, and pressure relief valve?

If the fire was hot enough all the seals in these components may be toasted (pun intended). I believe all of these components are on top of the B2400 trans.

Also, have you checked/changed the hydraulic filter? Is it crudded up as bad as the screen?

With that much rubber in the screen and trans after a fire, I'd be worried that seals in the trans were cooked and have lost a layer of rubber and will continue to disintegrate over time.

With only 20 minutes run time, I'd put money that there is rubber somewhere actively disintegrating.

 

[B2400 owner]

Quarencia, the tractor was inside a building when the fire started. The tractor was owned by the Town where I work and I happened to be there when the thing caught on fire( I'm a Detective with the Town). Basically, the key was left on by an employee and the fusible link apparently didn't do it's job.
I was the first one there and got to watch it burn(tears in my eyes) and almost burn the building down it was stored in. The fire fighters had to hose it down pretty good because of the diesel, plastic, and rubber being well involved. I remember thinking to myself,-I'm glad thats not my tractor-. It was hosed for probably about 3-4 minutes all together.
I posted some pictures of the before and after. I'm quite a bit farther along now than the after pictures, but still have some non-essential parts to buy like the plastic trim, mat, stickers. Oh yeah, I forgot about the $1000 worth of wiring, gauges, and safety switches.
The thing I love about a diesel is all that wiring is just for dress up. I f the glow plug and the starter have juice and the injection pump has fuel, It'll run fine.
I'm rambling, the fire was the hottest over the power steering box. I've already had it apart because the top seal was leaking, but the rest of the o-rings and gaskets were fine. i guess the oil probably protected them.
As far as the TPH, contrary to what it looks like in the pictures, it didn't get that hot. After peeling off the melted plastic from the seat and cover, the paint was perfect and no leeks from around the lowering adjustment.

Sorry for the lengthy response.
Brad

 

[J_J]

B2400 owner,

Why did you not start out this post with your last post with pictures. No one knew that you had a fire, and water was used to extinguish. There seems to be a lot more to the subject now that we know the rest of the story. When a vessel is heated, and then cooled down as with water, a vacuum is created and could suck in some water. If you have rubber debris in the fluid, I think I would start replacing hoses.

I went back and looked at some of your other post, and found out about the fire. If you guys want to read the rest of the story, here it is.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/143116-b2400-intermitent-hydraulic-problem.html

 

[Soundguy]

I'd dump some tras tune/seafoam in with the flush oil.. and a lil diesel as well.. .. then agitate and then flush.

transtune seafoam is specifically designed to dewater hyds/trans/power steering systems.. carries water in soloution.. also has detergents to suspend debri for flushing.

soundguy

 

[B2400 owner]

Hey guys, I would have posted a link to my other post, but I didn't know how. I thought I had mentioned the fire in the first post on theis thread.
When I first started on this project, all the hose were replaced, the pipe removed cleaned and painted, and the fluid and filters cleaned/ replaced. I thought I had gotten all of the nasty out. When I drained the fluid the first time, there was only a small amount of water that came out.
Soundguy, where would you suggest getting the trans tune/seafoam? I've never heard of it. Also, should the tractor be run for a while with the solution in it or just flushed with it.
Last night, I filled the tractor up with the cleaned/filtered fluid and ran it through several times. The last go around there was hardly any debris in it. I had planned on fputting the screen back in and filling it up this evening , then running it a few minutes and draining/filtering the fluid again to see what I get before I decide whether to use anything else to flush it with. Also wanting to see if the power steering and TPH will work now that the screen is clean.
Thanks again for Y'alls help
Brad

 

[Soundguy]

transtune is available at napa, walmart, autozone, discount auto, carquest.. etc.

directions are on the can, but says to dewater, add and then circulate for about 30 minutes then drain.. etc.

can also be added to the new oil to grab water in soloution to keep it from pooling.. etc.

soundguy

 

[B2400 owner]

Hey guys, after flushing the system about 5 times I finally got all the bits out and the fluid actually looked alot better, not nearly as milky. I cranked it up and..............still no power steering. The TPH worked like a charm again and again, lifting my body weight just fine(felt like a kid on a ride). There was no noise or vibration from the pump, but like I said, the power steering was still dead. I could hear the motor bog when the TPH was all the way up so I feel good about the rest of the system.
I guess I'll go ahead and tear the power steering unit the rest of the way down and rebuild it. Hopefully that is the culprit(the last culprit that is). Any one have any other ideas?

Man, it's nice to have somewhere to talk about this. For some reason, the wife acts as if she could care less about my hydraulic problems.

Brad