"Construction Attachments" 4 in 1 bucket

[dfkrug]

Your experiences show the Achilles Heel(s) of the 4n1 on a CUT. If they are light then they are vulnerable to damage (especially with bulldozing) and if they are heavily built then they weigh a ton and cut your lift capacity. 4n1 buckets make sense on powerful construction loaders but on CUTs have considerable limitations as well as being expensive.

I am sure my WRLong 4n1 would not last on a rental machine. Like any
implement, it has its limitations. Working within that framework and being
careful, it is a very valuable tool to me. Any implement that has to endure
the kinetic energy of the tractor it is attached to should not be undersized
for it.

BTW, when I use my 4n1 dozer function, I am more concerned about the
loader arm flex (and possible damage) than I am about the bucket itself. My
KL130 loader has a bit of flex, as I am sure you know. I am most concerned
about the thin carcass getting dented by rocks, and packing dirt into that
hard-to-grease pivot.

A few years ago I questioned whether or not 4n1s made sense on compact
tractors.....I am convinced of their value now.

 

[IslandTractor]

IBTW, when I use my 4n1 dozer function, I am more concerned about the
loader arm flex (and possible damage) than I am about the bucket itself. .

I think the vulnerable point is mid way along the back half of the clamshell (the vertical non moving blade). That is unsupported and if you had the bucket open (that is what I mean by bulldoze) and you hit an immovable object (hidden rock, stump etc) at that point it could bend. When it bends it prevents you from closing the bucket normally again. In that sense it is different than a regular bucket which can definitely be bent but which will still function despite being beaten up.

 

[Builder]

I bent my 4 in 1 on my old L-35 while backdragging. Like was said, just know its' limitations.

 

[jmfox]

For me the limitation was carring a log at idle speed. I couldn't carry it sideways out of the woods so I picked it up by the root ball with the trunk extending foward. The first time I bent the bucket I blamed it on rocks that I was digging out the same day. I never thought a tree that I could easily pickup and carry would deform my bucket. So, after receiving my bucket with a brand new clam piece, I bent it again with another tree.

jmf

 

[IslandTractor]

I think it is important for folks who are interested in 4n1 buckets to understand these limitations. I own one and do find it useful but it is not the all purpose tool that it's name implies. I keep using the Swiss Army Knife analogy which I still think is valid. I keep a Swiss Army Knife around because it is convenient to have all those tools in one place but I would never assume that such a knife is the best tool for any job. I really like my 4n1 primarily as an all purpose loader attachment when I am digging holes or stumps with my backhoe. It allows me to fix the area up after I am done digging and cart away the stump/rock whatever without taking two trips.

To me the real problem with 4n1 buckets for CUTs is that they are pretty expensive for the functions you get and that most of the functions are actually much better accomplished with a purpose built implement. No one should be fooled thinking that a 4n1 is as good at grappling material as a regular grapple or as good at bulldozing as a box blade or as relatively indestructible as a standard bucket. For the price of a decent 4n1 (about $2000) you can get a separate grapple and a boxblade to supplement your standard bucket so thate is no good economic reason to have a 4n1. They can be justified for convenience and especially for people who work with their tractors far from where they store their other implements (like a construction crew for example). Still, so long as potential purchasers know the limitations the 4n1 can be a valuable though rather expensive tool.

 

[Builder]

That's why I want a used 4 in 1 bucket. Unfortunately, by the time I got a shipping quote, the Woods 4 in 1 bucket I wanted to buy has sold.

It was a great deal-sold for $950 bucks!

 

[IslandTractor]

That's why I want a used 4 in 1 bucket. Unfortunately, by the time I got a shipping quote, the Woods 4 in 1 bucket I wanted to buy has sold.

It was a great deal-sold for $950 bucks!

Be patient. 4n1 buckets do show up on eBay. I got mine that way. It was a deal as I got a nearly new WRLong standard weight 4n1 plus the Long diverter valve kit both for $500 plus a couple hundred for shipping. Cost me a bit more to modify the JD mount to skidsteer but it was still quite a deal.

 

[dfkrug]

I think the vulnerable point is mid way along the back half of the clamshell (the vertical non moving blade). That is unsupported and if you had the bucket open (that is what I mean by bulldoze) and you hit an immovable object (hidden rock, stump etc) at that point it could bend. When it bends it prevents you from closing the bucket normally again. In that sense it is different than a regular bucket which can definitely be bent but which will still function despite being beaten up.

When I use the dozer function, I never abuse the bucket by using the
momentum of the tractor. I often take it to the limit of my 5000+ lb tractor's
traction and force in lowest range. Without damage so far.

From the perspective of construction use of a CUT, there is no implement
that can move and place small piles of materials as well as a 4-in-1. By
materials I mean sand, gravel, fill dirt, etc, not brush.

I moved a few dozen of these wet 6' long oak logs in the past few weeks.

 

[IslandTractor]

When I use the dozer function, I never abuse the bucket by using the
momentum of the tractor. I often take it to the limit of my 5000+ lb tractor's
traction and force in lowest range. Without damage so far.

From the perspective of construction use of a CUT, there is no implement
that can move and place small piles of materials as well as a 4-in-1. By
materials I mean sand, gravel, fill dirt, etc, not brush.

I moved a few dozen of these wet 6' long oak logs in the past few weeks.

I agree that for a construction site the 4n1 makes sense, that is the single best use I can think of.

 

[Builder]

When I use the dozer function, I never abuse the bucket by using the
momentum of the tractor. I often take it to the limit of my 5000+ lb tractor's
traction and force in lowest range. Without damage so far.

From the perspective of construction use of a CUT, there is no implement
that can move and place small piles of materials as well as a 4-in-1. By
materials I mean sand, gravel, fill dirt, etc, not brush.

I moved a few dozen of these wet 6' long oak logs in the past few weeks.

With a tractor that light, you don't stand much of a chance at damaging your 4 in 1.

 

[jmfox]

Well said.

jmf

I think it is important for folks who are interested in 4n1 buckets to understand these limitations. I own one and do find it useful but it is not the all purpose tool that it's name implies. I keep using the Swiss Army Knife analogy which I still think is valid. I keep a Swiss Army Knife around because it is convenient to have all those tools in one place but I would never assume that such a knife is the best tool for any job. I really like my 4n1 primarily as an all purpose loader attachment when I am digging holes or stumps with my backhoe. It allows me to fix the area up after I am done digging and cart away the stump/rock whatever without taking two trips.

To me the real problem with 4n1 buckets for CUTs is that they are pretty expensive for the functions you get and that most of the functions are actually much better accomplished with a purpose built implement. No one should be fooled thinking that a 4n1 is as good at grappling material as a regular grapple or as good at bulldozing as a box blade or as relatively indestructible as a standard bucket. For the price of a decent 4n1 (about $2000) you can get a separate grapple and a boxblade to supplement your standard bucket so thate is no good economic reason to have a 4n1. They can be justified for convenience and especially for people who work with their tractors far from where they store their other implements (like a construction crew for example). Still, so long as potential purchasers know the limitations the 4n1 can be a valuable though rather expensive tool.

 

[dfkrug]

With a tractor that light, you don't stand much of a chance at damaging your 4 in 1.

I bought my 4-in-1 used and it had already been bent on the top lip. This
was from using the momentum of the tractor I will bet. I have fixed several
regular FEL bkts that were bent severely by the operator running them at
speed into various stationary objects. Even a 3500# tractor moving at
several miles/hr can do some serious damage to a FEL. The designers of
these implements are factoring in a certain amount of force anticipated by
the tractor they are intended for. They are probably NOT anticipating
forces resulting from driving a tractor more than a couple of mph into an
immovable load.

 

[IslandTractor]

The designers of
these implements are factoring in a certain amount of force anticipated by
the tractor they are intended for. They are probably NOT anticipating
forces resulting from driving a tractor more than a couple of mph into an
immovable load.

I agree it is the "bulldozer" function of the 4n1 that is most likely to cause trouble. If you start with the dozer blade against an object and push it is very unlikely you would damage the blade or FEL but if you get up a head of steam and then ram into an unmovable object either the blade or the FEL arms suffer. Real bulldozers have short stubby arms and massive blades and they also travel more slowly.

 

[jmfox]

I think the problem is weight. My experience with full size construction grade equipment was that a bent bucket meant abuse. Enter compacts and "attachments" and you can't assume if it will lift it you can move it. Even at an idle I bet I can bend any 4n1 bucket without help of speed, momentum, sudden movement or stop. Strength of compact attachments is limited by weight. When I put my 4n1 over my head and crawl up there, it is pretty scary to see that I can shake the machine with very little body movement.

jmf