Im losing faith fast,

[KenGod]

I have had my ck20hst w/ loader/backhoe/blade for 1 1/2 years now, once again its dead where it sits, and it so happens to be on my island im clearing out.

In the short time I have owned it its been in shop way to many times in my opinion, I dont even work it hard

3 times for the backhoe levels not working, finally he replaced the entire valve/ball/arm assemblie
3 times because it wont shut, finally traced a bad connection
1 time for a bad ignition switch, wouldn't start, replaced it
1 time for 2 moderately leaking backhoe stabilizer arm valves
1 time because the brake pedal rubbed against the hydro line and cut into the rubber.

and now today im digging up little stumps with the backhoe and it sounds like one of the valves is stuck open, none of the backhoe controls works, When I put the hdyro pto arm in neutral you can tell something is stuck because the load is gone off the engine, engage the arm again and the engine loads up, looking at the valves they all move in all directions, something must be stuck inside the valve, now my dealer is going to have to come to my place jump onto the island and repair it in the field, so much for working on my project today.

Anyone else have this many problems with there kioti?
I hate to say it but im thinking I should have bought green, made in usa

Frustrated, Ken

 

[JonKioti]

Hi Ken,

I'm sorry to hear to the problems, that must be frustrating, especially given your location.

You didn't say who was doing the servicing - is it you due to your location or is there a dealer involved?

While I cannot say I have had the same situation with my tractor, I did have a similar problem with my truck. All the re-occuring problems went away once the warranty was up and I took the truck to a different garage instead of the dealer.

It only takes one mechanic who doesn't have enough experience to cause a lot of problems, even in the best dealerships/service centers.

You might consider appealing to Kioti if all the problems are with Kioti brand bits.

Good luck. You do have a good tractor, and I don't say that lightly.

Jon

 

[rcrcomputing]

You have had more than your fair share of issues at 1 1/2 years. OTOH, I have not had mine in the shop in the 4 years I've owned it. Though I should have as the hydo "radiator" does leak a bit. But my dealer is a longggg way away and I let it go out of warranty.

Wonder why several of your problems are hydro related.. hmm

Hope you get some ideas here. Good luck!

 

[JoelD]

I wonder is there is anything such as a lemon law with regards to tractors. With that said, I'd got through the process with your dealer, this should all fall under warranty as much of it sounds related.

Is there another dealer you can obtain service from?

Joel

 

[KenGod]

Its not the dealer, They have been great, Since I use to be a GM tech, i know its hard to trace down electrical problems, s I dont blame my dealer for my problems, The Kioti has actually only been to the dealer twice, All the other times the dealer has come to the house and fix it. Its all been under warranty and he doesn't charge for the house call, I only live about 5 miles from them. Its the machine that keeps letting me down not my dealer,
Unfortunately for them, Tomorrow, I do plan on letting him know that the non stop break downs are getting Very Old and my patience with the product is wearing Very thin. $17k investment and its always leaving me high and dry.

Since its an 07' and kioti gives 4 year warranty, Im still covered for a few years yet,( one good thing in all this bad) but Im not sure I will be able to put up with 2 more years of monthly (or so) break downs

KEN

 

[IslandTractor]

Hope things turn around for you. It does sound like you've been chasing more than your share of gremlins. Lucky you have a good dealer so close by.

Do you have the KB2365 or KB2465 backhoe? I know there were valve issues with the earlier model but thought they (the Kioti subcontractor) got that under control with the new model.

What was backhoe stabilizer moderate leakdown issue? Or was it a leak? Leakdown is pretty standard with all backhoe cylinders as I'm sure you know. What was it that got your attention?

The ignition problem related to the switch is one of the well documented Achilles' Heels for the CK. At least it is a simple fix.

Regarding Green. You'd have to be in the 50HP plus size range to get anything Green made in the USA. Consumer Reports just gave Green lawn mowers the lowest reliability score so even they have troubles.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

While you have had a lot of total problems if you break it down between tractor problems and back hoe problems then technically you only had three problems with the tractor (it just took the shop multiple times to figure out the problem) and the same with the backhoe. Hopefully you will have a similar experience as I did with my TN. The first year it seemed like it was always in the shop but since then it has been very reliable for the last 8+ years and is only now starting to develop little problems that need to be addressed after 1400 hours. Good luck to you.

 

[KenGod]

Hope things turn around for you. It does sound like you've been chasing more than your share of gremlins. Lucky you have a good dealer so close by.

Do you have the KB2365 or KB2465 backhoe? I know there were valve issues with the earlier model but thought they (the Kioti subcontractor) got that under control with the new model.

What was backhoe stabilizer moderate leakdown issue? Or was it a leak? Leakdown is pretty standard with all backhoe cylinders as I'm sure you know. What was it that got your attention?

The ignition problem related to the switch is one of the well documented Achilles' Heels for the CK. At least it is a simple fix.

Regarding Green. You'd have to be in the 50HP plus size range to get anything Green made in the USA. Consumer Reports just gave Green lawn mowers the lowest reliability score so even they have troubles.

The Bh is a 2365, (paid $5000) bought it last spring, So did I get the old problematic BH? it would be my luck

It wasnt leakdown, hydro was running down the piston.

I unhooked/hooked the quick connect hydro lines 3 or 4 times today and the sticking valve on the BH has seems to be gone now, for how long I dont know.

I know she is a very strong machine, It just gets very frustrating when she lets you down so often, when she works, she works like a team of mules. I hope sooner or later all my problems will be gone and I wont have to worry it she is going to poop the bed on the next project.

Ken

 

[bluechip]

It sounds to me like one of the quick connects that attaches the backhoe to the tractor is not properly seated. the checkvalve will block the flow of oil and provide teh exact symptoms you describe... worth a look.

 

[greenmule]

Not saying here that if a company sells something it doesn't have to work or anything like that,ok,but..

These little tractors are to little for a fel let alone a backhoe,problems bound to arise.

I wouldn't want a backhoe on anything less than about 50 hp[you'd think by the time you get a tractor with that many hp,body/frame/etc,would be big enough to handle it.]

Sounds like 80 percent of your problems come from hoe.

You need to fix that thing,sell it,and get you a much bigger tractor.

Kinda like plowing a field with a sears lawnmower,[love that picture of that]

 

[PA hayseed]

I had an experience like yours with my Cub Cadet tractor. I had that thing in the shop more than I had it working. It was everything from the belly mower, radiator leaks, bad boots, more radiator issues, more mower issues, cracked 3 point hitch etc etc. I traded it in on my Kioti. Since I have had the Kioti, I have had some problems but not the kind like I did with CC. Heck, I bought the CC because of their reputation.

I won't defend Kioti or knock them, that backhoe appears to be junk and someone (dealer or manufacturer) should be on the phone to make it right. I am not talking about a fix again, I'm talking about replacing it.

Been where you are, feel your pain. OTOH, I got to know my service guy at the dealership very well.

 

[Gittyup]

There's no relationship between the size of the backhoe/tractor and their realibility. There are plenty of machines out there with small backhoes, some even smaller than CK's, that work very well and are reliable. Mine has been great (and very useful) too. There are also true commercial backhoes under 50 HP that work for thousands of hours under very harsh conditions.

I will say, that when I was buying, I read a few posts where there were problems with the Kioti backhoes. For that reason, I went with a Rhino backhoe instead. However, after 3 years of reading and watching, there have been very few issues with them from what I can see. At the time of my purchase, I just wasn't so sure. Were I buying today, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Kioti backhoe.

I know it's frustrating for things to fail when you are depending on them to get something done. Hopefully, you'll get to the bottom of these last issues and then have 100's of trouble free hours.

 

[rcrcomputing]

These little tractors are to little for a fel let alone a backhoe,problems bound to arise.

I wouldn't want a backhoe on anything less than about 50 hp[you'd think by the time you get a tractor with that many hp,body/frame/etc,would be big enough to handle it.]

I think your crazy..

Sounds like 80 percent of your problems come from hoe.

You need to fix that thing,sell it,and get you a much bigger tractor.

Kinda like plowing a field with a sears lawnmower,[love that picture of that]

I think he's just had a few more than his fair share of problems, but it's not been fun for the dealer either. It comes under the heading "shlt happens". Just deal with it..
Looking over the problems, I don't see a "lemon". I just see a few more kinks than normal to work out. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[IslandTractor]

The Bh is a 2365, (paid $5000) bought it last spring, So did I get the old problematic BH? it would be my luck

Yep.

That said, it sounds like they replaced the main valves which I believe were the main problem area with that 2365 BH. I had one myself and it worked great on my CK20, I never had any problems with it at all. Luck of the draw.

 

[IslandTractor]

I wouldn't want a backhoe on anything less than about 50 hp[you'd think by the time you get a tractor with that many hp,body/frame/etc,would be big enough to handle it.]

Dare ya to walk into a convention of BX23, 24, 25 owners and make that statement.

I think it is a matter of matching the BH and tractor. The CK can clearly handle a 6ft BH with ease. I found the CK20/KB2365 match up to be every bit as effective as my DK40se/BH90x combo. In fact, while the bigger tractor/BH can obviously do more it doesn't do twice as much despite twice the horsepower. The Kubota BX 23 etc series has a well matched BH and tractor too. I'd love to have one for the smaller jobs.

 

[rimshot]

350 hours on my CK20 with KB2465 backhoe saddled on at least half of those hours. The unit managed to gobble up every stump large and small that got in it's way and the bh has performed without missing a beat. This backhoe is a solid performer so far as I am concerned.

rimshot

 

[greenmule]

Well,as a matter of fact,I am crazy,but thats got nothing to do with them little tractors with a back hoe on them.

People get these little things and think they got a dozer,little toy hoe is gonna break,[if you use it like a backhoe].

 

[J_J]

KenGod,

I think you should put a pressure gage in the line going to the BH, and see if you have pressure. Then put the gage in the line going to the boom. Something on the BH should work if you have fluid going to the valve. You said the engine was loading up, that means that the fluid is blocked somewhere. Try some different QD's, Feel the hose before and after the QD's. You should feel it jerk when pressure is applied. You can track down most problems with a pressure gage. Simple to make and use.

 

[Jaybr]

I'm starting to loose faith as well. My CK was in the shop 3 times in the first year with starting issues, the solenoid on the fuel pump wouldn't open. The dealer replaced fuel pump, switches, solenoids, etc then on the last trip the entire wiring harness. They told me if that didn't fix it they where pushiing Kioti for a new tractor.

Then last summer I had a power steering hose blow out, I pulled the hose off and dealer had one shipped directly to me.

Then yesterday a seal or something blew out in the hydraulic pump, oil running out when the tractor is running and little to no hydraulics.

To top all that off, my great dealer, which was one of the reasons I went Kioti, sold the business and the new owners dropped Kioti for Kubota.

 

[darkviper]

I think this has got into a blame game here. First of all the guy that says that the tractor is to small. OK you speak some truth and then you are over reacting to. Its like this you would not use a 3/4 truck to pull 24 tons of gravel. However you can pull 5 tons all day long. Same applies to the backhoe. You are right there are some that dont know where the limitation lies and then tries to do to much. But others of us know what we can and cant do and for them the machine is just fine. I will put my Bh agianst anyone on with a 50 HP and do the same work with two exceptions. One it will take me longer and two i cant lift as much with it. Otherwise it will be just fine aslong as i dont beat it.

Now to the orginal question about moving the hydro pump arms to the off position and the tractor loads down. I am assuming at this piont that you are talking about the remote valve or yellow handle. If this is the case the very first thing i would suspect is the Quick Disconnect. I have seen times on larger tractor where either the ball on the male end will not make contact to the female end or the female end is worn and not allowing the ball to open. I have even had this happen while running a loader ona 100 HP tractor. It turned out to be that the tab in the Female end had finally worn enough that the ball closed as if it was not even connected and the circut was closed. What i suspect you are hearing is that the Bypass valve has opend thus the excess load on the engine because of the closed circut.

These tractors i think are a normally open system. So it is possible that one of the valves in the backhoe iteslf could be bad but that would require that a valve be locked in a up or down position. If you have dirt blocking it then i would get the filter changed ASAP!!!

But in all honesty I think you should start with the QD then work back. you can even try reversing them. the BH wont work but you can see if the engine will load up or not. Keep us informed Id like to know what the outcome is.