Talked with my dealer just now. Pulled the connector under the running board of the tractor and it is fine. No burnt pins. So now I am checking ALL the connectors. The two connectors coming straight out of the fuse holder both have a pin that is completely burnt off. So this is the quality of the Korean tractor. After five years you need to replace the wiring harness because the connectors are real junk. Will talk to my dealer tomorrow and see if he can replace that harness for me. Gonna cost some money though that I'm not too happy about.
CK 20 Won't Start!
- Thread starter aosbill
- Start date
- Views: 16338
jake98
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,881
- Location
- Dingmans Ferry PA
- Tractor
- 53 Cub, 70's JD 410, Kioti 25hst
So to continue the 'quality' part of the conversation, have you had other breakdowns in the five years? I'm a new Kioti owner with a couple problems with it, but the machine seems like it's really well made. Except it broke again, electrical this time, but when the injector pump malfunctioned it over-reved until I shut the fuel off. Had my heart pumping...
Jake
Jake
intel
Silver Member
there might be a reason they burnt be sure the right amp fuses are installed. if anything go lower just a bit.
irwin
Veteran Member
Good you finally found it. Forget the poor me's, this is a straight forward problem. Fix it and get back in the seat.
If I was looking to save money I'd do a repair myself. If this is something that can be by-passed ..do that, you can always replace the harness later.
Glad the mystery is over...good luck with the fix.......
Take that back. I THOUGHT there was a burnt pin on the connector coming from the fuse box but as it turns out there is no wire connection for that pin. So had the dealer send his man out to look at this thing. He brought a new fuse box, wiring harness, and ignition switch. We swapped out the fuse holder first. Still no dash lights or anything. Switched out the brand new ignition switch with his brand new ignition switch and still nothing. No lights on the dash just completely dead. Flashers and turn signals still work but that is it. So it's got to go to the shop because it looks like the only way to diagnose this problem is to pull the steering wheel and the shroud with the dash in tack. I have a Sims cab on it so that will have to come off. I do not have a very fuzzy feeling about this tractor at this point. The front loader needed a field kit installed on it and then the tredle pedal needed to be fixed, requiring the tractor be split in half. And now even the dealer doesn't know what the heck is wrong with this thing. I'm sure after several hundred dollars in shop labor and some hefty pickup and delivery charge this thing is going to cost me hundreds of dollars to get repaired. For a tractor that only has 130 hours on it and never got any sort of heavy duty use, I am very, very, disappointed with this machine. If Kioti doesn't help me out on this repair I will seriously consider selling this and getting something else that has a good track record. I just don't understand how a tractor sitting idle doing nothing for a few months, all of a sudden the electrical system fails.
To continue. The dealer called me this morning and we checked a few other things. First, pulled the +side of the battery cable from the battery. Put an meter from the battery end connector to the starter relay connector. Good connection. Unscrewed both nuts on the starter solenoid and removed them. Wire brushed and sandpapered all connections. From the wiring harness that comes off of the starter solenoid I pulled the connector that leads to the rear of the tractor. This connector has two big red wires that comes from the front of the tractor's harness. One wire has 12 volts the other has 0 volts. I'm assuming, and I could be wrong, one wire supplies 12v to the starter solenoid and the other must supply 12v to the ignition switch. According to the schematic in the manual, both these wires should have 12v supplied to them. So the only alternative to this problem is the wiring harness from the left side of the tractor must be kaput. Dealer will pick up on Monday and hopefully we'll have an answer by early next week.
I'm with you, my tractor has has more problems in four years than any of my equipment thats two times as old and has twice as many hour. At 200hrs my engine blew up leaving to fist size holes the the block. I've had to replace the ignition switch twice, the loader control lever once and now I have some big piece of junk bolted on my loader. Basically I feel like if I don't get rid of my tractor something else is going to happen to it and at this point I real don't care to fix anything else on a virtually new tractor. You get what you pay for.
malk315
Silver Member
Hi Aosbill-
I had a similar problem with my machine (about 165 hours now CK20) where my hazard lights were intermittent. A lot of tracing with voltmeter etc. I isolated it to the main harness connector below the parking brake / cruise control levers. It's the one with the most wires in it and the small pins in there are indeed lousey. I had corrosion for a couple small pins that were related to hazard lights and some on one of the bigger spades in that connector. I cleaned the best I could and filled with di-electric grease.
The problem is the hazards are intermittent again, so I'll need a new harness -- I also want to prevent any additional problems with the bigger spade that is getting corroded. I don't know what that wire does (I have shop manual and could find out), but if it's for glow plug relay or some other vital component I don't want to end up stuck down the road.
I was the one who posted pictures of the fuse block -- if anyone searches for posts by me, you'll find it.
Question for you: What dealer did you use who actually brought out another harness and other spare parts to try and get you going? I think that's fantastic that the dealer you used did that. My former dealer dropped Kioti -- I heard him complaining the new england rep from Kioti was annoying and wanted them to stock more tractors than they were willing or something to that effect. This would be Harvard Power Equipment in Harvard, MA.
I'd like to try going to your dealer for my next service and harness changeout potentially -- especially since you are in Massachusetts.
On the edge of my seat to find out the resolution for your machine.
I had a similar problem with my machine (about 165 hours now CK20) where my hazard lights were intermittent. A lot of tracing with voltmeter etc. I isolated it to the main harness connector below the parking brake / cruise control levers. It's the one with the most wires in it and the small pins in there are indeed lousey. I had corrosion for a couple small pins that were related to hazard lights and some on one of the bigger spades in that connector. I cleaned the best I could and filled with di-electric grease.
The problem is the hazards are intermittent again, so I'll need a new harness -- I also want to prevent any additional problems with the bigger spade that is getting corroded. I don't know what that wire does (I have shop manual and could find out), but if it's for glow plug relay or some other vital component I don't want to end up stuck down the road.
I was the one who posted pictures of the fuse block -- if anyone searches for posts by me, you'll find it.
Question for you: What dealer did you use who actually brought out another harness and other spare parts to try and get you going? I think that's fantastic that the dealer you used did that. My former dealer dropped Kioti -- I heard him complaining the new england rep from Kioti was annoying and wanted them to stock more tractors than they were willing or something to that effect. This would be Harvard Power Equipment in Harvard, MA.
I'd like to try going to your dealer for my next service and harness changeout potentially -- especially since you are in Massachusetts.
On the edge of my seat to find out the resolution for your machine.
Okay, here is the real deal. Apparently Kioti supposes everyone will garage these tractors because their wiring harnesses are not designed for inclement weather like we get here in New England. My dealer found that the wiring harness on the right side of the tractor coming from the battery leading up into the tractor's fuse box and then from the fuse block to the control panel of the tractor was defective. Apparently when Kioti manufactures these wiring harnesses they use a split loom tubing that they run the wires through. The split on the loom of these wiring harnesses was facing up. So when snow and rain entered the split loom, it stayed in there and froze and thawed and froze and thawed. It also leaked into the connectors and corroded all the connections. The replacement wiring harness came through all taped up. So Kioti is aware of this problem it seems else why would the new wiring harness be all taped up? So if you don't want any electrical problems with a Kioti tractor, may I suggest you find a nice warm place in the sumertime, remove all the wiring harnesses that you can find, and tape them up from head to toe and then use dielectric grease in all the connectors. Something that Kioti should already be doing. It is just common sense to anyone "other than Kioti engineers" that these little tractors are exposed to the worse kind of environment possible and they should be built to take it. My brother bought a Kubota the same time I bought my Kioti, and he has many more hours on his tractor than I have and hasn't had an iota of a problem with it. So you know what my next tractor will be. His tractor also sits outside in the weather. To answer your question, my tractor is being taken care of by the dealer that I purchased it from- Ken's Tractor Truck in Troy N.H. If you want the phone number let me know and I'll send it to you in an email. Just leave a link to your e-mail here and I'll send you the information.
natem
Silver Member
Thanks for the tip on the di-grease, and tape. Cant wait to check mine tomorow, I can only imagine what I will find because it sat out side all summer, and is out now in the rain tonight.
Just got a call from my friend and dealer in N.H. and they are buttoning up the cab to get ready to deliver my tractor back here. I cannot say enough GOOD about Ken's Tractor & Truck in Troy, N.H. I bought my tractor from Ken's over five years ago and at that time Ken sold me the tractor. I am not sure but I think Ketch and Bruce bought out Ken and took over the dealership. Anyway, I would just like to tell Kioti that of all the companies and dealerships I have dealt with over the years, both in my profession and with my automobiles, Ken's far exceeds my expectations when it comes to service after the sale. Kioti should consider making Ken's Tractor "Dealer of the year in my book". Through all these breakdowns that I have experienced with my CK20HST I can only blame the Kioti company engineers. These problems all stem from faulty design. However, to give Kioti bad publicity would only serve to alienate their products from the rest of us that are enjoying many hours of tough service from these little tractors. Kioti has been building tractors for many years and I think do a pretty good job in spite of some equipment design flaws that ALL companies experience. Demand for newer designs and cheaper prices forces manufacturers to sometimes rush a design into production without adequate testing. So dealing with recalls seems to be the route that all manufacturers are using these days. And I think Kioti has done a pretty good job of handling recalls at least in my case, but could be a little bit more acommodating in admitting to some failures caused by design flaws. As for the fix on the front loader arms, I was happy to get mine repaired. However, I would say that I think Kioti should have paid for the entire repair including the pick-up and delivery charges incurred by the dealer in both instances, for the repair of the loader arms, and the treddle pedal. Also for the pickup and delivery charges for this wiring harness repair. It is only fair I think that if you design a product that fails and requires an in-shop repair, the entire cost of repair should be paid by the manufacturer, (parts, labor, and pick-up and delivery charges). Kioti has been selling their reputation on the fact that they have been building tractors for over 50 years now so I think by now they should have gotten it right. So far since I have owned this little tractor it has done all that I have used it for, done it well, has always been there when I needed it, and I think the mechanical portion of this tractor is very well built and very strong for such a small tractor. Like anything else you buy these days, you are going to have problems with it, no matter what you buy or where you buy it from. But the most important thing you need to know is (Is my dealer and the manufacturer going to work together to support me when I have a problem and how far will the manufacturer go in supporting their claim to quality and their dealers when they have a problem?) So far Ken's Tractor has been there for me whenever I needed them, they have gone above and beyond expectations compared to other dealers I have dealt with. Cudo's to Ken's Tractor. Kioti, if you read this, be extra nice to Ken's Tractor, this dealership is an asset to your company. Treat them as such.
jake98
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,881
- Location
- Dingmans Ferry PA
- Tractor
- 53 Cub, 70's JD 410, Kioti 25hst
That's good to hear. Mine sits outside. Glad you got it fixed.
intel
Silver Member
I need to check my 2003 DK45 for this. I have noticed when it sets outside for a week or so the PTO switch does not want to work right unless you work it back and forth a few times i have sprayed WD40 on it and it has helped.
Got my CK20HST back yesterday and all is working well. I think it would be wise for me here to tell all Kioti tractor owners or would be Kioti tractor owners to take the time to disassemble some of the cowlings around the steering column of your tractors and disassemble the connectors, put some dielectric grease on all connectors, then reassemble the connectors as a precaution against moisture. It appears to be a weak point with the Kioti tractor line. I don't know why Kioti doesn't do this right at the factory level. It would really alleviate many electrical failures. When spring comes around again I will do exactly that with all the electrical connections on this tractor. It will be worth the effort it will take. So I am ready for the snow now. May I make a suggestion here Kioti? Where the hood of the tractor meets the shroud around the instrument panel, how about putting a rubber gasket there that will seal the gap between the hood and the shroud. This appears to be where most of the water can infiltrate the wiring harnesses on this tractor. I used a soft rubber (like a tire inner tube) and connected it to my simms cab and let it droop down over that gap between the hood and the shroud. That way water will not go between the hood and shroud and get into the wiring harness and it is still flexible enough to allow me to open the hood all the way. Anyway, I'm just happy that the tractor is back home and ready for the snow that I am sure will come all too soon. It's been a long and expensive repair that could have been avoided with a $9.00 tube of dielectric grease. Go figure. Let's rethink these wiring harnesses Kioti, please. It's the only negative thing I have to say about your little tractors. Everything else about this tractor is top notch, very well built, strong and heavy. So get the wiring harnesses up to snuff and you'll really scare the pants off of the others.
As a follow up to this issue. Kioti did cover the cost of parts and 1.5 hours labor to fix this. Kudo's to you Kioti. It's nice to know that there is a company out there, even if foreign in nature, has the desire to satisfy their customers. The dealer also needs a Kudo's for doing such a fine job with this issue. Overall I am very satisfied with how this all came out. I am very happy with this little tractor. As I stated in another post of mine, it is a sturdily built tractor mechanically and serves a purpose and can take all you give it.
Dmace
Elite Member
Good to know, thanks for the update!
unhappykioti
Silver Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2006
- Messages
- 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by aosbill
Put key in ignition and turn to any position and nothing happens. No dash lights or anything. Tractor lights come on and blinkers etc. But nothing from the ignition switch works. I replaced the battery, battery connectors, cleaned the ground connection between the ground wire and the tractor, replaced the ignition switch and still nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are getting close the the snow season here in New England.
=======================
Could there be a safety switch in need of being disabled? i.e. seat belt safey switch.
rimshot
Thank God for this forum. My CK20HST had the exact same symptoms as aosbill, replaced the ignition switch got dash lights, glow plugs cycled but would not engage starter, started looking for other problems couldn't find any so I decided to search this forum for suggestions and found this post. Read rimshot's reply to aosbill and the light came on, went outside sat on the seat PUSHED IN THE CLUTCH and voila it started, I guess the only thing I needed to do was pull my head out of my behind. Thanks guys!!
Originally Posted by aosbill
Put key in ignition and turn to any position and nothing happens. No dash lights or anything. Tractor lights come on and blinkers etc. But nothing from the ignition switch works. I replaced the battery, battery connectors, cleaned the ground connection between the ground wire and the tractor, replaced the ignition switch and still nothing. Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are getting close the the snow season here in New England.
=======================
Could there be a safety switch in need of being disabled? i.e. seat belt safey switch.
rimshot
Thank God for this forum. My CK20HST had the exact same symptoms as aosbill, replaced the ignition switch got dash lights, glow plugs cycled but would not engage starter, started looking for other problems couldn't find any so I decided to search this forum for suggestions and found this post. Read rimshot's reply to aosbill and the light came on, went outside sat on the seat PUSHED IN THE CLUTCH and voila it started, I guess the only thing I needed to do was pull my head out of my behind. Thanks guys!!
=====================================
Certainly happy to hear your good news. This forum has served me well over the last year or so and I always seem to get more in return than I am able to leave. Thanks for the feedback
rimshot
malk315
Silver Member
Hey all-
It's been many months since I posted here and it's been an insane year.
I've moved to Lancaster, MA after building a new house over the last 8 months and I'm excited since the new house is more worthy of the machine I have. My old house was 1 acre of land w/ an 80 foot driveway. New house is just over 2 acres w/ 200 foot driveway.
That leads to the reason I'm replying to this post. My machine has been doing well and the move prevented me from really getting her wiring harness fixed, but finally yesterday I loaded her up and drove 40 miles up to Ken's tractor.
I called Ketch and Bruce earlier in the week and even though it was tentative that I would get the tractor there, Ketch took the serial number and started doing the research to find the harness for my machine.
I met Ketch yesterday (Saturday) and I'm very happy he'll be doing the work since he's been through this.
To refresh memories -- the biggest connector under my lower panel had 2 or 3 pins w/ corrosion on them (that was the only one -- all of the others are clean). I cleaned it out and put di-electric grease in, but the intermittent flasher problem came back. And -- great timing -- I went to start the machine to load on the trailer and when I turned the key to pre-heat, nothing for a moment, and then after a delay things came alive. So either the key switch is now getting flaky too or that harness connection is getting worse. It may have been having my hand on the key putting pressure getting ready to turn to "crank" position that made the connection.
Another thing that might have contributed is when I first got the machine the HST vent was clogged from a mud wasp nest and the HST would pressurize to the point where it would blow the HST check dipstick out and oil would stream 3 or 4 feet and hose down the dashboard. I figure oil is better than water from a corrosion standpoint -- but the keyswitch may be in trouble now too.
I told ketch to do full service (filters, HST oil change, engine oil change), replace the harness, and check out the key switch and if there's any doubt -- just replace and don't even think twice. If Kioti will take care of anything under warranty, that will be great. If not, I'll just look at it as an investment into making a reliable tractor and I think it's worth it. I've really put zero into the machine since purchasing 3 years ago in 2006 (other than normal service). My dealer Harvard power stopped carrying Kioti (too bad!! I'm right up the street from them now!!! bummer -- and Frank from Harvard was a great mechanic too). Frank figured out the mud wasp problem and took care of it free of charge. They offered to help get parts for me, but I think I'm going to purchase the rear 48" snowblower from Ken's in Swanzey to do some business with them and have a good setup since my new driveway is more than double my old one w/ plenty of area to clear.
Next projects are a LOT of treework (the '89 Husky 262XP my brother handed down to me has been a workhorse with the trees around here), probably some digging for patio installation and I'd like to build an outdoor fireplace so I can burn year around and get rid of the tons of pine and brush (sticks) all over the place (entire lot was woods to start). We've also got some trails around the area (neighborhood was a fruit orchard many years ago) and the Kioti and Husky will go a long way to maintaining them. Also planning on building a nice big shed to store the toys -- that's the one thing I miss from the old house.
I'll stop rambling and dig up some pictures to start a new thread showing the new place and a few hours of tree work w/ the boys.
Ketch said he's not busy with service, so I'm hoping the machine will be back in a week or two. Need her if there's any snow.
It's been many months since I posted here and it's been an insane year.
I've moved to Lancaster, MA after building a new house over the last 8 months and I'm excited since the new house is more worthy of the machine I have. My old house was 1 acre of land w/ an 80 foot driveway. New house is just over 2 acres w/ 200 foot driveway.
That leads to the reason I'm replying to this post. My machine has been doing well and the move prevented me from really getting her wiring harness fixed, but finally yesterday I loaded her up and drove 40 miles up to Ken's tractor.
I called Ketch and Bruce earlier in the week and even though it was tentative that I would get the tractor there, Ketch took the serial number and started doing the research to find the harness for my machine.
I met Ketch yesterday (Saturday) and I'm very happy he'll be doing the work since he's been through this.
To refresh memories -- the biggest connector under my lower panel had 2 or 3 pins w/ corrosion on them (that was the only one -- all of the others are clean). I cleaned it out and put di-electric grease in, but the intermittent flasher problem came back. And -- great timing -- I went to start the machine to load on the trailer and when I turned the key to pre-heat, nothing for a moment, and then after a delay things came alive. So either the key switch is now getting flaky too or that harness connection is getting worse. It may have been having my hand on the key putting pressure getting ready to turn to "crank" position that made the connection.
Another thing that might have contributed is when I first got the machine the HST vent was clogged from a mud wasp nest and the HST would pressurize to the point where it would blow the HST check dipstick out and oil would stream 3 or 4 feet and hose down the dashboard. I figure oil is better than water from a corrosion standpoint -- but the keyswitch may be in trouble now too.
I told ketch to do full service (filters, HST oil change, engine oil change), replace the harness, and check out the key switch and if there's any doubt -- just replace and don't even think twice. If Kioti will take care of anything under warranty, that will be great. If not, I'll just look at it as an investment into making a reliable tractor and I think it's worth it. I've really put zero into the machine since purchasing 3 years ago in 2006 (other than normal service). My dealer Harvard power stopped carrying Kioti (too bad!! I'm right up the street from them now!!! bummer -- and Frank from Harvard was a great mechanic too). Frank figured out the mud wasp problem and took care of it free of charge. They offered to help get parts for me, but I think I'm going to purchase the rear 48" snowblower from Ken's in Swanzey to do some business with them and have a good setup since my new driveway is more than double my old one w/ plenty of area to clear.
Next projects are a LOT of treework (the '89 Husky 262XP my brother handed down to me has been a workhorse with the trees around here), probably some digging for patio installation and I'd like to build an outdoor fireplace so I can burn year around and get rid of the tons of pine and brush (sticks) all over the place (entire lot was woods to start). We've also got some trails around the area (neighborhood was a fruit orchard many years ago) and the Kioti and Husky will go a long way to maintaining them. Also planning on building a nice big shed to store the toys -- that's the one thing I miss from the old house.
I'll stop rambling and dig up some pictures to start a new thread showing the new place and a few hours of tree work w/ the boys.
Ketch said he's not busy with service, so I'm hoping the machine will be back in a week or two. Need her if there's any snow.
malk315
Silver Member
I got the machine back from Gentleman Farmer (Ken's Tractor) of Swanzey, NH Saturday. I had to travel for the day job and it spent an extra week there.
I am very very happy and want to thank Ketch and Bruce for getting my machine back to brand-new condition w/ regards to electrical. Ketch replaced the two harnesses and did all of the service. He put di-electric grease in the connections under the lower panel to help keep moisture out.
Ketch also pulled apart the key switch and cleaned it all out (copper rings in there he's familiar with) which saved me $$$ from buying a new switch.
My machine is garaged, so I doubt I'll have anymore issues (it sat outside on the dealers' lot -- that's when it had the most exposure to water).
When I first started the machine to pick it up, I had no gas guage, no tail lights, brake lights, or hazards. It was obvious a plug was missed -- I had to take the machine (snow yesterday!) and Bruce felt bad, but he was ready to send ketch to my home to take care of it on Monday if I couldn't figure it out. When I got home it took me 30 seconds to find the plug under the right-hand footrest and plugged it in -- voila, 100% functioning everything. Simple error -- no problem. It's one leg of the main harness that takes all of the rear electrical to the back -- they have a simple automotive type connector on there w/ like 8 wires -- all clean and zero risk of getting wet where it's located, so no need for di-electric grease.
So I'm very psyched -- machine is finally 100% good to go.
Kioti would not warranty the harnesses, but it's not a big deal -- my machine was manufactured in 2004 and I bought it in 2006 and I haven't spent any major $$$ on it for 3 years. I'll be out of warranty soon. They should have really picked up the cost on it, but perhaps since I tried to diagnose and fix it myself they wouldn't warranty it. No problem -- I'm very much more familiar w/ the whole electrical setup and should be set from this point on.
Thinking about getting a 60" Meteor blower from Bruce/Ketch as soon as I can get some money together.
I am very very happy and want to thank Ketch and Bruce for getting my machine back to brand-new condition w/ regards to electrical. Ketch replaced the two harnesses and did all of the service. He put di-electric grease in the connections under the lower panel to help keep moisture out.
Ketch also pulled apart the key switch and cleaned it all out (copper rings in there he's familiar with) which saved me $$$ from buying a new switch.
My machine is garaged, so I doubt I'll have anymore issues (it sat outside on the dealers' lot -- that's when it had the most exposure to water).
When I first started the machine to pick it up, I had no gas guage, no tail lights, brake lights, or hazards. It was obvious a plug was missed -- I had to take the machine (snow yesterday!) and Bruce felt bad, but he was ready to send ketch to my home to take care of it on Monday if I couldn't figure it out. When I got home it took me 30 seconds to find the plug under the right-hand footrest and plugged it in -- voila, 100% functioning everything. Simple error -- no problem. It's one leg of the main harness that takes all of the rear electrical to the back -- they have a simple automotive type connector on there w/ like 8 wires -- all clean and zero risk of getting wet where it's located, so no need for di-electric grease.
So I'm very psyched -- machine is finally 100% good to go.
Kioti would not warranty the harnesses, but it's not a big deal -- my machine was manufactured in 2004 and I bought it in 2006 and I haven't spent any major $$$ on it for 3 years. I'll be out of warranty soon. They should have really picked up the cost on it, but perhaps since I tried to diagnose and fix it myself they wouldn't warranty it. No problem -- I'm very much more familiar w/ the whole electrical setup and should be set from this point on.
Thinking about getting a 60" Meteor blower from Bruce/Ketch as soon as I can get some money together.
Here are some similar links:
